Procs + CB & 1 more Q

[Zagam 1,982]

KTT cannot proc within a proc.  There's some hidden 10 second ICD that prevents this.  Jade Spirit, however, can proc within itself and extend its duration, similar to a DoT application without Pandemic.

[Guest garmeth06]

Also, PBI has trolled many of us.  Locky and I last night varied on horrible RNG when trying to burn Skeer on Heroic Paragons.  I had PBI not proc until Skeer was dead which is mathematically a chance of a snowball surviving in hell for 3 minutes.  He had a similar pull a few pulls before that.  PBI works as a 15% chance on spell hit to proc when not on the internal cooldown.  It SHOULD proc within 5-10 casts reliably, but every now and then, you'll get some shit RNG.

 

 

 

Sometimes I don't believe PBI's proc rate is as simple as 15%. Oh, the horrible mistreatment that that trinket has made me endure at times.

 

It seems to happen once or twice per raid that KTT wears off before my PBI proc comes and my opener dps drops by 150k. 

 

Honestly, since Blizz added in some "fun" random ppm trinkets, they should make the non-fun trinket proc rate like 30-50% IMO.

 

Also, can PBI proc on an immolate or rain of fire tick? Or is it just direct damage.

Edited March 13, 2014 by garmeth06

[Kazistrasz 216]

15% isn't very big. PBI can proc off of Immo, Rain, and basically all other offensive spells you have.

[Lothrandir 12]

Well, I, for one, am still interested in finding out what the actual proc chance calculation is, although it might be so complex that it isn't worth it. The closest I've come in my search so far is this:

 

RPPM proc chances aren't based on your weapon speed, they're dynamically calculated during combat based on the time since the last attack landed.

 

 

 

Source: http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/05/28/encrypted-text-rogues-and-rppm/#continued

 

But thank you for all the contributions on this :) The real proc-per-minute mechanics are definitely very interesting and challenging!

 

[Kazistrasz 216]

RPPM works like this:

 

When your spell or attack hits, the base chance to proc is determined bsed upon the cast speed, swing speed, tick speed, number of hits, etc. so that on average it should give you that many procs per minute regardless of which abilities you're using and how much haste you have.

 

The longer you go without a proc from an RPPM mechanic, the higher the proc chance is. Eventually, you are guaranteed a proc chance. This is why RPPM trinkets like KTT are so very reliable at the start of the fight when their time since last proc is set to 120 seconds when you pull.

[gahhda 95]

Back on topic from the RPPM debate to the question of the OP.

 

Once you get your set bonuses you should be dumping at 30 embers if you have the ember master proc up. 15% damage increase is small compared to a trinket proc, but with the reliability of this procing (outside of the icd of course) makes this a very worthwhile dps gain over the traditional 35+ pooling methods. If the icd isn't up when you hit 30 feel free to save up a bit more.

 

You can apply this methodology to small intellect procs or other such % damage increase to chaos bolt like crit/mastery. The only case where I would tell you to refrain from such action is if you know there is a HIGH chance of PBI procing, such as being 15 seconds after the icd comes up without a proc, making you significantly likely to have it happen soon.

Edited March 15, 2014 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,982]

Agreed, except I actually use the 4th ember capping as a dump at times.  It's not optimal, and I try not to do it here, but I will if PBI has <15 seconds to go and I haven't had a KTT proc in a while.  3 should be the default and only push to 4 in the scenario I listed.

[Nikalia 1]

Interesting trinket talk, me gusta. 

 

No PBI STILL.... we raid tonight, wish me luck for a HWF

What stinks is my GM is getting on my ass saying warlocks are op and I should be blowing the other DPS classes out of the water... we are all about 569 ilvl, but they all have PBI and I don't.... yet sometimes I still beat their openers. 

 

On the topic again of CB w/ procs and DS: my opener involves usually just BBoY stacks. That being said, a lock friend I have w/ PBI & KTT is telling me to not use DS immediately upon the pull, but to wait a second or two..... HE can do that, I cannot however, correct? Or am I wrong. 

 

So for example, he is prepotting on countdown, then pre-casting an incinerate, immolating, (I guess he doesn't have to place curse of ele he didn't mention it, but I do have to), THEN he uses dark soul and casts conflag x2, incin x4, CB x2 because his trinkets are lining up that way.

 

I can't fiddle around with that until I get PBI amirite? My BBoY is starting to stack on the get go, and sometimes I don't even have the haste to get backdraft down to just 2 stacks, I have to consume 3 in order to get my 2 cb's out during DS & BBoY. So for me... I should be sticking with the opener Zagam places in the destro tips and quirks of what I just described. 

