wow Ny'alotha Race Day 9: 10%, a Missing Phase, No Nerfs and a Lot of Weirdness

[Starym 3,800]

 

Day 9 was a pretty bizarre one, starting off with a push to get the boss down to 25.5% to see the next phase of the encounter, a return to the Chamber of Heart and Magni and MOTHER, finally getting to see those datamined abilities and helping fire that cannon. But, as we already talked about extensively, that phase just didn't exist, as Blizzard said the 25.5% immune shield as well as the gate being clickable was a bug all along. This means they actually allowed Limit to progress on the boss for a couple of days, watching their pulls and their strategy form around the assumption that 25.5% was the goal, which they found out during another giant bug from earlier in the race.

Now, as for me, I'm somewhat skeptical of this explanation, for several reasons. The official reason given for the immune shield coming up was that it was a mechanic put in place for much later in the raid's lifespan, when overgeared guilds would push through the boss easily and was meant to force them to go into the Chamber room and not just nuke the boos down in 1 shot, and it just bugged and triggered for Limit. Then, simultaneously, the gate ALSO bugged out and was clickable, presumably linked to the shield trigger. This would mean that Blizzard knew about the bug since day 6 when they despawned the boss, either couldn't or just didn't fix it for 3 days, decided not to mention it to Limit then, and then magically fixed it exactly after Limit's 2nd time at 25.5% today, and then sent a mail explaining things.

The other big reason I'm kind of not buying this is the very lackluster nature of the secret Mythic phase that we got. As mentioned by Limit players themselves, it's the easiest part of the fight, comes in the middle of it and basically has very little impact on the fight at all, only costing the players several neck uses. It seems far more likely that Blizzard did in fact have a grander end planned for N'Zoth, which included a return to the Chamber of Heart with an extra phase, but just couldn't get it working properly for some reason, while hoping for the guilds to take some time until they got there. Now obviously this is all speculation and it might just have been the bugs as they said, but in that case the boss is a little bland, and the Mythic only phase flat out terrible and uninspired, especially for an expansion endboss.

The real big news of the day, however, was that Complexity Limit kept pushing after finding out their strategy was moot, and managed to get the boss to 10% on 2 separate occasions, one at 10.6 and the other 10.3%!

This try came in around 4 hours before Limit called it a day and they didn't have any pulls that were that close, having some 20-ish% attempts while trying to rework their strategy to get that final 10% down, with introducing Arms Warriors, Boomkins and a whole lot of other changes as well. As you'd expect, Limit's players weren't too happy with the changes today, with their GM and raid lead Max having some choice quotes:

So turns out the past few days when the boss put up a shield at 25.5% and opened a gateway again that was all a ruse and now its just you burn the boss to 0 *filtered*

— max (@maximumwow) February 5, 2020

anyone change their entire movement strat making the gateway clickable a second time at 25% where it was spawning a second time just to find out it was a prank, live picture of me pic.twitter.com/B3AaqWHZuV

— max (@maximumwow) February 5, 2020

I’ve never been so tricked in my life from what we witnessed today in them changing that fight or un bugging it or whatever, this is an isolated incident, the whole “stuff isn’t quite working when you get there” thing has NEVER been that bad.

— max (@maximumwow) February 6, 2020

He did calm down by the end of the day, however, and had some more positive things to say as well:

Regardless who wins the boss tomorrow (or later) we always have tremendous respect for method and pieces players. Most of the toxicity is from twitch chat surrounding it and we all hate it. We’re just tryin to game.

— max (@maximumwow) February 6, 2020

Speaking of Method, they had some progress ending at 48%, but even with the 13-16 hour US head start, they're still a long way behind Limit. Today might change that, however, as it's now clear what the fight it, there are presumably no more surprises and the strategy and more importanatly raid composition can now be focused on, so it's still possible that they catch up. We also can't forget Pieces and Alpha, whom we haven't seem much of, but Alpha are just now re-clearing as they got their reset, and could pull of a major upset.

The other big news we got was that the 50% Echoing Void nerf wasn't coming this week at all, as Blizzard decided to postpone it following the community reaction to their announcement yesterday. This meant the pressure was off Limit, although Method did go to sleep early presuming the nerf was coming and there wouldn't be as much progress done after it.

We also had more additions to the N'Zoth club, as Skyline and Exorsus got the 8th and 9th spots on the tentacle fest, claiming the Aisa 3rd and EU 5th on Carapace.

And so day 9 ended with a whole lot of drama, with Limit pretty sure they can get the kill, and now Method, Pieces and Alpha gunning to get that perfect setup and not only catch up, but take the win from under Limit's nose. Today is going to be pretty damn tense and exciting, and we'll definitely let you know if something exciting or weird happens, or you can head on over to Method's site progress coverage for live updates, or just follow Complexity Limit or Method's 24/7 streaming events on their twitch channels.

