Is Corpse Lance the most powerful build we have for Necromancer?

[TheAlmightyZugs 0]

So I have tried to play the Corpse Lance build:

https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/necromancer-corpse-lance-build-patch-2-6-4-season-16

But it is infuriating to play. I have to avoid enemies all the time, only engage elite packs, and most infuriating of all, I die way too much. The build itself is really not that fun to play. Sure it can be powerful to take down elites but I die every time I get hit at higher rifts. I have no idea how anyone is playing through rifts 70+ solo. 

So I have a question for you guys. Is Corpse Lance really the most powerful build the Necro can play? Could I take a Skeletal mage build into higher rifts and melt enemies just the same? Or are we really stuck with Corpse Lance being the most powerful? Could someone recommend any alternatives to CL? Something that is fun to play but powerful all the same? 

 

[Yolo 40]

On 3/2/2019 at 7:56 AM, TheAlmightyZugs said:

So I have tried to play the Corpse Lance build:

https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/necromancer-corpse-lance-build-patch-2-6-4-season-16

But it is infuriating to play. I have to avoid enemies all the time, only engage elite packs, and most infuriating of all, I die way too much. The build itself is really not that fun to play. Sure it can be powerful to take down elites but I die every time I get hit at higher rifts. I have no idea how anyone is playing through rifts 70+ solo. 

So I have a question for you guys. Is Corpse Lance really the most powerful build the Necro can play? Could I take a Skeletal mage build into higher rifts and melt enemies just the same? Or are we really stuck with Corpse Lance being the most powerful? Could someone recommend any alternatives to CL? Something that is fun to play but powerful all the same? 

 

I cannot give you a G.O.D. build, but please accept my honest advice.
Feel free to try out builds other than "Top Tier". They can prove to be very durable, which makes the game easier and - more importantly- faster! And in a game that is largely about farming, speed is something you shouldn't neglect.
Here's my story: I wanted to try out a Firebird Meteor Wizard because "they said" it's op as *the filter can't even handle this*. I got every piece out from shards and upgrade rares. I was decently equipped (full geared but no ancients or Caldessans or things like that) when i first decided to do a T13 Nephalem Rift. It was the most underwhelming experience i ever had. The main problem was: to get the Firebird Damage Reduction bonus, you have to Ignite 20 Enemies (or one elite). But i was geared to the point that i practically oneshot Elites with Ignite. I ended up dying in one or two hits of melee or ranged attacks. 
Later on, i was bored and got nothing to spend my shards on: I decided to make a Vyr Archon Wizard. I didn't expected too much from it, because what i experienced with Firebird. And it turned out pretty good! I even made more GR levels than with Firebird, way more easily. 
 

[Knutsanity 15]

Exactly Yolo. That's so true. End game builds are for end game. The exact stat priorities, and exact builds can be entirely not good enough offensively, defensively or sometimes both until you have lots of paragon, lots of experience with the game and build and play style for it. Sometimes the one missing piece you have is so important you should almost change the whole build until you've got it. Sometimes the one stat priority you ignored, or couldn't get a drop for, makes the whole build and play style come together better than you would've expected. 
I would have argued so many of the builds in so many ways as I've gone through the game, only to find out they are entirely right after a while. But again that's after more paragon, ancients, caldessans and experience to tweak and optimise my playstyle. That's for absolute maximum potential in GRifts, not necessarily for fun or for the majority of the game where you are either farming or doing easier Grifts than you have too because it still helps farm and upgrade leg gems, and you just aren't feelin it right now. Most of them are in need of balancing of more offence or more defence at the expense of the other, as it progresses through the levels. 
It's when you are getting close to GR lvl 100 or close to the builds maximum, that you really start to notice how much sense the end game suggestions make, right down to the stat priorities. 

