wow Blizzard Sending Out Level Squish Surveys

[Dareous 0]

Honestly just squish us back down to 100 and freeze the levels there.  Give us alternate leveling methods going forward.  

[Arcling 898]

1 hour ago, Tarazet said:

This is a tough one, because they could go in so many different directions with this. It's not like they're just saying "you are becoming less powerful" or "we're removing content from the game." They're just... reducing the level cap. Okay, so what? What is this going to do for us? What is actually going to change with the experience we have with the game?

Other than reducing numbers (so they won't go into millions), it's probably to keep current amount of talent tiers, just my guess. There wasn't a new one this time, as they end at 100. If they are going to keep increasing cap beyond that, it means even more levels without new talent tier. Squish would allow to distribute them more evenly.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Arcling

[Guest]

I still remember back in the days of Cataclysm there was a blue post about how the game is growing and about a change in terms of eventually needing a squish based on health formulas etc. (futuristic irony and foreshadowing) and how IF we ever get to level 150 (the dev said if which was eventually going to happen with how things are going anyway) how could we change it so it isn't so drastic in terms of health spikes that happened from Cata to MOP with tanks going from 185k-200k+ hp to over 1 million. Hell even warlocks with their void walker cd were at 1.3mill+).

While I somewhat welcome this change it would make more sense if they implemented what they did in previous expansions with ranking up certain skills and abilities and (everything is pruned to *filtered* right now tbh) it made class design/specs amazingly fun. Right now they could just add a 120 row with powerful talents. (15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 100, 120) that makes 8 talent tiers instead of the 7 we've had since what? WoD but hasn't changed whatsoever except they keep switching and gutting the talents that were there initially. IF the core class/spec mechanics are gutted, they could do anything and everything to make the game seem "better" and until that is addressed there is no way anything can be properly fixed/patched up.

 

TLDR: I accept a level squish to an extent until the above mentioned is fixed. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Guest

[dshiryu 0]

Squish it all the way to 10 and make it feel like I'm playing D&D tabletop (or Gothic from Piranha Bytes, for that matter).

[Ragingwolf 310]

Well also I should have put this in my previous post on this topic but how many more expansions is Blizzard going to create after BFA?  I know there are novels that delve deeper into lore of WoW and Blizzard supposedly has a general idea on how it will begin and how it will end.  However we currently have what 8 expansions of the game?  With all that content that will need to be reviewed and work will it even matter in the long run if Blizzard is going to consistently reset and change classes after so many patches and release of expansions?   Because if the game is approaching toward the very 'end' might as well just save the ideas for the next WoW ip instead.

 

[Tupi 30]

6 hours ago, jinsu2301 said:

The real question is, what does it matter? Right now, gaining a level doesn't do anything, not because of the number of levels or because how fast you ding, but because of the design.

Gear doesn't matter because the numbers are squished to a point where there is no difference between a level 30 and a level 50 item. You also get showered with items, so you never run into a situation of having outdated gear (not that it matters because the game can be beaten in whites and greys). Finally, you never get the moment of "oh, I dinged and now I can finally use that awesome drop sitting in my bags" because everything simply scales.

Then you have mobs and quests always scaling so you never have an orange or red quest that you can either tackle now and have a hard time with, or you can decide to do something else instead until you are higher level. You never run into parts of a dungeon or an outdoor area that are harder simply because of the level difference.

 

It seems to me that we are now starting to look for solutions to problems caused by solutions to problems caused by solutions to problems. Every XPack increases the level cap, which means that leveling has to be made faster, which means that low-level questing has to be reworked which leads to scaling being introduced...

At this point the game as a whole needs a complete rework with a clear design philosophy underlying every aspect of it. Right now it's just a Patchwerk monstrosity held together by countless stopgap solutions.

 

TL;DR: I welcome it simply because 120 sounds like a lot and discourages people to play WoW, but it doesn't fix any of the core issues.

this is well said.

and, it seems as if they just need to do one more expac, don't worry about squishing, and put a pin in WoW and move on to WoW 2.0

new engine, new overall methodology.

There is now 'Classic' for those that want it, and WoW for all of it's bandages and over-healing for those that are liking what's going on.

There has been so much change in leadership in the last 3-4 years that they might as well scrap the old systems and move on.

