Resto Shaman vs Sha Heroic

[Pandacho 286]

Hello guys

Today our 10-men will try Sha HM for the first time. And we have two healers assigned for this - me (resto sham) and holy pala.

Do you have some tips for talents/glyphs/healing style for Sha HM specifically? It is totally faceroll on NM, but i understand that on HM it's different.

My character: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/argent-dawn/Pandacho/advanced

Our wipes on Galakras HM http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/37xyme9zmt46dm54/sum/healingDone/

 

I got the cloak and the ring on last CD and didn't manage my reforges yet.

So another questions about reforging:

1. i used to sit on 11500 (40%) haste for 2 ticks of HTT, should i drop it to  7650 (30%) and get some crit instead of it?

2. with all the reforges back and forth, i have a little mess now with my stats. Would it be better to return the spirit to my gear and to use pure stats gems instead of reforging spirit from gear and using mixed gems? or it doesn't matter?

[Stoove 347]

1. i used to sit on 11500 (40%) haste for 2 ticks of HTT, should i drop it to  7650 (30%) and get some crit instead of it?

 

100% yes. Totem ticks (due to server magic) don't always happen on time, so when you're at a breakpoint you're just as likely not to get the extra tick. This is why I discourage people from taking the Healing Stream Totem breakpoints.

 

2. with all the reforges back and forth, i have a little mess now with my stats. Would it be better to return the spirit to my gear and to use pure stats gems instead of reforging spirit from gear and using mixed gems? or it doesn't matter?

 

I think you're gearing pretty well at the moment. Dropping to the 30% breakpoint should free up a lot of stats for you to put into Crit or Mastery. As we have just established in another thread, when you're gearing Crit or Mastery it's better to take hybrid gems in your Red slots. I suggest using Ask Mr Robot's custom stat weight editor and using the settings I use, which you can find on the same thread I just linked.

 

 

Do you have some tips for talents/glyphs/healing style for Sha HM specifically? It is totally faceroll on NM, but i understand that on HM it's different.

 

Tips in brief:

1. Forget everything you know about the Sha fight. It's completely different on Heroic.
2. Use Healing Rain as much as possible, despite people spreading out.
3. Don't glyph Chain Heal, you need it for the burst.
4. You need a cooldown on every Swelling Pride. They hurt like hell. Top people off beforehand, that will make it easier. Get your raid using raidwalls where possible. Spirit Link Totem is awesome for this.
5. There's a lot of regular but small movement to stay out of the bad. It's frustrating, but important.
6. The dispels are super-important. Communicate with your healer buddy when one of you has missed a dispel. You can afford to dispel the odd debuff out of turn.
7. The DPS have to soak rifts very often. If they head out before they're dispelled, that is a mistake. Believe me, you can't compensate for both the debuff and a soak. They hurt too much.

That's what I learned from my group's wipes on Heroic Sha. There is a lot going on in that fight, but you can do it with your setup (we run Shaman+Paladin, too).

 

I hope that helps! I'll share more tips when I get them, and if you kill it make sure to tell us what helped most!

[Pandacho 286]

Thank you very much, Stoove.

it's better to take hybrid gems in your Red slots. I suggest using Ask Mr Robot's custom stat weight editor

I did this in the morning and Mr Robot just changed most of my gems to Int ones.... My current weights are: Int=1, SP=0.85, Spirit (to 12000)=0.75, Haste (to 7613)=0.7, Crit=0.45, Mastery=0.4, Haste (after 7613)=0.4

 

If i don't glyph Chain Heal, then what to glyph? Riptide and...? Water shield for mana? Cleansing waters for dispel?

Should i stick in talents to Ancestral Swiftness and Primal Elem or to switch them to Elem Mastery and Un.Fury for this specific fight?

Edited January 9, 2014 by Trollsha

[Ceraius 34]

We regularly do this fight with a shaman healer and here's my two cents from what i've gathered.

 

The damage intake of the raid is pretty unusual here. Its very boring to heal outside any special circumstances. Swelling Pride is the biggest factor for damage intake. Another dangerous contributor are the prisons. Those hurt a lot, and while it is a priority to free them asap, its good to be aware that they deal loads of damage.

 

The DoT (which's name I don't remember) is another point of interest. If anyone gets a 2nd stack dispel them immediately regardless of Gift of the Titans. This shouldn't happen a lot but it might. A 2 stack debuff + prison/swelling pride/anything is very, very dangerous. We lost some people to this when we were progressing.

 

As Stoove already said, the Swellings need some cooldowns. Coordinate these with your co-healer. HTT is very good for this as if popped slightly in advance it will top the raid for it and help recovering. Also do not forget the importance of DPS player's cooldowns. We're using a very quick AMZ stack sometimes for the Swelling Pride, which works well also.

