A question for Kazi and Zagam::

[Astynax 24]

How do you guys like Mal'Ganis? I'm probably switching servers, and a couple of guilds from horde mal'ganis have approached me, and I immediately realized you both played it. Just curious, as I am leaning towards them.

[Zagam 1,982]

Should hop over.  Server never dies.  Always pugs going on.  Pugs on Mal'Ganis do better than some servers' main raid groups.  Be warned: if you play the AH, this isn't the place to do it.  It is a buyer's market, not a seller's. 

[JvChequer 43]

Mal'ganis it's really close to my server about population and market - seen in undermine journal.

Except I'm HUEHUEBRBR and Mal'ganis have higher progression overall

[Kazistrasz 216]

Mal'Ganis is huge. It's never not busy. If you're taking the risk of going to another server for a guild, it's a good place to be. If something doesn't work out with the guild, you're on a server with high-quality pugs and many, many guilds. I've regretted nothing about coming here at Thanksgiving. 

[Lockybalboa 618]

I've spent all my WoW time on low-mid pop servers, MG is worlds better.

[Astynax 24]

Very much appreciated. I think this is where I'm going. 1: I'm tired of looking at my worgen. and 2. IK MG is high pop and high high quality. Not likely to be raiding with you guys or anything. =P But I feel like it's probably a decent place for me to land.

 

 

I've spent all my WoW time on low-mid pop servers, MG is worlds better.

 

And I ought to apologize here Locky. Totally did't know you were raiding w/ zag and kazi until I tuned to the stream tonight. lol. I do value your opinion as well.

[Lockybalboa 618]

And I ought to apologize here Locky. Totally did't know you were raiding w/ zag and kazi until I tuned to the stream tonight. lol. I do value your opinion as well.

Lol, all good man. Zag and I have been raiding together for a month or so, this week was the first week Kaz joined us for real raiding. We've been raiding on alts together for a couple months.

I forgive you *murder eyes* this time.

[Astynax 24]

I forgive you *murder eyes* this time.

 

 

*shrieks in terror* I promise not to transgress again! 

[Eddie 16]

As another Mal'Ganis resident, I would also throw in my recommendation. I spent time on Nathrezim, Akama, and Black Dragonflight throughout several expansions, but Mal'Ganis has given me the highest quality WoW experience.

[Kazistrasz 216]

I will make one recommendation: make a character on any server you're considering going to, go into Org, and just ask around. Yes, you'll find a lot of trolls, but you'll also get some information. I especially believe in it for finding a guild's reputation before you make the commitment. Just ask in /2 if anyone knows what they're like. The most informed decisions are often the best decisions.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I will make one recommendation: make a character on any server you're considering going to, go into Org, and just ask around. Yes, you'll find a lot of trolls, but you'll also get some information. I especially believe in it for finding a guild's reputation before you make the commitment. Just ask in /2 if anyone knows what they're like. The most informed decisions are often the best decisions.

 

 

ya this. 

[Guest garmeth06]

If you come from a low pop server previously like me onto mal'ganis, Mal'ganis will be far more elitist, a symptom that there are tons of world-class players, pve and pvp.

 

the good pugs will require you to have up to date achievements, so it might be a tad hard to catch up if you get behind and plan on pugging, depending on how blizzard decides to implement catchup mechanics in WoD.

 

 

If you can deal with those two things I like the server, a guildie paid for my transfer in early Cata, and I've never looked back.

 

-2 Cents from the perspective of a non- world class player 

[Lockybalboa 618]

If you come from a low pop server previously like me onto mal'ganis, Mal'ganis will be far more elitist, a symptom that there are tons of world-class players, pve and pvp.

 

the good pugs will require you to have up to date achievements, so it might be a tad hard to catch up if you get behind and plan on pugging, depending on how blizzard decides to implement catchup mechanics in WoD.

 

 

To be fair the pugs that require high ilvls are *normally* either run by someone that is on a really undergeared toon and is looking to get carried, because they know that they can form a group with a high ilvl on MG fairly easily, or the pug is being run by someone from <Overture>, <Vigil>, <Obscure Reference>, or another 14/14HM player that is on an alt and just wants to down content rather then spend 4 hours wiping for no reason.

 

Nether of these are elitist and personally I don't resent either one also. If someone is willing to do the grunt work of leading a group, I don't mind them being less geared then the rest of us since they are making up for it in other ways.

 

I totally understand wanting to only deal with people that are of a higher caliber, or at least higher geared, because they are short on time and/or patience.

 

 

Also, to be clear, being a world class player has almost nothing to do with elitism. There are people that are in world class level playing that think they are god's gift to WoW and don't mind reminding you about it, but for every one of those people I've raided with 20 others that are just as skilled that mostly just want to be left alone and allowed to go about their business in peace. It's sometimes shocking to find how many really professional people there are that play at this level. I've raided with more doctors and scholars then almost anything else.

 

In all the years I've spent raiding everything from semi-casual to bleeding edge world first progression, 99% of the raiders fall into three categories.

