HASTE OR CRIT?

[cheguevarra 0]

why all of a sudden mrrobot started to suggest a haste reforge again for dw dks? all my gear has mastery, so, granted there is no reforging into mastery. however the ctit is above haste in stat weights, but mrrobot pushes me to reforge into haste instead of crit. WHY?

  

 

     THANK YOU IN ADVANCE. CHEG.

[Oltier 471]

Probably it has something to do with this recent change to the following specs:

 

•  Death Knight

  • Frost

    •  Icy Talons now increases melee attack speed by 45% (up from 30%).
  • Unholy

    •  Unholy Might now increases Strength by 35% (up from 25%).

Although I will let a DK moderator confirm it as well

[Storm 426]

As far as I know Mastery is still best for DW, but it could have something to do with the 10% buff to icy talons, maybe there's some new breakpoint, but DW is pretty much resource capped by default if you do your rotation right, so I don't know.

[Zagam 1,982]

My basic theorycrafting and math skills say that if something is passively given an additional 15% Haste, that means additional Haste would have less benefit.  Here's the proving math:

 

1% Haste off of a 1 second swing would give a new swing time of 1/(1+.01) = 1/1.01 = .99

10% Haste off of a 1 second swing would give a new swing time of 1/(1+.1) = 1/1.1 = .91

20% Haste ... = 0.833

30% Haste ... = 0.769

40% Haste ... = 0.714

 

The time removed going from 0% to 10% is 0.09 seconds.

The time removed going from 10% to 20% is 0.077 seconds.

The time removed going from 20% to 30% is 0.064 secoinds.

The time removed going from 30% to 40% is 0.055 secoinds.

 

You can see that Haste incurs what we call "diminishing returns" in that each successive point of Haste returns less and less benefit.  This works with all classes and is why most classes have Haste caps or thresholds.  Mastery, on the other hand, with almost every class works linearly.  I believe DK's increases frost damage.  It never has DR, which is why Mastery is so good.  This is also why Haste tends to be incredible early in expansions and less so later (because you gain so much of it). 

 

I'm not confirming or denying what AMR is doing, but my guess is that Frost's additional passive gain of 15% Haste makes Crit more valuable per point because you're likely hitting the point where you're either resource capped or the diminishing return effect has kicked in to make it worth less.  Hopefully this explanation isn't too confusing.

[Storm 426]

There are a couple reason I can think of for the change, but I haven't done any math to confirm, this is just rough observations.

 

- Without any haste the Tier 16 2 piece drops often (at least for me, my dps set is 566, but I certainly don't play the spec in the top 10% or anything). maybe the extra emphasis on haste is to make sure the 2-piece has 100% uptime for the full 5000 mastery bonus.

 

long shot:

- There's some new breakpoint nobody ever considered, and if you get like 125% haste you're now capable of doing something insane like ignoring unholy runes and just spamming howling blast and frost strike without ever stopping. (unlikely, but weirder things have happened)

[Ceraius 34]

That longshot kinda reminded me of this. http://www.destinysoftworks.com/2013/10/mastersimple-vs-mastercomplicated.html

 

I wonder...

Edited January 8, 2014 by Ceraius

[drumsmani 47]

Also, Mendenbarr's latest post talks about stat priorities following the recent buffs. In particular, he says for DW, haste is still the worst stat although not by much. Maybe AMR code has been updated based on similar analysis. I play a 2h DK, so haven't run into this issue yet. 

 

http://www.destinysoftworks.com/2014/01/jan-6th-hotfixesnews.html

 

For reference, his original 5.4 post with the stat priorities then: http://www.destinysoftworks.com/2013/09/everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-54.html

[cheguevarra 0]

in the past the moderators from here were able to speak with AMR ppl and get things corrected. especially when it comes from mendenbar.... they may have to redo that haste suggestion and get crit instead.

 

     love all the responces.    Cheg.

[Omnae 8]

Are you sure you are using the default settings? Currently AMR as crit at 2.4 and haste at 2.3 therefor if yours is reforging haste you may be using a customized setting and not the default.

[cheguevarra 0]

im not using customised settings, sir

[Drtain 74]

I can't say for 100%, but I know that honestly when I use to be dw I had like 80-90% up time on my 2 set (granted i had alot fo haste gear) reforging into crit not haste. But I would assume it has something to do with that to maybe keep 100% like someone said a few replies up, but I would honestly say go for crit over haste if you find you self never going rune starved most high ilvl dw fdks are doing this and so was I (at 561 ilvl). 

[Drtain 74]

I should say haste and mastery gear.

[Jagatron 0]

Haste is still usable, just til a certain point.  I personally prefer my haste at about 5k, it leaves me with little to no down time and enough resources without capping.  

 

2h prefers more haste than dw and for both sub specs you stack enough haste so that you have no down time and so that you're not capping resources.

 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hydraxis/Jagatron/