Everyone got frustrated by many builds early on I'd have to think, for a Necro I wouldn't know what to suggest for early on as the easiest and best build for lower levels. Patience, personal preference and fun, experiments, soaking in the game, the classes, the enemies, the maps are essential. Slow progression is fun too. Progressing to GR lvl 120 is not the right goal until you've explored a bit. Paragon and a fairly filled up stash of awesome drops are really helpful to be able to tinker with and balance builds, and for following the endgame builds as well. I'm not very smart but certainly for me I need a lot of experience with a build before I start to see how it works and why the suggestions are what they are. And before reaching the optimal stats, lacking one stat can mean others are less useful and should be changed as well. 

It's just a massive game with a gazillion variables. I'm probably 300+ game hours in and I'm finally now ready to settle in and progress my builds of choice towards end game. That's with 1 of each of the 7 classes, but that's still a long long time. Not one of them is the suggested exact top builds. They are safer builds, to balance the defence, or freer in play style to not depend on exact skill rotation to stay alive and or kill. Or adjusted to what I like to do. Now it's time to work toward the end game suggestions on some of them, most of which I'm only recently capable of seeing how I'd want to play it, and understanding why it's better. But that will be slow too, exact ancient drops aren't dropping left right and center. Sadly I've likely lost some of them from underestimating certain rolls as well. And most of that will be stashed until I have enough of them to put together and be end game viable. 
If I'm dependant on cooldown skills for offence and/or defence, there is no sense sacrificing toughness or offence for cooldown little by little, If I need 60% cooldown and only have 20% I'll be better off with the toughness and offence until I have closer to 60%. Is the best example of that I can give. 

[CountCrouton 0]

I kinda prefer skeletal mage build but i take blood rush w/metabolism to avoid damage over command skeletons and use a two handed for the higher damage stat, i feel like command skeletons kinda falls off when elites start procing final service with 1-3 hits. Is jesseth skullshield/scythe that much more powerful than a 2 handed weapon?

[Knutsanity 15]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:56 AM, TheAlmightyZugs said:

So I have tried to play the Corpse Lance build:

https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/necromancer-corpse-lance-build-patch-2-6-4-season-16

But it is infuriating to play. I have to avoid enemies all the time, only engage elite packs, and most infuriating of all, I die way too much. The build itself is really not that fun to play. Sure it can be powerful to take down elites but I die every time I get hit at higher rifts. I have no idea how anyone is playing through rifts 70+ solo. 

So I have a question for you guys. Is Corpse Lance really the most powerful build the Necro can play? Could I take a Skeletal mage build into higher rifts and melt enemies just the same? Or are we really stuck with Corpse Lance being the most powerful? Could someone recommend any alternatives to CL? Something that is fun to play but powerful all the same? 

 

Looks like the LoN Command Skeleton has taken the top rank in Necro builds now. With using poison skills to stack damage from the scythe, and physical damage to help the thorns, and all gear having a thorns roll it sounds pretty powerful but slightly complicated. Plus if surviveability is your issue LoN is a solid build for that usually. In this case you get up to 52% dmg reduction from LoN, 50% from the curse belt, 50% from the Aquilla Cuirass, and since most ancients aren't too important to the build, getting an initial build of ancients with thorns wouldn't be as hard to come close to perfection as a lot of builds. So that's certainly an idea.  I don't know about fun to play, but as strong offensively and stronger defensively. Read all the pages for the build for the explanations of gear, stat and skill choices as well as how to play it. 

https://www.icy-veins.com/d3/necromancer-command-skeletons-build-with-lon-set-patch-2-6-4-season-16
 

On 3/16/2019 at 3:26 PM, CountCrouton said:

I kinda prefer skeletal mage build but i take blood rush w/metabolism to avoid damage over command skeletons and use a two handed for the higher damage stat, i feel like command skeletons kinda falls off when elites start procing final service with 1-3 hits. Is jesseth skullshield/scythe that much more powerful than a 2 handed weapon?