World First race related articles

• N'Zoth Bug Sees Entire Region's Bosses Despawn, 25% for Limit

• Mythic Ny'alotha Raid Progress Race Hub

• The Raid History World First Timeline

• Method Down Queen Azshara Mythic World First + Video, Raid Comp

• Ragnaros Classic Down World First by APES

• Limit Faction Transfer to Alliance for Ilevel 400 Gear (Bfa, Dazar'alor)

• Method to Livestream Uldir Mythic Progress for First Time in History

• Guild Banned Over Star Augur Exploit: Video Added (Legion, Nighthold)

• Three Top Guilds Suspended For Helya Exploit (Legion, Trial of Valor)

• Banned Guilds Talk about Their Helya Exploit and HC Raiding (Legion, Trial of Valor

• Old Watcher Blog on Encounter Tuning and Exploits

[Migol 433]

Yeah, I absolutely don't buy that excuse from Blizzard.    It's become more than clear that this whole patch was a complete rush job, reusing assets wherever possible, making the grinds generic and untested (rare/goliath killing anyone?), and an absolute lack of balancing done for corrupted gear.

Smart money indeed says they had more planned, but can't spare the effort and money to fix a fight they've already released so...screw it.    Hope someday someone internal writes a tell-all book pointing out what's going on and which bean counters are instructing people to cut corners and lie about things like this.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Migol

[Abquake 0]

26 minutes ago, Migol said:

whole patch

Whole Expansion

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Migol said:

Yeah, I absolutely don't buy that excuse from Blizzard.    It's become more than clear that this whole patch was a complete rush job, reusing assets wherever possible, making the grinds generic and untested (rare/goliath killing anyone?), and an absolute lack of balancing done for corrupted gear.

Smart money indeed says they had more planned, but can't spare the effort and money to fix a fight they've already released so...screw it.    Hope someday someone internal writes a tell-all book pointing out what's going on and which bean counters are instructing people to cut corners and lie about things like this.

Sadly the only thing that would be worth any effort (in any attempt) would be a mass scale of people quitting or not buying any products from them for a certain length of time to get the point across.

[Bobbis 208]

2 minutes ago, Serrated said:

Sadly the only thing that would be worth any effort (in any attempt) would be a mass scale of people quitting or not buying any products from them for a certain length of time to get the point across.

I'm hoping all the refunds for WC3R will help, and people not pre purchasing SL or asking for it refunded will make them take note...

[Kurosu 58]

4 hours ago, Bobbis said:

I'm hoping all the refunds for WC3R will help, and people not pre purchasing SL or asking for it refunded will make them take note...

Except that saddy people mass- pre-purchaces shadowlands after the cinematic at blizzcon. The cycle just repeats. People will mass pre order diablo 4 and overwatch 2 as well. Everytime its the same. Of course some of us stop giving blizz money but as you can see their attitude not only continues , but gets worse. Which means they dont "suffer" economically speaking. And who cares about reputation when money flows normally.

[durdyenglish 298]

6 hours ago, Migol said:

Yeah, I absolutely don't buy that excuse from Blizzard.    It's become more than clear that this whole patch was a complete rush job, reusing assets wherever possible, making the grinds generic and untested (rare/goliath killing anyone?), and an absolute lack of balancing done for corrupted gear.

Smart money indeed says they had more planned, but can't spare the effort and money to fix a fight they've already released so...screw it.    Hope someday someone internal writes a tell-all book pointing out what's going on and which bean counters are instructing people to cut corners and lie about things like this.

The end of BfA got the WoD treatment: cut half the content and make the next expansion better.

[Lampanelli 75]

47 minutes ago, durdyenglish said:

The end of BfA got the WoD treatment: cut half the content and make the next expansion better.

I can't believe I'm gonna give any sort of praise to WoD of all things, but even that expansions last patch seemed like less of a rush job than this have been. At least we got a new area and things to do there, with a raid that did function and were pretty alright. Here? Bugs, massive imbalances, and reused assets. I know BfA had a hard time getting saved, but it sure looks like they didn't even try to end on their feet, but just crashed face first into the dirt, whilst claiming it was on purpose.

[Pandabuffel 184]

55 minutes ago, Lampanelli said:

I can't believe I'm gonna give any sort of praise to WoD of all things, but even that expansions last patch seemed like less of a rush job than this have been. At least we got a new area and things to do there, with a raid that did function and were pretty alright. Here? Bugs, massive imbalances, and reused assets. I know BfA had a hard time getting saved, but it sure looks like they didn't even try to end on their feet, but just crashed face first into the dirt, whilst claiming it was on purpose.

I'm with you on this one. WoD was bad, but even there the last patch managed to keep me playing for at least 2-3 months since I enjoyed it for a while. We're now at 8.3 and I just stopped my sub since I already don't feel like playing anymore, they really butchered 8.3 hard for me. Might've been expectations, but we've already had Argus as a pretty big content-update in Legion and naturally I had the idea they would be improving on that. So when I heard Nya'lotha was coming I was excited to see what we would be doing there. I was thinking of a dark Old God type of Suramar-city with a cool progression system. But what did we get? Just a buggy and not-so-amazing raid. We got thrown to 2 zones I've already seen too many times just to do more annoying tasks and dailies as the majority of the content. And now at the World First race Blizzard had multiple chances to do something spectacular (mythic only phase, cool ending, new cutscenes) and it's just disappointment after disappointment.