 

1) Raiders that just want to be left the hell alone and allowed to do their job and kick some ass because they truly love the game/class/spec/guild they are in/play/are a part of.

 

2) Raiders that want to be the best they can be and to then use that information to help the people around them simply because they can.

 

3) Raiders that want to be the best because they ARE the best and want to play with the best to prove they are the best.

 

I'm number 2, I've raided at a world class level for a lot of years and during that time I've also spent hundreds of hours posting on Icy-Veins, Learn2Priest, Maintankadin, and other class forums to help the communities that I've been in. I don't post on the Blizzard forums anymore because of the people that just like to scream and shout at me and how "elitist" I am because I answered someones question WITH THE RIGHT ANSWER rather than just patting them on the head and saying "LOL its just a game D0 wut makes you happy :D:D:D:D:D"

 

It's the 1% that are the elitist pricks, these people rarely last very long at the very top end. Truly hardcore raiders very rarely want to have to deal with that 1% and their egos, it's bad for raid and it's bad for progression. Most of the truly elitist people come from the middle of the pack, people that haven't ever seen what true hard core raiders are like and are only impressed with themselves because they can top LFR Skada charts. 

 

This reply was a lot longer than I meant it to be and my girlfriend is waiting to watch a movie with me. I really hate it when people misassociate elitism with world class raiding.

[Kazistrasz 216]

What Locky said. Every large server is going to have a lot of those three types of raiders simply because they have more of everything than a tiny server. Yes, we do have some flex groups asking for 550+ just to avoid getting in there and having people pulling 45k DPS, and that's their right as the person putting together a group. If you can't deal with that, there's OQ for many things or always putting together your own group. 

 

Often, I find the word "elitist" is simply used to describe "anyone better than me that causes me to feel like I'm not very good". LFR heroes are quick to call anyone and everyone elitist, even if all you do is get to the boss and ask if anyone doesn't know it so you can explain it to them. Why? They like to think they're raiding, and when anyone that actually raids comes in they feel the illusion.

 

I do agree that most actual elitists simply think they are better than they are. There's a guild on Mal'Ganis that has a few of those. Yes, they're 14/14HM. But, they've got some players in there that think they're amazing because of their WoL ranks, even though they fake half of their logs.

 

In my case, I usually get called elitist for being unable to tolerate the people that think they're so amazing yet suck (people in flex/LFR that tell everyone else how they're doing the fight wrong and don't know what's going on when they're usually only 12/14N). The locks in my last guild respected me for the fact that I could beat them in damage and mechanics execution, but still thought I was elitist for saying they should stop doing things like using their Infernal. Or, when people let implosions go on Malkorok and say "I was in it; it's just a bug." No, princess. If you were in it, it wouldn't have gone off. 

[Astynax 24]

Lol.Nerve = struck. XD

 

To address the both of you, I don't think either of you is "elitist." You're always here answering questions, looking over logs, and genuinely being helpful. You've both answered questions of mine, which were incredibly stupid. You're both really nice guys.... Okay, I may need to rethink that one... But I think you get the point I'm trying to make.

 

Nevertheless, I understand the point that Garmeth is trying to make. Here on Sen'Jin, I'm the 10th best warlock (in terms of ilvl) on the server, alliance. and 26th overall. I'm not that great, but I'm a big thing over here, because there aren't any other options, and those other options are all spoken for guild-wise. Going to MG, that WILL NOT be the case. I'll have to sink or swim on my ability to not stand in fire, basically. I think that's the attitude that lots of people do, wrongfully, call elitism.

 

Essentially, I don't think anybody questions the fact that you guys are great players. I think the question that is more prevalent is "am I?"  I'd consider myself falling into Locky's category #2. But that doesn't mean I'm anything particularly special, and on a server like Mal'Ganis, there's no garuntee I'll be in a successful guild, because of my lack of flash.

[Lockybalboa 618]

I think the question that is more prevalent is "am I?"

 

 

This is what made me start raiding hard core in the first place. First guild I joined was a top 50 guild (long story) I was just a casual there and they over the next couple of years schooled me how to raid. Next long bit I was mostly just in mid level guilds, not bad by any means just not hard core. Finally the day came when I just had to know how good I really was, few weeks later I was raiding with a top 10 US guild. Scary stuff, but fun as hell to finally find just how you stack up.

 

I think you'll like MG, and it will fit well for you. If you want you can make an alt and hang out with us other there. We're playing the hell out of D3 this week but we'll still be around off and on to say hi!

[Guest garmeth06]

To be fair the pugs that require high ilvls are *normally* either run by someone that is on a really undergeared toon and is looking to get carried, because they know that they can form a group with a high ilvl on MG fairly easily, or the pug is being run by someone from <Overture>, <Vigil>, <Obscure Reference>, or another 14/14HM player that is on an alt and just wants to down content rather then spend 4 hours wiping for no reason.

 

Nether of these are elitist and personally I don't resent either one also. If someone is willing to do the grunt work of leading a group, I don't mind them being less geared then the rest of us since they are making up for it in other ways.