A 2 handed weapon is always better (All things being equal, most builds have legendary abilities that make 1 handers way better) when you have a build with a big dmg skill that attack speed can not take advantage of. If you are unable to spam your big dmg skill because you can't keep up resources no matter what, or if it's a cooldown skill, then for dmg a 2 hander is probably better. Even then you have to consider your generator regaining resource faster with higher attack speed though. I don't know, it's complicated. If you can spam no matter what a 2 hander may be better too, but only if you don't need the defence or attack speed, otherwise it's only slightly better for dmg and way worse for defence. 
For builds where you can spam your dmg skill no matter how fast the attack speed is, a one hander that attacks 1.5 times faster, makes up for the 2 hander doing 1.5 times more dmg right, and since 1 handers can incorporate an offhand, that's one more very big opportunity for more stats and another legendary ability. I'm finding 1 handers better for almost every build. Always used to use 2 handers at first. For the same reason, but once you max out your GR levels and make the switches you start to see all the reasons the one handers, its extra attack speed, stats and extra leg ability are better. For non sheild offhands, you even gain 4-6 hundred of that base dmg back that you lose from going to a one hander. Or dual wielding has great benefits and options for some classes. When the legendary abilities are important, it's not even close, 1 hander all the way, you can fit 3 leg abilities between the 2 hands and the cube.  Necro the least so, there is really only one decent off hand and it's for a command skeleton build. 
But I've done a complete 180, don't know if I'll ever wear another 2 hander that isn't entirely necessary for the build. Not even with the crusader. The only one I will and do keep a 2 hander is my leap/ seismic slam barb. It has unlimited fury, not much options for another leg ability to add to it, and it doesn't need any defence. I only use a furnace and the seismic slam buff for weapon slot leg abilities. If I switched I could only have one, and gain 2 more that aren't as appropriate for the build. But my offence would be almost as good from the attack speed, better if I dual wielded with a cold dmg sword. My defence would be way better with a shield, but it's not necessary. I'd consider the dual wield but technically I have to change to the set 2 hander when I get an ancient one anyway, and lose the furnace, cube the 2 hander I'm wearing. 
I've questioned most of these builds only to find out how correct they are once I get further along and wrap my head around them and their play styles. 

[Knutsanity 15]

On 3/16/2019 at 3:26 PM, CountCrouton said:

I kinda prefer skeletal mage build but i take blood rush w/metabolism to avoid damage over command skeletons and use a two handed for the higher damage stat, i feel like command skeletons kinda falls off when elites start procing final service with 1-3 hits. Is jesseth skullshield/scythe that much more powerful than a 2 handed weapon?

Also the jesseth's are only useful if you use command skel. Your mages will do 5X as much dmg to things you command your skels to attack. Way way way more than the 1.5X dmg a 2 hander will give you. 
The shield will provide more defence than blood rush. The 400% dmg to things your skeletons are commanded to attack will provide much more offence than a 2 hander. Just have to get used to commanding them. If you need even more defence replace something else with blood rush. But with skeletons attacking you should have the 50% dmg reduction from the rathmas set too, and not be in need of more defence. 

[CountCrouton 0]

1 hour ago, Knutsanity said:

Also the jesseth's are only useful if you use command skel. Your mages will do 5X as much dmg to things you command your skels to attack. Way way way more than the 1.5X dmg a 2 hander will give you. 
The shield will provide more defence than blood rush. The 400% dmg to things your skeletons are commanded to attack will provide much more offence than a 2 hander. Just have to get used to commanding them. If you need even more defence replace something else with blood rush. But with skeletons attacking you should have the 50% dmg reduction from the rathmas set too, and not be in need of more defence. 

guess ill have to dust off my jesseth pieces for gr 71, only been playing this game for like 2 weeks so still pretty new, thanks for the tip fam

[nakoda 0]

Never give up trying your favourite builds.