Nah, I'm out on this one. I'll probably be back for Shadowlands. Definitely not pre-ordering anything yet, though.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Pandabuffel

[Starym 3,800]

The thing is, WoD only had 2 patches. So if you're gonna compare then compare with 8.2, not 8.3, and i think Naz and Mecha were pretty good or better than Tanaan etc. with 8.3 being a pretty big "bonus" compared to getting nothing until Shadowlands.

[Starym 3,800]

35 minutes ago, Pandabuffel said:

I'm with you on this one. WoD was bad, but even there the last patch managed to keep me playing for at least 2-3 months since I enjoyed it for a while. We're now at 8.3 and I just stopped my sub since I already don't feel like playing anymore, they really butchered 8.3 hard for me. Might've been expectations, but we've already had Argus as a pretty big content-update in Legion and naturally I had the idea they would be improving on that. So when I heard Nya'lotha was coming I was excited to see what we would be doing there. I was thinking of a dark Old God type of Suramar-city with a cool progression system. But what did we get? Just a buggy and not-so-amazing raid. We got thrown to 2 zones I've already seen too many times just to do more annoying tasks and dailies as the majority of the content. And now at the World First race Blizzard had multiple chances to do something spectacular (mythic only phase, cool ending, new cutscenes) and it's just disappointment after disappointment.

Nah, I'm out on this one. I'll probably be back for Shadowlands. Definitely not pre-ordering anything yet, though.

My main takeaway from 8.3 is the solid to good quality of Horrific Visions, as my main draw for Shadowlands is Torghast (seriously endgame hard solo content is something MMOs have been missing since forever). So if 8.3 had to be a bit of a mess for Shadowlands to thrive I'm ok with that.

[Pandabuffel 184]

23 minutes ago, Starym said:

My main takeaway from 8.3 is the solid to good quality of Horrific Visions, as my main draw for Shadowlands is Torghast (seriously endgame hard solo content is something MMOs have been missing since forever). So if 8.3 had to be a bit of a mess for Shadowlands to thrive I'm ok with that.

I agree with you there, Horrific Visions is the only positive thing I can think of that came with 8.3. But it's not enough to keep me playing for months.

I don't agree with your last sentence. If you went out to dinner and the food is horrible, would you be ok with it if the cook says he's just saving up for your next visit? Offcourse not. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss, and that's fine. But it shouldn't take the full playerbase after release to find out that this patch is seriously lackluster in its current state and that they should've done something to improve it. They definitely could've found out about that earlier before release. Instead of trying to improve it they just gave up, threw it out there and went 'meh, better luck next time'. That's seriously bad.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Pandabuffel

[Starym 3,800]

12 minutes ago, Pandabuffel said:

I agree with you there, Horrific Visions is the only positive thing I can think of that came with 8.3. But it's not enough to keep me playing for months.

I don't agree with your last sentence. If you went out to dinner and the food is horrible, would you be ok with it if the cook says he's just saving up for your next visit? Offcourse not. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss, and that's fine. But it shouldn't take the full playerbase after release to find out that this patch is seriously lackluster in its current state and that they should've done something to improve it. They definitely could've found out about that earlier before release. Instead of trying to improve it they just gave up, threw it out there and went 'meh, better luck next time'. That's seriously bad.

Nono, my point is that if getting a somewhat lackluster final BfA patch means getting a better Shadowlands for ME that's an ok price. I mean Legion is like a top 3 expansion for me and that's only cos of how they left WoD to rot ? It's a good tradeoff for me. And to use your analogy, yes I would be ok with getting a sub-par small meal if it meant I'd be getting amazing meals for the next week.

[Migol 433]

1 hour ago, Starym said:

My main takeaway from 8.3 is the solid to good quality of Horrific Visions, as my main draw for Shadowlands is Torghast (seriously endgame hard solo content is something MMOs have been missing since forever). So if 8.3 had to be a bit of a mess for Shadowlands to thrive I'm ok with that.

I would totally be on board with that except for two things that weren't immediately clear:

1) They're gating visions, Hard.   You have to grind to even be able to attempt them multiple times in a week.     Vessels are(way) overpriced and honestly unnecessary.    If this was a supposed to be a standalone feature of the patch then don't hobble it by making it so hard to get into and so stressful to fail.

2) The loot is also capped behind mythic raid/mythic+ ilevels...iirc you can get up to 470 ilevel in Visions doing them perfectly, which is behind the 475/485 you can get from the other two.

I have high hopes for Torgast as a new progressions system to add to raiding and mythic+, but this patch is making me very uneasy...visions seem likely to be a test run.     They need to remember that Mythic+ became their best new system after years of Raiding being the only real option because they didn't hobble or limit it; you can essentially run it as often as you want, your only barrier to upgrades is skill and current gear, and so on.   

Putting caps on the gear ilevel, making you grind items to gain access every week, gating by time/turnins or whatever...they need to learn their lessons from the failed concepts like warfronts and actually not hobble them.