 

Kind of related to the Swelling Pride, be very aware of your pride levels and always know what effect the Swelling will have for you. As an example, I don't think our raid ever got any Projections until HC mode, so some weren't prepared to deal with those, which caused some hairyness.

 

For point 7 in Stoove's post, we have every raidmember soak the rifts when possible including tanks and healers. We have reserved the closest rifts for the healers, since they cant afford to move around as much as others.

[Stoove 347]

Kind of related to the Swelling Pride, be very aware of your pride levels and always know what effect the Swelling will have for you. As an example, I don't think our raid ever got any Projections until HC mode, so some weren't prepared to deal with those, which caused some hairyness.

 

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Pride is extremely important to manage, but you should be managing it well enough by staying out of the crap on the floor and executing the mechanics well. When it comes to dispels, if it's needed don't stop to worry about your pride. Raider's life > 5 Pride.

 

The damage intake of the raid is pretty unusual here. Its very boring to heal outside any special circumstances.

 

It's very stressful for us almsot all the time, largely because our roster is short on healers and my Paladin buddy hasn't got most Normal gear yet. If it really is that boring, I will know in a couple of weeks once we're back into the swing of Heroics.

 

 

For point 7 in Stoove's post, we have every raidmember soak the rifts when possible including tanks and healers. We have reserved the closest rifts for the healers, since they cant afford to move around as much as others.

 

We do, too, but healers/tanks tend to be more aware of their HP when they go to soak. My point was more that the DPS need to be aware, and if they aren't they need to be berated. Healers tend to put off soaking for a few seconds if the healing is high - again, Raider's life > soaking immediately.

 

Crit=0.45

 

There's the problem! What this tells Mr Robot is that 2 Crit < 1 Int, so he gems for Intellect. If you put 0.55, 2 Crit > 1 Int and he gems for Crit. Check the picture I posted in that other thread for the stat weights I use - that gems for Crit. For more in-depth insight on this, check out Krazyito's thread.

 

 

If i don't glyph Chain Heal, then what to glyph? Riptide and...? Water shield for mana? Cleansing waters for dispel?

Should i stick in talents to Ancestral Swiftness and Primal Elem or to switch them to Elem Mastery and Un.Fury for this specific fight?

 

You don't *have* to glyph anything. I would actually suggest Fire Elemental, Riptide, and Cleansing Waters because that's what seemed to work well for me. I would recommend sticking with the talents you mentioned.

 

Thank you very much, Stoove.

 

I don't often get explicit thanks! <3

[Ceraius 34]

 

It's very stressful for us almsot all the time, largely because our roster is short on healers and my Paladin buddy hasn't got most Normal gear yet. If it really is that boring, I will know in a couple of weeks once we're back into the swing of Heroics.

 

We do, too, but healers/tanks tend to be more aware of their HP when they go to soak. My point was more that the DPS need to be aware, and if they aren't they need to be berated. Healers tend to put off soaking for a few seconds if the healing is high - again, Raider's life > soaking immediately.

 

I'm just going by what our healers say :P   And while I'm not staring at raidframes constantly as a tank, I don't really see anyone dipping outside Swelling and Prison.

 

Yes, healers and tanks tend to be more aware of health in general, but from a tank PoV the damage the boss does is ridiculously low especially considering its a heroic boss. I don't think I've ever dropped below 80% health in the 100%-30% range unless I've failed timing AMS for Swelling. Hell, I'm rarely even dropping my Blood Shield unless the timer runs out, but almost never on damage.

 

Quick guide to Sha heroic: Keep an eye on the boss timers. :P

[Stoove 347]

I'm just going by what our healers say   And while I'm not staring at raidframes constantly as a tank, I don't really see anyone dipping outside Swelling and Prison.

 

Yes, healers and tanks tend to be more aware of health in general, but from a tank PoV the damage the boss does is ridiculously low especially considering its a heroic boss. I don't think I've ever dropped below 80% health in the 100%-30% range unless I've failed timing AMS for Swelling. Hell, I'm rarely even dropping my Blood Shield unless the timer runs out, but almost never on damage.

 

Agree, I mostly forget our tanks are there.

 

 

Quick guide to Sha heroic: Keep an eye on the boss timers.

 

Many timers. Extra look. Much confuse. Wow.

[Pandacho 286]

I don't often get explicit thanks! <3

Why not? You are doing an awesome work here.

[Stoove 347]

Why not? You are doing an awesome work here.

 

Thanks!  =]  I guess mostly people get wrapped up in the solution, or argue with me. I always smile when people thank the hard work Kitsu, Krakir and I do. It makes the job worth it. :) 

[kitsu 55]

My ten 3 healed our first kill with a mistweaver doing 120k dps, we were a little high on pride but no one turned to monsters.

