blizzard US Senator Seeks to Ban Loot Boxes & Pay-to-Win Microtransactions

[Manbearpig 28]

Dunno why my post looks so weird.

[gerbercage 15]

Lootbox one things. Now there are some bundle store start pushing out those gamble bundle/key

Some let you spend US$2.00 then got chance to win AAA game. Some let you spend something like US$9.99 then you can get 10 random keys (got random cheap game and sometime AAA game)

These 2 should ban in game market especially for kids.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

Do you plan on banning "blind boxes"?  Theyve existed, legally, for years.  Are they being banned too, because theyre 100% marketed for kids.  My son loves them.
 

Obviously you have absolutly no idea about how a brain works. How addiction works.

(Extremly short summary) It is a combination of light, sound and expectations/hopes that trigger the brain. And how fast you get the result of your action.

That's why a slot machine is much more addictive then a lottery e.g.

BTW: You didn't answer my questions, you just called it bullshit. The last line of defense of someone who has absolutly no solid evidence for his point of view. Yeah, the drug is a little exaggerated. It's a stilistic method.

The question about the slot machine in Kindergarten and if children should get the same punishment if they do something against the law compared to an adult are no exaggeration at all.

A slotmachine works identically like a lootbox, it aims to trigger the same meachanisms. But again, to realize that you need to have a little understanding about neurology. Or you could read some articles about this topic.

 

But I will not waste anymore time on you. In a discussion I expect at least a little knowledge about the topic that is disucced. If the other doesn't have that, it is just a waste of time.

[Baharok 234]

4 hours ago, Manbearpig said:

where you MUST buy something (be it lootboxes or ingame currency or whatever) to keep up with other players

i dont have much time at this hour, since RL needs me, but for now : 

You really think there is a MUST in WoW to keep up with other players ? I have never used any kind of boost in this game, NEVER and still perform better than alot people which call themselves good and ahead. And i dont even invest that much time anymore in this game. Its all about - learn your class, enhance with it and you have easy time getting into m+ groups for example. 

 

And the next thing is - only because you say the token is the reason - no its not. People allways found any ways to grab money or virtual currrency of others, even if the ways are ethically rude.  The problem isnt really with that token, its with the customer using it on unintended way and ofc boosters which say that they boost for gold, but instead just use grey zones to avoid "we want money". There were alot bans in the past, also with so called pro guilds, which boosted for real money and that was before the token, with conversations on Skype and so on.

 

Noone really needs to get boosted and ofc with the big time of goldsellers, that topic didnt came up, because it was a illegal trading. 

 

If you ever played Diablo 2 for example - it was one of the games with a black market you cannot imagine. WHAT should Blizzard / any company, do to avoid such stuff ? They simply cant, at least not in a multiplayer universe where one of the aspects is trading. The only real way to "fix" that would be to turn off trading completely and bring in stuff like - "you only can get drops, if you are part of this guild / group or be in this group with a specific ID for X time" Who would play the game then ? For me defending boosting for yourself is the same as Mafia saying "We do it because we know ways and the government has to fix it" - You sureley can ask yourself now - How should they fix it ? They are like rats and will survive everything.

 

Other examples of REAL "Pay to Win" games : Metin 2, Runes of Magic, Battlefront 2 (i dont know the state how it is now, but i know how it started with this star cards and so on). I will repeat it - a player to player service is trading. It is currency for time. The booster still need to invest time for the service they are offering. You dont buy items, you buy a service with the possibility to get a item. Even in your Wikipedia quote you allready got your definition. 

 

The last one is also the worst, since its a buy to play and then turns into that with those cards. The others are free to play games. So big difference is that you DONT need any kind of boost and so on in WoW to keep up with other players. You are able to reach everything without a boost. Its just lazy people with to much money use offerings of other people which dont care what they are doing to this community. You also could say : clever use of possibilities and supporting cheaters.

 

And dont get me wrong - boosted people and boosters dont affect me directly, i got a raidgroup and mythic+ groups myself, Also i would never invite a high item level dude to my group if i see that he obviously got boosted, since the mentallity of such people is often requestable.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Baharok

[revjiggs1 0]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:31 PM, Manbearpig said:

I just did.

Again which of these features allows you to have an advantage over other players ? 

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 5/13/2019 at 12:13 PM, Manbearpig said:

you can buy runs of high end content

...OF WHICH you are not guaranteed anything.  

If your definition of P2W is awfully different from how pay to win is generally described.

You seem to be including anything that could even increase your CHANCE to POTENTIALLY move ahead faster.  Like paying for mythic runs with gold you got from selling a game time token.

You arent guaranteed anything from those runs, Unless you count the ONE piece from a keystone chest guaranteed every week.  

Thats a pretty low ROI for a pay to "win" scenario, IMO.  "pay to potentially get slightly faster individual pieces, or potentially only one piece after spending like 30 bucks on a token" 

Facts are great, when theyre all available.  

Just saying "you can get gold for cash and get runs" is a fact, but the other facts like nothing being guaranteed, and pricing being a gating issue are also facts that make yours less germane to what we're talking about here.  Which is pay to WIN.