 

I think I answered my own question but I just want to be sure I'm not being a nub. Lots of pressure on me to perform better before we merge our two raid groups for WoD and "trial" everyone. 

Edited March 19, 2014 by Nikalia

[Guest garmeth06]

Interesting trinket talk, me gusta. 

 

No PBI STILL.... we raid tonight, wish me luck for a HWF

What stinks is my GM is getting on my ass saying warlocks are op and I should be blowing the other DPS classes out of the water... we are all about 569 ilvl, but they all have PBI and I don't.... yet sometimes I still beat their openers. 

 

On the topic again of CB w/ procs and DS: my opener involves usually just BBoY stacks. That being said, a lock friend I have w/ PBI & KTT is telling me to not use DS immediately upon the pull, but to wait a second or two..... HE can do that, I cannot however, correct? Or am I wrong. 

 

So for example, he is prepotting on countdown, then pre-casting an incinerate, immolating, (I guess he doesn't have to place curse of ele he didn't mention it, but I do have to), THEN he uses dark soul and casts conflag x2, incin x4, CB x2 because his trinkets are lining up that way.

 

I can't fiddle around with that until I get PBI amirite? My BBoY is starting to stack on the get go, and sometimes I don't even have the haste to get backdraft down to just 2 stacks, I have to consume 3 in order to get my 2 cb's out during DS & BBoY. So for me... I should be sticking with the opener Zagam places in the destro tips and quirks of what I just described. 

 

I think I answered my own question but I just want to be sure I'm not being a nub. Lots of pressure on me to perform better before we merge our two raid groups for WoD and "trial" everyone. 

Well I armoried you to see if you had KTT, but it looks like you just got your PBI, nice. 

 

Its accepted now that you can consume backdraft stacks with chaos bolt in your opener, its not necessary to spend them on incinerate because your legendary meta + bloodlust will make your incinerate cast time so low that backdraft doesn't benefit them that much still.

 

What you want to do is prepot, precast incinerate, dark soul, immolate, 2x conflag, incinerate until two burning embers, 2 chaos bolts buffed by KTT, PBI, Dark soul, 4pc 15% crit buff, and Skull banner. And then refresh immolate so that your immolate is HUGE, then try to get a third chaos bolt off before your PBI and dark soul runs out.

Edited March 20, 2014 by garmeth06

[Zagam 1,982]

 Lots of pressure on me to perform better before we merge our two raid groups for WoD and "trial" everyone. 

Already?  With Mythic and WoD still 5 months away?  Surely you'll get a trinket by then.  Also, you can delay Dark Soul a bit, but I typically use it immediately after CoE to get my first Immolate buffed.  Early critical hits can give you a bonus Chaos Bolt within your 20 second opener.

[Nikalia 1]

I did get PBI last night!!! :D Tonight we're working on Shamans Heroic, of which I'm actually running destruction. I'm going to focus the far dog, target the near dog, keep RoF rolling from the start, F&B immolate onto all 4, conflag single target the one to consume backdraft, then glyph of havoc 2 cb's into the focused dog w/ everything popped. Super happy about PBI finally!! *squee*

 

Thinking of glyphing conflag still for slows on oozes to help, havoc, annnnd prob soulstone cuz it's progression. :/ 

[gahhda 95]

I did get PBI last night!!! Tonight we're working on Shamans Heroic, of which I'm actually running destruction. I'm going to focus the far dog, target the near dog, keep RoF rolling from the start, F&B immolate onto all 4, conflag single target the one to consume backdraft, then glyph of havoc 2 cb's into the focused dog w/ everything popped. Super happy about PBI finally!! *squee*

 

Thinking of glyphing conflag still for slows on oozes to help, havoc, annnnd prob soulstone cuz it's progression. :/ 

 

I usually throw a few incinerates out before havoc chaos bolting. Havoc chaos bolt is definitely a gain over aoe until 7+ targets though.

[Zagam 1,982]

I usually throw a few incinerates out before havoc chaos bolting. Havoc chaos bolt is definitely a gain over aoe until 7+ targets though.

Especially if you glyph it here.  Double Havoc mega-empowered CBs in opener?  Boom.  FnB allows you to rebuild Embers so you can Shadowburn the dogs.

[Nikalia 1]

We downed H shams first time :D I was top every fight except when I had to go walk a mile and rez a dude up the hill.... thanks for allllllll the help guys. Truly! 

 

And pbi ftmfw.

[Zagam 1,982]

Yes sir/ma'am.

[gahhda 95]

Especially if you glyph it here.  Double Havoc mega-empowered CBs in opener?  Boom.  FnB allows you to rebuild Embers so you can Shadowburn the dogs.

 

Depends on how much cleave you have, I can get off a second havoc before the dogs die without glyph, weeee 6 shadowburns.