 

I totally understand wanting to only deal with people that are of a higher caliber, or at least higher geared, because they are short on time and/or patience.

 

 

I agree with this 100% and I don't label this elitism. My connotation of the word is different than what the average player's is I suppose. These requirements drastically lower the run's chance of failure, and I believe this is 100% reasonable and non-elitist.

 

There is, in my opinion, an unequivocal difference in the tone of a server like Mal'ganis or Tichondrius compared to your run of the mill, mid to low pop pve server. I simply postulated that this difference was due to the fact that MG and Tich have a large amount of amazing players, even if they aren't the ones propagating this behavior. This phenomenon that I have experienced and observed, is probably a product of the vocal minority overshadowing a less abrasive majority, but 1%?

 

Look at "Hey I'm MVP", the best pvp guild in the game on Tich. They have charged decent/good pvpers (read at about 2k rating), obscene amounts of gold to join their guild claiming that these players can " come play with the best " etc. Of course they never did play with the 2ks and simply abused their position and status for gold. I label this as elitism. 

 

If true elitism proliferates from the middle of the pack players, I simply haven't experienced this in lower pop servers or in my guild who I would consider in that middle of the pack range. Half my guild is like 35 years old with kids and just play to wind down.

 

One can go read Arena Junkies - what a toxic community - and just feel the overwhelming sense of arrogance and contempt radiate from the words of the multi-glads. "Lol, you're only 2k as a warrior/mage/insert any class, you're terrible and don't deserve an opinion." THAT is elitism, in my eyes.

 

All I wanted to portray through my post, is that mal'ganis is simply more elitist than an average server. The only correlation I saw between my definition of elitist and the server, is its surplus of good players, even if most of those good players ( and they don't), don't necessarily spread the elitism themselves. 

 

I do appreciate, in every aspect of life, the good people that decide to share their talent/work to help others. We have a ton of those here, Zagam, Locky, Kazistrasz, many others. I certainly don't think you guys are elitist for min-maxing, dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's. For that I am grateful, and I try to do the same in other areas where I excel. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Anecdotal observations, but bar the occasional elitist raider, I've found the majority of elitism stems from the PvP community. Garmeth's post sums it up pretty well, but my main gripe revolves around how every pvp discussion seems to require at least one if not several digs against pve.

I don't pvp because I suck at it and flat out don't enjoy it (cc based combat just doesn't do it for me). So why does every 1600 rating pvper feel the need to express how he would be 14/14H if he could be bothered. Meh.

They call pve a joke when all they do is 5 mans and lfr, yet respond furiously when I counter with 'I did a BG yday and topped damage, pvp takes no skill'.

[Astynax 24]

I think you'll like MG, and it will fit well for you. If you want you can make an alt and hang out with us other there. We're playing the hell out of D3 this week but we'll still be around off and on to say hi!

 

 

And this is exactly why I don't think you guys are elitist. The expectation that somebody can not stand in fire and perform a relatively simple rotation is not an elitist concept. It's just asking them to be relatively good at the game. And I appreciate this attitude! It's refreshing.

 

 

Anecdotal observations, but bar the occasional elitist raider, I've found the majority of elitism stems from the PvP community. Garmeth's post sums it up pretty well, but my main gripe revolves around how every pvp discussion seems to require at least one if not several digs against pve.

I don't pvp because I suck at it and flat out don't enjoy it (cc based combat just doesn't do it for me). So why does every 1600 rating pvper feel the need to express how he would be 14/14H if he could be bothered. Meh.

They call pve a joke when all they do is 5 mans and lfr, yet respond furiously when I counter with 'I did a BG yday and topped damage, pvp takes no skill'.

 

I'd agree for the most part. Many of the raiders I meet are very chill, and down-to-earth. But most PVPers I know don't have nay respect for the difficulty of raiding. I'm not a PvPer. But I don't particularly like their attitude either.

[mediocregatsby 18]

any time i hear PVPers act elitist, i just laugh at them. i used to care about WOW arenas a lot and reached gladiator multiple times as multiple classes. those are hollow achievements. arenas have never been close to true balance. saying that WOW arenas are "more balanced than they have ever been" might be a true statement, but compared to games like starcraft, quake, cs, and dota, WOW's most balanced state is still hilariously bad. nowadays i just play those games for my PVP fix instead. 

[Charladuce 1]

WOW's most balanced state is still hilariously bad.

 

^^ I lol'd at this.  Was on the isle the other day on my disc priest, and some dk decided to have a go.  Then his 2 dk friends decided to join in.  long story short, 2 of them ended up running away while I killed their friend who couldn't figure out how to kill void tendrils. 

[Guest garmeth06]

^^ I lol'd at this.  Was on the isle the other day on my disc priest, and some dk decided to have a go.  Then his 2 dk friends decided to join in.  long story short, 2 of them ended up running away while I killed their friend who couldn't figure out how to kill void tendrils. 

 

 

them dks

[Astynax 24]

Many people... much wow... such server.

[Astynax 24]

 

My new Home. Already glad to have made the switch.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Astynax

[Lockybalboa 618]

Welcome, brahdda!