I have been working on an aberrant animator RGK build now for several seasons, and the recent LoN buff was huge. I hit rank 850 this season so far at gr90, which was a huge accomplishment for me, and the gear is no where near optimized yet, BUT ... it is SO much fun to rock around with skeles and a golem and not have to worry about ridiculous land of the dead cooldowns and dying everywhere. I feel like an old school raid tank. I kill slowly, but I hold aggro, take dmg, and the thorns is RGK.

I have a primal Andariel's Visage (Diamond)  and a primal Hellfire Ammy w/ Spreading Malediction.

I have ancient everything else: Spaulders of Zakara, Tasker and Theo, Aquila Curias, Nemesis Bracers, Dayntee's Binding, Golemskin Breeches, Litany of the Undaunted & Wailing Host, Tragoul's Fang (Topaz) , Illusory Boots, and Bone Ringer. 
- Use Topaz or Amethyst for int or vit if needed when your gear is incomplete.

I use Enforcer, Boyarsky's Chip, and the third gem I swap out as needed between Gizzard and Bane of the Trapped. I might be at the point where I need Bane of the Stricken.

In the cube is Releina's Shadowhook, Heart of Iron, and Wisdom of Kalan 

My skills are:

LM - Grim Scythe // Frost Scythe
RM - Command Golem // Bone Golem

1 - Command Skeletons // Dark Reaping - OP heal. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. 
2 - Bone Armor // Thy Flesh Sustained - 75% DR and 150% Regen? Yes pls. 
3 - Blood Rush // Metabolism - 2 chances are better than one, and this is a life saver. Worst movement skill in the game, tho.
4 - Frailty // Aura of Frailty - slowly being replaced with Scent of Blood for the increase in Pet dmg, but I am legit lazy and hate casting curses XD 

Passives: Blood is Power, Aberrant Animator, Eternal Torment, Commander of the Risen Dead

- Atk Spd buffs skele attack spd, Skeles count as Pets (patch 2.6) and therefore apply thorns on primary attacks. Typically, you command them to attack the champ, or pay attention to elites and just let them attack. They will stay on target infinitely (unless the target TELEPORTS .. any teleport will break command). Just keep an eye on them.
- Golem is basically just there for the 30% DR, but who doesn't like golems? and Bone Golem is great CC with the stun, gather, and 2000% weap dmg.
- It's not a complex build, just fun to play. Keep your skeles sicked on things for the sustained heal, toss your golem around every refresh, and swing your scythe to keep the atk spd buffed. 
- Some fights just suck. Period. Dopey elites, champs, and RGs that just stand there swinging once every two seconds are painful. Goblins will make you want to /wrists. Bring friends. Thorns only works when things HIT you.
- On the other hand, some fights you'll be wondering wtf happened everything died so fast. Perdition is a great example, his big AOE swing hits all your pets and he essentially one shots himself. 
- they say thorns is supposed to be just a flat amount on every hit, but I have a suspicion it scales: for example, Hamelin's AOE should burn him instantly as it ticks off of every one of my pets, but he takes forever to kill, but Perdition, as mentioned, one shots himself. 

look up my profile in game, I hate d3planner. 

 

Now, that all being said: You are absolutely right. Necro is severely underpowered compared to other classes BECAUSE our only way to complete is to sacrifice any playability for pure min/max dmg potential like the Poison build or Lance build. 

Give my build a try though, I think it's super fun. 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by kungfukappa

[nakoda 0]

I am working on a variant of the build that swaps out Tasker for Moribund Gauntlets, and Heart of Iron in the cube for Grasps of Essence. I then replace Aquila on the torso with Heart of Iron (phasing out Aquila). FInally, swap out Nems for Reaper's Wraps.

This way, I drop Grim Scythe and put Frailty // Scent of Blood on LM, move Golem // Bone Golem to 4, and then add Corpse Explosion // Final Embrace to RM.

Then, you'll swap out Eternal Torment for Life From Death to compliment the Reaper's Wraps and replace your Essence regen from Scythe.

I am hoping the added Corpse damage increases my DPS more overall than the loss of the Tasker affix.

Edited March 18, 2019 by kungfukappa