As critical as everyone is about WoW, including myself, there is an incredible legacy for everyone involved to be proud of.

it just might be time to retire the thing with a fresh start from the ground up.

[Spanky 2]

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Basih149 said:

They should make all zones including vanilla scale up to the latest expansions, that way the world would feel more alive though they really should make all NPCs deal way more damage and have way more HP so that you can't just AOE kill everything in your path. 

That would annoy the stuffing out of me. I like being able to kill 15 thousand things at once. 

[Spanky 2]

I think it is dumb. I don't like the item level squish at all. Especially now that Legion gear max is about 225. So in this one expansion, they have almost Doubled the Item Level and we are only Halfway done with the expansion. Current ilvl in 8.1.5 is 425. 

[Prophet001 598]

9 hours ago, Koxsos said:

"We gonna make WoW more like guild wars 2, again..."

Well, if it works, it ain't stupid! ?

Guild wars is absolutely horrible.

No other MMO I've played has so completely and thoroughly destroyed the sense of character progression than GW and GW2.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Prophet001

[Prophet001 598]

1 hour ago, Spanky said:

I think it is dumb. I don't like the item level squish at all. Especially now that Legion gear max is about 225. So in this one expansion, they have almost Doubled the Item Level and we are only Halfway done with the expansion. Current ilvl in 8.1.5 is 425. 

They have to squish because the tail of every expansion has exponential power growth.

If they didn't squish we'd be using scientific notation for our damage numbers.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Prophet001

[dsc 18]

10 hours ago, Bobbis said:

I'd be happy, squish it down to 60, make all current content scale to 60, and new expac for the new levels. (or even scale to 50 and have the new expac to 60. Allow us a version of meaningful talents and spell learning whilst making use of the massive world we have. 

Recently levelled a VE to 120, and skipped MoP and Outland completely, didn't finish any Wrath zone, and only just finished Hyjal in cata and Val'sharah in Legion due to the invasions...

Though if I'd had the option, I've have finished more Vanilla zones since I've not touched them since the Cata revamp. give us more freedom to chose where to go whilst levelling.

I agree, but in my book they could just delete all content after TBC and "maybe" Wrath.  TBC was the last xpack where leveling was a bit difficult, but for me the game ended once I killed Arthas.  

Everything post TBC has been laughable for leveling.  I had zero fear or thrills along the way. 

If they rolled it back to Vanilla levels the Wrath babies on would freak the hell out and probably quit.  

Blizz will squish it and your suggestion is an excellent one, only none of it will matter with the difficulty being zero + heirlooms.

[AartS 14]

A squish is Blizzard being lazy....

Why should there not be room for a talent or 2 more per expansion? Or even just one with a rank system per few levels. No many care for the leveling experiences untill current content anyway , the talents between 0-start of current expansion level are never going to be exciting again nor should they. Instead the game should develop and grow to make current gameplay feel the same level of excitement again. If they want to capture the growth curve from 1-60 from vanilla, they should start by making the expansions bigger instead of just 10levels with nothing but ilvl to show for it.

They should focus on expanding the experience and gameplay rather then reusing old content and systems.

And Yes, item level gains during an expac is just too high currently. It burns through any stat squish. Remove warforged system and they can reduce the ilvl increase. 

 

[KhanArdo 0]

Bottom line is that I would love to see a level squish.

With more and more news about classic coming out, I've actually given this a lot of thought and it is encouraging that this is a question being asked by the dev team. WoW has found itself in the perpetual cycle of xpac, race to max level, xpac, race to max level going back as far as BC. The addition of each xpac seems to make the leveling process more and more trivial.

It is far worse with BFA than it has been with any previous xpac due to zone scaling and a lack of a simple talent progression (even as simple as Legion's). It is so bad this expansion that characters even moderately geared in Legion feel like they are LOSING power as they gain levels since their scaled gear gets worse and worse but they are not finding any better gear until level 115 or above.  Additionally, the lack of any new talents makes the process feel hollow.  The only power to be gained is the gathering of better and better gear at level cap but even then, reaching 400 ilvl in 3 weeks of BFA play time is relatively easy if you are familiar with the process.

I would love to see the level cap go back down the 60.  Keep it there forever and every new xpac reduce everyone's level down to 30 or 40.  Make the leveling process require a decent amount of work with appropriate power gains in not only gear but talent points as well. I understand how difficult this would be to do given the fact that the game has had over a decade of this race to level cap and a change like this would require breaking that culture but it is worth doing if you want to keep this game alive. Players want to be rewarded for their hard work in terms of time and effort but the current leveling process punishes you for gaining levels rather than rewards you.

