Heroic siegecrafter mines.

[Krazyito 521]

We have 2 new warlocks in my guild and they consistently seem like they are lower on mines than they should be.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/413/

I also have world of logs if you would rather see that.

You can look at any logs from the 22-23,its all seigecrafter.

What I want to know is, how can I query these logs to see if they are dpsing the mines correctly? Or is it a problem with controlling them to cleave enough?

They both did better on Thursday than Wednesday (we talked to them a little and I suppose they fixed it a little) but I feel like they should be able to do more

I know there was one attempt where one used FnB with an immollate on the mines (which I know they are suppose to die way faster than that should imply) and the other did at least one or 2 chaos bolts at mines.

Anything warlock or non warlock specific that you see would be of great help as well. Thanks!

[Zagam 1,982]

FnB Immolate on the mines is a huge mistake.  That could cost them over 1M damage.  If raid positioning is done correctly where the boss is kept right where the bombs come out, they should be going apeshit on them with FnB Conflag - FnB Incinerate.  They both should be taking Shadowfury to catch loose bombs.  After the initial wave of bombs comes through, they should be using a Glyphed Havoc to destroy the ones that are loosely spread enough to not get cleaved.  Elemental Shamans should still win every single attempt on the bombs, but Destro should be #2 every time.  Ele wins because they're not limited to their AoE with a secondary resource. 

 

Things to help positioning include Gorefiend's Grasp (MAKE SURE THE DK ISNT FIXATED BY A BOMB), Earthgrab Totem, Ring of Frost, Frost Trap, and the slowing brew shit that Brewmasters do. 

 

From what I can see on the logs, they're just doing low DPS.  The 3 times I've done this fight, I never finished below 350k, and it looks like both of your Warlocks are struggling to keep above 260k DPS(e).  I know sometimes lasers cut into uptime, but there's no excuse for that kinda DPS unless they're 560 or below.  Out of curiousity, I pulled your Heroic Malkorok from earlier in the week.  They're both below 300k DPS.  The problem isn't WHAT they're doing on Siegecrafter.  It's who they are as Warlocks. 

 

For example, Sycosis actually turned on Fire and Brimstone during Malkorok.  That means he was selfishly trying to pad on the adds, but even a mediocre Warlock knows that using FnB on 4 targets isn't ideal.  I think the better question is why Wolvios is raiding.  Sycosis has some room to grow a bit as well but he/she is much further along.  Why are these two doing all your Siegecrafter attempts?  Where is the stud Drifloon?  He rocked Thok for you guys but I don't see him in Siegecrafter attempts.  Only kill I see the three of them together should tell you exactly why the issues on Siege exist.  Drif does 400k+ to Thok and Wolv is at 276k and Sycosis is at 224k.  I'm sorry, but 224k is inexcusable as a Destruction Warlock on Thok.  276k isn't much different. 

[Krazyito 521]

Drifloon was out for the week.  He's usually there but this week he had something up.  I know Sycosis seems a lot better overall (IMO) though the first night we had on siegecrafter it seemed Sycosis was doing More DPS over all, but like no mine damage compared to Wulvios.

 

As for DK's, I'm not really sure whats up with ours, though apparently we cant do jack shit with out him controlling the mines, even though he does like no damage over all..  We're getting a 2nd DK this coming week and I'm hoping that will solve some control issues.

 

Back to locks, is there something I should tell them or mention?  I know the 2nd day I went through the logs trying to figure out what they were doing and to me it just seems they weren't using FnB conflag/incinerate enough when the mines came out.  Which is what I told our ranged officer and he at least talked to Sycosis about it.  Maybe when Drifloon comes back this week he can set them straight with what they should be doing. (I'm hoping we extend this week cause we're pretty close and I just don't want to waste the time)

[Zagam 1,982]

Both of those guys have lots of opportunities to grow.  Just low damage for the content they're in.  Drif embarrassed them on Thok, so if they're not already inquiring how he's crushing them, then they may just not give two shits.

