Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Just wanted to say that, at ilvl529 I was only achieving 50k raid dps with my fire specced mage, even though I had the rotation down and done the reforges etc. I changed to frost spec and immediately doubled my raid dps (it was 96k). At least for me, fire spec wasn't cutting it at that ilvl. I just share this because in my experience all specs weren't equal - frost certainly outperformed fire. It was certainly frustrating, when with fire, having done all the reforges, gemming and everything and getting trolled in raids for low dps. Hopefully those days are now over. Nigel aka Tuskytoo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Did you have at least 40% crit? If not I can understand why you didn't have the expected numbers. Anyhow, both numbers seem quite low to me. Reforges, gems and things like these mean only 5% of your DPS the rest comes from your play style. I would like to point out for the other mages, that just because one player couldn't achieve what he expected it doesn't mean that, that spec would be worse than the others. It's all up to the player's skill and play style assuming optimal gearing. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks for your reply to my post. I wonder if it is possible to get 40% crit at ilvl 529 - I had only about 20% crit even after reforging. I would appear to me that fire is suboptimal until you have better gear, enabling 40% crit rating. Certainly play style is a factor, but, being the same person, I was able to double my dps by switching to frost at the same ilvl. I don't doubt I can still improve on my dps (hopefully dramatically ! ), even in frost spec - I have been studying the rotations and practicing so hope for a continued learning curve. Any simple suggestions of course welcome ! Tusky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Narsha 12 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Fire is suboptimal until you get enough crit, unfortunately. Frost does really good on lower ilvls. Then as you get more gear you will do more deeps with the spec you play the best. Have to agree with Oltier you should be able to push more dps with your gear, check out this thread for the basics and this one for some advanced info. Then feel free to ask anything you might not get and someone will answer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks muchly for your post and the thread links. I am a "sponge" for info at the moment, having just switched over to frost. I also love the water elemental (and have the matching companion pet which is fun too). About the water elemental - is there a way to make it take more aggro so act more as a tanking pet? cheers Tusky PS: will contemplate going back to fire when I get the magic 40% crit: I'm double specced so that is a start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Narsha 12 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 Unfortunately Mr. Wellington is a terrible tank! You could let him attack and then just stand still and watch, that should work but you gonna pull aggro as you attack. I don`t have any numbers for this but remember it was discussed a while back, can see if I find the thread if necessary. Welcome as a frost mage, there are some of us that really, really enjoys it. Fire is cool too so go back to it if you enjoy it but don`t let anyone tell you frost is not viable, it is from dungeons to heroic raids. Almost related, helped a guildies alt in Flex yesterday and this shaman was so irritated with me since I should play arcane and not frost, I continually asked him "why?" and all he said was "cause its better" and that I was a nub. Popped a flask before the next pull just to shut him up. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 I'm finding frost more survivable than fire especially with shoot-while-you-move frost bolts, so Mr Wellington probably doesn't need tank duty. The thread I went to gave advice about switching between living bomb/frost bomb and nether bomb. My understanding is that this switch requires switching to a different talent spec. Is it possible to have three talent specs - if not, you are probably limited to using only two of these bomb types. Any clarifications there? I have to admit I'm enjoying the frost mojo, so no current plans to go back to the fire days ("you're fired !"). T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 28, 2014 You can purchase Tomes of Clear Mind to change your talents without respecing. About Water Elemental tanking: When you pop your Mirror Images, your Elemental will also act like it was a Mirror Image and it will have more aggro until it dies. This means, you basically have a 3 minutes CD taunt while soloing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackd 8 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 i was doing 120k dps at ilvl 520 so u should be able to do alot morecheck some guide for rotation on youtube Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oltier 471 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 Naaah don't youtube! :D We have very good guides here on icy-veins for frost and most guides on youtube can be very misleading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blackd 8 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 Naaah don't youtube! We have very good guides here on icy-veins for frost and most guides on youtube can be very misleading. well its always cool to see it visualy in practice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 Thanks guys for the tips ! Have been basing my rotation in Icy Veins guide. No substitute for grinding mobs and raiding practice no doubt. cheers Tusky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 Just wondering why the Icy Veins rotation doesn't appear to use "frost nova". I would have thought that nova/ice lance would be an OK combination. Interested in feedback on that. Tusky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Narsha 12 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) Thinking about our pets frost nova? It only procs ice lance on freezable targets and that does not include most bosses, but if there are adds to freeze go a head and get those free procs! There are possibilities here too since the adds are frozen until someone breaks them out (usually right away), a personal favourite is to get the buff from our 2-piece by using a brainfreeze-proc, run to the mobs, pet freeze them and instantly Cone of Cold at the same time, CoC will shatter and the adds will die. Edited January 29, 2014 by Narsha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuskytoo 1 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 All of that sounds cool, although the original question related to the "frost nova" mage spell (not the pet spell), and the fact that ice lance does triple damage against frozen targets (even though frost nova doesn't proc icicles as far as I know). tusky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Narsha 12 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 Yeah I didn't understand that, mostly because I`ve never used my own frost nova in raids (except for maybe mines on Heroic Siegecrafter or something). The idea is that in a raidenviroment the freeze will break before you the ice lances hit, and you have to be in meele. So I`m not positive, maybe some others have better and more experience with this technique. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynx 19 Report post Posted January 29, 2014 All of that sounds cool, although the original question related to the "frost nova" mage spell (not the pet spell), and the fact that ice lance does triple damage against frozen targets (even though frost nova doesn't proc icicles as far as I know). tusky It's quadruple damage, and it shatters. But nova takes a gcd, most roots break during that time, so ice lance is not an option. Very situational, but if there are a lot of adds and not much aoe is going on you can pull a nova+CoC, which will crit at least on some adds. I usually treat nova as a survavability/control option. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