[JestersTear 1]

On 5/13/2019 at 9:48 AM, PatrickHenry said:

Its no different than the 'BAKE THE CAKE' issue with gay marriage IMO.  Why would you want someone who hates you and wants to provide you with little to no service, to give you service??  It makes no sense.

Very different, please educate yourself.  The reason we have laws like this are because those businesses take advantage of government services paid for by all taxpayers, thus all taxpayers should have access to their services.  Furthermore, what if a particular business was the only business of that type in the area?  That's why we have blanket laws like this instead of going "oh, ok, there's another business within X miles so it's ok if this one is run by bigots."

[PatrickHenry 293]

3 hours ago, JestersTear said:

Very different, please educate yourself.  The reason we have laws like this are because those businesses take advantage of government services paid for by all taxpayers, thus all taxpayers should have access to their services.  Furthermore, what if a particular business was the only business of that type in the area?  That's why we have blanket laws like this instead of going "oh, ok, there's another business within X miles so it's ok if this one is run by bigots."

Because someone else can start their own business and take the profits from the 'bigot' business?

Its basic economics. 

If you're not happy with someone's work, go elsewhere.  

If there's nowhere else to go, you'd rather give your money to a bigot than pay more or start your own business?  Thats your call.

ETA: Taxpayer 'services' arent going to change this 'bigots' heart, so in the end youre making him take your money.  

I know that's my goal in life, make sure people I disagree with get my money.  Or not.

Edited May 16, 2019 by PatrickHenry

[chronoblip 3]

On 5/13/2019 at 2:49 PM, BladeBraver said:

That would require releasing, and maintaining, multiple variations of a single game, not to mention each port, which would also have to be split.  You're literally doubling the work required purely due to ideology.

No thanks.

Games are already fragmented in their development and support due to localization efforts for various global markets. The work on WoW for China is an example that involved much more than just translating. If a developer doesn't want to meet the requirements of a potential market, they don't have to sell their game in that market, unless they're being driven by a greedy financial ideology that demands behaviors which are ultimately unsustainable, because they're trying to make everyone happy and everyone has some amount of mutually exclusive conditions for their happiness.

Ideology is already deeply involved, the controversy is which one shall rule them all.

That is why I indicated that, as is demonstrated quite clearly by the passion in this thread, people have very different opinions on the topic. The reason there is any real conflict between posters is because, should only one opinion be allowed for all, the various opinions will fight until one destroys or dominates the rest.

It's the forcing of a shared space, a shared market, where everybody has to be served, that creates conflict where none would otherwise exist at all, just because people have different convictions. Game companies, let alone bakers, could much more easily decide which markets they really wanted to serve with their products, and which were simply going to be a waste of their time.

The prevailing ideology right now with western AAA publishers is that all untapped markets are actual lost sales, and so they must reduce their games to the least common denominator so they can release to as many markets as possible, spending tons of money in the process, on the hopes they'll make it back, which is simply not sustainable at all.

Fracturing the markets, one way or another, would keep to the industry alive, even if only at the indie level, because then the focus is required to return to serving specific markets well, instead of all markets poorly.

[PatrickHenry 293]

58 minutes ago, chronoblip said:

The prevailing ideology right now with western AAA publishers is that all untapped markets are actual lost sales, and so they must reduce their games to the least common denominator so they can release to as many markets as possible, spending tons of money in the process, on the hopes they'll make it back, which is simply not sustainable at all.

that right there is really the basic foundation of all business.  You take a risk and succeed or fail.  

As long as nobody was FORCED to buy it, or forced not to buy it, it was fair and square and you take what you get.  Nobody had to do it, they chose to, or chose not to.  

It provides the best service to the consumer because they get to decide what they want, and the best ideas that serve them will get the profit, the worst ideas (that dont serve the customers) will fail.  

[JestersTear 1]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:51 PM, PatrickHenry said:

Because someone else can start their own business and take the profits from the 'bigot' business?

Its basic economics. 

If you're not happy with someone's work, go elsewhere.  

If there's nowhere else to go, you'd rather give your money to a bigot than pay more or start your own business?  Thats your call.

ETA: Taxpayer 'services' arent going to change this 'bigots' heart, so in the end youre making him take your money.  

I know that's my goal in life, make sure people I disagree with get my money.  Or not.

That was a load of pure ignorance.  Someone can not always just start their own business.  Not to mention, let's say someone does, but the majority in the area is bigoted and still supports the bigot, causing the other business to fail?

Get your head out of your *filtered* and get educated on things before spouting off.

[PatrickHenry 293]

6 hours ago, JestersTear said:

That was a load of pure ignorance.  Someone can not always just start their own business.  Not to mention, let's say someone does, but the majority in the area is bigoted and still supports the bigot, causing the other business to fail?

Get your head out of your *filtered* and get educated on things before spouting off.

"someone cant always start their own business"
You mean they cant afford to take the risks and put up their end to compete in a marketplace, and therefore want the marketplace forced to do what they want?

Load of pure ignorance indeed.