[Liquidsteel 279]

If you're still struggling with controling the mines, the warlocks can also sacrifice their Succubi for an extra knockback on a relatively short CD.

 

edit: on second thought if they're as bad as Zagam makes out, they may end up knocking them in the wrong direction :p

Edited January 27, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[mediocregatsby 18]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xZMjGL3rcVqAQDvz#type=damage&boss=1601&wipes=1&target=69

that chart shows damage done to mines across ALL wipes. you can use the dropdown at the top to look at a specific wipe.

 

it's rather embarrassing for your warlocks to lose to arcane mages using blizzard on the mines. on average, ele shamans should be your best damage on mines, followed by warlocks and DKs (barring any exceptional RNG or raid comp). all you have to do is keep rain of fire on and spam FNB incinerate while maintaining immolate on the boss. using havoc on the shredder leading up to a wave of mines will help ensure you have enough embers going into AOE to sustain it. they can also havoc the boss for shadowburn snipes on the mines if they're fast enough. 

 

the story changes somewhat if your raid isn't keeping the mines clumped enough. this responsibility falls on:

1. the tank keeping the boss right where the mines jump on the platform

2. the DKs spamming their AOE slow and gorefiend grasping at the right times

3. all your engineers using the EMP to keep mines from spreading or getting too close to ranged stack

4. all your knockback-capable DPS keeping mines clumped. like liquidsteel mentioned, locks should be saccing their succubus for an extra knockback here. 

 

i managed to get a top 10 parse on 25H siegecrafter this week, despite competing against two good ele shamans, a lock, and 3 DKs for mine damage. one small piece of advice i can give to an individual lock is dont try too hard to pad meters on the mines. sometimes it's better to just hit the boss if the rest of the raid is killing mines fine.  http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gZcLzhaj9YpdN3rC#fight=1&type=damage

[Zagam 1,982]

During progression, it should never be safe to ignore mines unless your raid is stacked with Ele Shamans.  The first few waves of mines aren't troublesome...it's the double mine pushes you deal with later along with the Empowered Mines that really add the wrinkles to the platform team.   It's also hard to see the numerical parses since WoL has tracked Heroic kills as normal kills for as long as people have been killing it.  It's a nice parse, regardless.

[mediocregatsby 18]

well that's why the ranking is based on just warcraftlogs. WOL still can't deal with the last 3 heroic bosses, such fail. i assume most serious guilds are logging on both by now.

 

hardest part with mines is when empowered mines are coming off the belt AND the pipe. i dont know what OP's raid positioning is for that but you should line up the boss and ranged stack such that both groups of mines intersect with the boss for maximum cleaving. this isn't so important for ranged but it will boost your melee's contribution to mines tremendously

[Krazyito 521]

hardest part with mines is when empowered mines are coming off the belt AND the pipe. i dont know what OP's raid positioning is for that but you should line up the boss and ranged stack such that both groups of mines intersect with the boss for maximum cleaving. this isn't so important for ranged but it will boost your melee's contribution to mines tremendously

 

You can use combat replay with those WCL's =P.

 

I do genuinely think that our problems with mines are a mix of control and DPS.  They are usually controlled well, but then I'm not sure if they die fast enough which is why I'm thinking our warlocks should at least be doing more or equal to Arcane mages.  (Do bear in mine that the Arcane mages have a 100% damage buff with all their spells due to mastery)

[mediocregatsby 18]

i tried looking at the combat replay for your longest wipe briefly but it looks like you never got to that point or you use a different belt kill order :[

[Krazyito 521]

More than likely we haven't gotten that far.

[mediocregatsby 18]

if you're having problems with mines without even getting to that part, you're really gonna need those locks to step it up. ROF and FNB-incinerate, it's all they need!

Edited January 28, 2014 by mediocregatsby