[KLWN 7]

23 hours ago, VictorFella said:

ideally would be 100 incl. the talents that go max. level 100

rework the actual talent tree, revive the old one, inlc. major glyphs and all sorts of enchantment n gem/socket slots...

I agree on your idea here.

WoW already have much to offer, but by involving old content with new quests, daylies, recipes and only usefull skills. Skills should be learned like in WoW Vanilla.

[Arcling 898]

10 minutes ago, KLWN said:

I agree on your idea here.

WoW already have much to offer, but by involving old content with new quests, daylies, recipes and only usefull skills. Skills should be learned like in WoW Vanilla.

As someone who was a raider back then, I disagree. There wasn't really much of a choice when talent trees and glyphs existed (WotLK). Default way was to check guides and there was only one viable path, everything else just didn't work for raiding (even worse during MoP, when reforging was still a thing, mandatory reforging of stats before equipping any piece of armor that dropped).  Current talent system might not be great, but it is still better than what it used to be.

[KLWN 7]

9 minutes ago, Arcling said:

As someone who was a raider back then, I disagree. There wasn't really much of a choice when talent trees and glyphs existed (WotLK). Default way was to check guides and there was only one viable path, everything else just didn't work for raiding (even worse during MoP, when reforging was still a thing, mandatory reforging of stats before equipping any piece of armor that dropped).  Current talent system might not be great, but it is still better than what it used to be.

I used to raid a lot in WoLK, CATA and Mist. I do agree that it was not perfect, but better than today. It's a question of time before all classes can tank, dps and heal. WoW still has a lot to offer, but I miss the big difference in the classes and the skill tree.

[PatrickHenry 293]

1 hour ago, Arcling said:

As someone who was a raider back then, I disagree. There wasn't really much of a choice when talent trees and glyphs existed (WotLK). Default way was to check guides and there was only one viable path, everything else just didn't work for raiding (even worse during MoP, when reforging was still a thing, mandatory reforging of stats before equipping any piece of armor that dropped).  Current talent system might not be great, but it is still better than what it used to be.

Dead on.  

Sure you could pick an additional 3% damage with 2H weapons, or put more points into another tree to change your healing capability...

But there were still only a few viable specs endgame.

Just like today.

I find no problem with level squish.  Start talents available at level 5.  new spec trait at every 10 or 15 levels.  squish the distance between ability unlocks some..

Im sure they can do it or they wouldnt be asking.

[Yolo 40]

After all, it is (and was before too) inevitable. 

Every expansion, the level cap has been raised, while the old content still had to be done. If Cata and Mists would've increased lvls with the usual 10, there would be 140 as level cap. And out of the current 120, at least 58 had to be done in Classic content (revamped in Cata) and a other 52 in nowadays irrelevant content. That is extraordinarily long, however still has its monetary purpose: there would be no need of level boosts if leveling was easy and fast. 

Blizzard already designed a system that adapts everything to the character's level (D3) that came to Wow in Legion. (Sort of) 

I feel the level squish is needed, but the content level still needs to squished down. If its irrelevant anyway, why can't do everything after level 5 (or whatever level you exit the "tutorial" zone). If i want to go and kill some undead in Northrend, why can't I? Or if i have Panda vibes, why do I need to do TBC or Wrath AND Classic? 

There should be 1 "tutorial" Zone (per race) which shows the Basic types of quests (Kill, Kill and Loot, Kill Boss, Escort Npc, use questitem etc.) and the usage of abilities (like you need to use some CC for Hard hitting enemies) And i mean it should be pointed out as a tutorial bubble, like: you accepted an elite quest. They hit harder than average, you should use your skills to stay alive. This can be done with class quests. 

After the tutorial, the leveling should be done wherever you like, with the last 5 to be done on relevant content. 

The talent system needs some revamp too, I want more ways to costumize  and to actually feel different. Maybe we could let specializations go and pick our own abilities to enhance what we want. Smite Priest, Shockadin, conjurer/support mage... Possiblities are endless. Hell to balance, but fun to play with. 