 

the extra heal cd made it easier, but now we just 2 heal it since everyone's gotten a few upgrades since our first kill. 

[Pandacho 286]

So we tried Heroic Sha today and it was BAD. I just don't know where to start, so i'll post the logs and would appreciate any suggestions.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z836yii5t0j4bsnx/sum/healingDone/

i didn't use HR in this fight because we were too spread out, but may be it worth a try even with 70% overheal...

We tried to group on first attempts but it was too much damage on the raid.

[Stoove 347]

Well don't feel so bad, we wiped endlessly on Sha Heroic last night too! ^__^

 

I took your longest wipe and mine and ran them through comparebot together. The main thing I noticed, as you said, is the lack of Healing Rain and the healing that goes with it. This is the way we tend to form up on the boss; loosely spread out around his side.

 

 

This works really well for us since we get lots of AoE healing, from Healing Rain and Holy Radiance, etc.

 

Looking at your logs, I think that losing that AoE healing is what's wiping you. We're doing over 100k HPS each on that fight usually, you guys are doing significantly less. I'd suggest that part of the reason you found being close together difficult is due to not having enough practice soaking the rifts and staying out of the bad.

 

Another thing I notice is that you're not dropping Healing Stream Totem as often as I am. If you're spread out, you really do want to be using it on cooldown on this fight!

 

How were you organizing your raid cooldowns? We had two Devotion Auras so our rotation went like;

1. Tank Devo
2. Healer Devo
3. Healing Tide and Spirit Link
4. Tank Devo
5. Healer Devo and my 4-pc set bonus
6. Usually didn't have any cooldowns left by then

Ascendance I saved for emergencies. It seemed to work well for us; we got him to 5mil last night and only wiped on our final attempt because my keybinds stopped working, Frustrating! :)

 

Does that help?

[Ceraius 34]

Question, if you allow.

 

How are you guys handling the Reflection adds?

 

I'm sure I could find this in the logs somewhere, but I'm good at logging and uploading, and bad at reading them :P

[Stoove 347]

How are you guys handling the Reflection adds?

 

Our tanks pick them up and AoE them down on their own. Towards the end when they become too much for the tanks on their own, the DPS join in. We get misdirects to our tanks to help gather them up :)

[Pandacho 286]

How are you guys handling the Reflection adds?

Our tanks pick them up and AoE them down on their own.

This!

 

 

How were you organizing your raid cooldowns? 

1. HTT+spirit link+Devotion Aura (healer)

2. Holy pala CD+ Devotion Aura (tank)

3. Ascendance+4T16 bonus

4. Holy pala CD

--Tranquility from feral druid after 30%---

5. HTT+spirit link+Devotion Aura (healer)

6. Holy pala CD+ Devotion Aura (tank)

 

We never did more than 50% oh boss, so i don't know how it will be after 4th CD...

 

At first we tried the same arrangement as on your picture and people were just instantly dying in all this mess, so that no healing was able to manage this. Just 100%-20%-dead, 100%-30%-dead. And i didn't have a chance to use my AG, so i dropped it and took HST talent and we spread out too. And i didn't use HR, 'cos there were no chance to catch more then one, accidentally two persons in its range...

 

Another thing I notice is that you're not dropping Healing Stream Totem as often as I am. 

It really surprises me, because i drop it automatically, without thinking, just pressing Q, but i'll check it, thanks.

 

What i noticed in logs, that the most of people were dying from the Mark of Arrogance. i dispelled on CD, no matter with or without gift, but it was just not enough...

I think to ask everybody to use healthstones on Swelling Pride and to use their personal CDs when i have my dispel on CD.

And i think to use my Earth Shield and Pala's Beacon on our dying damagers, not on tanks, 'cos tanks are not affected by the Mark.

And may be to ask our Shadow Priest to use her Shield on some raiders with Mark. What do you think Stoove, does this worth it?

[Stoove 347]

At first we tried the same arrangement as on your picture and people were just instantly dying in all this mess, so that no healing was able to manage this. Just 100%-20%-dead, 100%-30%-dead. And i didn't have a chance to use my AG, so i dropped it and took HST talent and we spread out too. And i didn't use HR, 'cos there were no chance to catch more then one, accidentally two persons in its range...

 

This sounds like a massive failure on mechanics to me. If you're spread out but fairly close like I described, then if you're avoiding the bad you shouldn't be taking that much damage. I know for a fact that any DPS who gets that kind of damage is doing something badly wrong. I'd suggest it was probably not looking out for the bad on the floor that you have to move out of, which is called Unstable Corruption. If you look again in the comparebot parse I linked, you'll see that my damage taken (per second) from that was getting on for 1/10th of yours! Staying out of that is really key to winning the fight, and your DPS don't have an excuse for not avoiding it.

