[Stuff]Mixed optimization for a Destruction/Demonology viable built

[Terris 0]

Hello,

 

Currently 559 with KTT and PBI, i'd like to tinker my stats so that i can use destruction and demonoly with the same stuff.

 

What would be a decent haste point to aim so that it's enough but not too much for destro?

 

Thanks !

[Kazistrasz 216]

The highest viable breakpoint for Destruction is 10124. Most heroic raiders hate having that much haste as Destruction, because it leads to a ton of GCD capping, which is wasted DPS.

 

Demonology requires much higher haste breakpoints for fury generation, imp spawn rates, DoT thresholds, etc. You could try going for one of the lower ones for Demonology that is close to 10124, but it's not going to get you the best DPS.

 

Demonology is fun, but it doesn't have a place in serious raiding. With a 559 item level, I'm assuming you are still working on normals, probably killing Garrosh, or just beginning heroic content with maybe Immerseus or Norushen down.  If you're working at the end of normals, my recommendation is to just reforge fully for Demonology for farm night, and then re-reforge back to Destro for progression night (if you're making it to progression in the middle of the night, I'd have to assume you'd take a break in there somewhere that you could run do it or go during a boss with a lengthy amount of trash and/or RP).  If you're working on the beginning heroics, I'd just start the week as Destro and then after you're done with progression for the week run re-reforge to Demonology for clearing out the rest of the week.

 

The sad fact of the matter is that the two simply are not as compatible as we'd like.

[Terris 0]

Thanks Kasistraz, although i figured out as much, i needed to confirm.

I really love playing demonology but this tier it always turned out to be very weak compared to destruction.

I'm still in progression so having a weaker dps is really out of the question, and reforging twice a week? Don't have the time to farm the money :)

 

Thanks !

Edited February 6, 2014 by Terris

[juribe 1]

Demonology is fun, but it doesn't have a place in serious raiding.

 

I'm just wondering what this is based on? I was Demo for Thok and Paragons, pretty sure I was for Immerseus, Protectors, and Norushen as well. Granted, Destro is probably "more viable" if that's a thing, but Demo definitely has a place in serious raiding. It just takes a lot more effort to put out the same numbers as Destro.

[Lockybalboa 618]

Even played at max levels demo is the weakest warlock spec. 

 

Demo damage Vs. other classes is competitive and fine. Demo damage Vs. Destro, demo comes out a good bit behind. It just can't keep up with destros crushing strength. 

 

WarcraftLogs are still becoming "known" but most of the high end guilds have already changed over to using them or at least use both. The data is still skewed a bit but the trend can still be seen. WoL has about the same look to it, just easier to see on WL.

 

Thok http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5#boss=1599&metric=dps&class=Warlock

 

Malk http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5#boss=1595&metric=dps&class=Warlock

 

IJ http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5#boss=1600&metric=dps&class=Warlock

[juribe 1]

I'm certainly not claiming Demo to be better than Destro, I'm just questioning why it would be viewed as not having a place in serious raiding. If it was leagues behind in damage, sure, but it isn't. I'd say it definitely has a place in serious raiding, if the person wants to play it. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

Depends on your definition of "serious raiding". My definition is bleeding edge progression, min/maxing for that 1% DPS gain can truly make a major difference in progression. In that situation, demo has almost no place. It can't keep up with destro or aff in that situation, the place for demo in this situation is only when it's used for something very odd.

 

First week progression my guild and I did 9/14HM. We we're totally boned on gear that first week, we d/e'd more items then we kept, just kept getting useless items. Come Malk, our healers were just so undergeared they were having a major problem trying to keep the raid alive during Blood Rage, we couldn't meet the DPS check if we three healed so the only option was for people to take less damage during BR phase. I busted out demo and the dark apoc glyph and healers never had to spend one GCD on me. Two other DPS changed some things for themselves so they didn't need nearly as much heals and two pulls later we had the kill.

 

One of the biggest differences between the good players and the great are the ability to recognize when their toolkit can be used and how to use it outside the box. In this case, there is no such thing as "That spell/spec/class has NO place in raid/pvp" the place for these things are just very limited.

 

Personally, even when I'm not doing bleeding edge, I still go for the highest DPS I can get regardless of spec. I hate destro, a lot. I really bleeding hate it. Demo is hands down my loved spec. I have loads of transmog gear just for my PET that I've spent days farming. But I would never use demo as long as I'm still doing progression or re-progression because it is enough behind destro that I would view playing it as holding our raid back needlessly. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

There are only 2 real fights where Demo shines and has a chance of beating the other specs this tier, Iron Juggernaut and Malkorok. Even then, you need a metric tonne of ilvl in order to reap the benefits, and not have the fight last more than 5 minutes. Immerseus is pretty decent for Demo too off of the opening burst on adds, and thok has its place due to ToC and decent bat damage, but that's really it.

 

For progression it just isn't really competitive.

 

Sure you can make it work, but for pure progression just play Destruction on everything. It has insane survivability and mega damage.

 

Once you are geared to the teeth then give it a go on the short single target fights as it is pretty strong in those situations.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[Kazistrasz 216]

When I say it has no place in serious raiding, I'm talking about right now. The race has been over for months now, so it's no longer doing that kind of "bleeding edge" progression where you're at the mercy of what has or has not dropped for your group in two or three lockouts where you end up needing to do some extra weird stuff to get things out (like several guilds early on used a demo lock to solo the slimes on Dark Shaman because of the way the spec mechanics work).

 

Most guilds pushing content at the end of SoO now have item levels pushing close to 580 and almost no one under 570 excepting a possible main switch or new recruit. No one is going into Garrosh with a 567 item level now. We outgear heroic content now in a tier where gear has become such a ridiculous factor in output. You're no longer going to find yourself in a situation where you need to take a weird talent choice or glyph to be able to survive, or a point where you need to experiment with mechanics to find a way to make it work.