[PatrickHenry 293]

3 hours ago, Yolo said:

There should be 1 "tutorial" Zone (per race) which shows the Basic types of quests (Kill, Kill and Loot, Kill Boss, Escort Npc, use questitem etc.) and the usage of abilities (like you need to use some CC for Hard hitting enemies)

I actually feel like eventually it will be this way. They're already talking about sandbox world quests and fluid content with 8.2, its only inevitable, I think.  

[NeghVar 0]

It should be more than just a level squish.  The squish part should be to cut level, stat, HP numbers in half and double the exp. needed to ding.  Same happens to mobs and NPCs

level caps to open content of next expansion

• classic:  30
• BC: 35
• Wrath:  40
• Cata:  45
• MoP:  50
• WoD:  55
• Legion:  60
• BfA:  65
• Future Expansions: +5 levels

That would leave space for 7 more expansions until 100.  That should be enough to cover the remaining major historic antagonists and  what remains of the warcraft universe

Each expansion level scales to +5 its cap.

• Classic scales till lvl 35
• BC to 40
• Wrath to 45
• Cata to 50
• etc.

Scratch Pathfinder.  Flight requires level cap for the expansion plus a large sum of gold to train. 

A new talent choice every five levels using a system like the original talent tree. 

I also like the Loremaster achievements.  And I say their should be a perk of some kind, (more than just an achievement) to entice players to play through all the content of each expansion. (Special mount(s), transmorg sets, toys, pets, etc.)

[Arcling 898]

I agree, players should be able to freely choose in which past expansion they are going to level up. Storyline of quests has been messed up since Cata, no reason to keep them in specific order.

[PatrickHenry 293]

44 minutes ago, Arcling said:

I agree, players should be able to freely choose in which past expansion they are going to level up. Storyline of quests has been messed up since Cata, no reason to keep them in specific order.

Im actually kind of in favor of a SWTOR-style where you get certain quests that are like the main story of each zone, and completing them in order gives you the 'story', and all the others are free range do as you like.  I think they even do a different color for the 'story' quests?  Its been forever.

[Selorin 0]

Just bring back ranks for talents and make everything scalable to your current level.. Problem solved

Edited June 15, 2019 by Selorin

[Koxsos 38]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:28 AM, Prophet001 said:

Guild wars is absolutely horrible.

No other MMO I've played has so completely and thoroughly destroyed the sense of character progression than GW and GW2.

I can not deny that the endgame is "different" and the fact that the gear factor is heavily mitigated.
For a person that likes to farm gear endlessly and then waits for another patch to increase the ilvl cap, there isn't as much to do.

However the individual zone content feels much more fluid and while it will become repetitive eventually, you have metaplots and what not. It sounds a lot like the kind of thing people "seeking more interactive, interesting invasion like stuff" call for.
Considering GW and GW2 explored both level cap possibilities, the level squish again seems as an inspired move.

[Frogspoison 63]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:45 PM, NeghVar said:

It should be more than just a level squish.  The squish part should be to cut level, stat, HP numbers in half and double the exp. needed to ding.  Same happens to mobs and NPCs

level caps to open content of next expansion

• classic:  30
• BC: 35
• Wrath:  40
• Cata:  45
• MoP:  50
• WoD:  55
• Legion:  60
• BfA:  65
• Future Expansions: +5 levels

That would leave space for 7 more expansions until 100.  That should be enough to cover the remaining major historic antagonists and  what remains of the warcraft universe

Each expansion level scales to +5 its cap.

• Classic scales till lvl 35
• BC to 40
• Wrath to 45
• Cata to 50
• etc.

Scratch Pathfinder.  Flight requires level cap for the expansion plus a large sum of gold to train. 

A new talent choice every five levels using a system like the original talent tree. 

I also like the Loremaster achievements.  And I say their should be a perk of some kind, (more than just an achievement) to entice players to play through all the content of each expansion. (Special mount(s), transmorg sets, toys, pets, etc.)

Bah. If we are going to have a level squish, ALL older content should scale up to right under the new expansion, period, AND scale downward too. As a guy stated earlier, if you want to go to Pandaria as soon as you leave the starting zone, go ahead. If you feel like working on the garrison and killing time traveling Orcs, go ahead. If your father died to a wild boar and you want to avenge him in spirit by killing 10k boards in Durotar, go ahead. Just that the new expansion content is only there for max level players.