 

1. HTT+spirit link+Devotion Aura (healer)

2. Holy pala CD+ Devotion Aura (tank)

3. Ascendance+4T16 bonus

4. Holy pala CD

--Tranquility from feral druid after 30%---

5. HTT+spirit link+Devotion Aura (healer)

6. Holy pala CD+ Devotion Aura (tank)

 

Fantastic rotation! Though I'd swap around 1. and 3. so that you can Ascendance on 5 and HTT+SLT on 6, That worked really well when I tried it.

 

And i didn't have a chance to use my AG, so i dropped it and took HST talent and we spread out too. And i didn't use HR, 'cos there were no chance to catch more then one, accidentally two persons in its range...

 

You did right there. I was finding that the burst from AG was too hard to use effectively with all the movement. I definitely recommend Rushing Streams for this fight. Relatedly...

 

It really surprises me, because i drop it automatically, without thinking, just pressing Q, but i'll check it, thanks.

 

Odd, but when I look at the log parse I linked you definitely didn't get as many heals per minute from it as I did - not even close! If you want to pick a better try than your longest one, I'll have a closer look again.

 

What i noticed in logs, that the most of people were dying from the Mark of Arrogance. i dispelled on CD, no matter with or without gift, but it was just not enough...

I think to ask everybody to use healthstones on Swelling Pride and to use their personal CDs when i have my dispel on CD.

And i think to use my Earth Shield and Pala's Beacon on our dying damagers, not on tanks, 'cos tanks are not affected by the Mark.

And may be to ask our Shadow Priest to use her Shield on some raiders with Mark. What do you think Stoove, does this worth it?

 

Mark of Arrogance rarely kills people on it's own, it usually just finishes off someone who'se already done something silly (like stand in the bad, or soak a rift at the wrong time). I wouldn't recommend dispelling on cooldown - wait for the buff, THEN dispel on cooldown. Obviously, prioritize people with 2 stacks. You can keep people mostly free of the debuffs if you're both working well, while maintaining low Pride.

 

Not so sure about the ES idea, I can't help feeling that the GCD used swapping would be better spent casting a heal.

 

Honestly, I'd get your DPS to concentrate on the mechanics of the fight rather than helping you heal. Our raid tries this, too. I have to tell them that until they're executing their job perfectly they should forget about trying to do my job as well.

[Pandacho 286]

Thank you very much Stoove (i would not die to say it one more time  )

i just gave to myself the prize "Moron of the year" :-/

Edited January 10, 2014 by Trollsha

[kitsu 55]

just to make sure, and it was unclear to people in my group as well:

 

the rift looks like a white scar on the ground. the rifts constantly lob a shot up in the air that falls down where a blue circle is drawn. never be in a blue circle. you have to run to the white scars when you dont have a debuff. running over a scar will close it and give you a debuff that prevents you from closing another for 60 sec. towards teh end of the fight it is unlikely that you will be able to stand still for long. more rifts open than can be closed.

[Stoove 347]

Yep!

 

If you want a WeakAuras2 string to track the rift debuff, I can share it here. It's even supposed to make a sound when  the debuff runs out! :)

 

Also: If you want us to know a post was particularly helpful, make sure to click "Like This" in the bottom right-hand corner, and we'll try to post more like that :)

[Pandacho 286]

Yep!

 

If you want a WeakAuras2 string to track the rift debuff, I can share it here. It's even supposed to make a sound when  the debuff runs out!

This one? http://voximmortalis.com/wiki/WeakAuras_SiegeOfOrgrimmar

[Stoove 347]

I've never seen that before, I made my own :)

[Pandacho 286]

So would you share it please? Thanks 

I was really bothered when you said that my HST does not have 100% uptime. So now i have to figure out how to do big flashy icons in WA showing me that it's a time to drop the totem... And the same for dispels. Actually, for every CD to flash a big icon in the middle of my screen for 1 sec. and to fade... I have all the CD addons and timers but many times just don't look at them in fight.

My current UI: 

Edited January 11, 2014 by Trollsha

[Stoove 347]

I'll post a pic of my UI later to show you just how obvious my WA2 strings are. I always had the same problem, so I made them impossible to ignore. I have less free screenspace, but I play better as a result :)

[Pandacho 286]

i just spent 4 hours playing wiith WA, but did not achieve my goals :-/

i was able to create auras, which shows me when HST or SBT are absent in fight, but i can't understand how to make them shown only when they are absent AND not on CD.

i tried to create the one-sec. big flashy icon in the middle of my screen to show me that CD just refreshed, and succeded at first, but after reload something went wrong and they just stacked on the screen no matter what i was doing...

[Stoove 347]

I'll see what I can do. I have time to play around now! :)