Vindican 2 Report post Posted March 15, 2014 Glad you're seeing improvement, whats your gear look like now for reference? I'm ilvl 549 now, got some solid upgrades the other night on normal. Spent some time between training dummies and Simcraft this morning, and I'm able to consistently put out what I sim at over a 5m duration (light movement, Patch). I need to work on my council fights, though, and will probably start practicing affliction for those. I like to stun the first 5-6 slimes. Keeps the pack bunched up better. Yep, and that's what I've been doing. Shadowfury, Fire and Brimstone, spam conflag and incins with RoF up. They die super fast (we have another lock in the group too). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest garmeth06 Report post Posted March 15, 2014 (edited) I'm ilvl 549 now, got some solid upgrades the other night on normal. Spent some time between training dummies and Simcraft this morning, and I'm able to consistently put out what I sim at over a 5m duration (light movement, Patch). I need to work on my council fights, though, and will probably start practicing affliction for those. Yep, and that's what I've been doing. Shadowfury, Fire and Brimstone, spam conflag and incins with RoF up. They die super fast (we have another lock in the group too). Yea I hate council fights as destro tbh. I don't know, I find that most people switch to the slimes a few seconds late, in all of the flexs I have done and LFR in the last 2 weeks I've had well over 75% of the slime damage. In my 25 man in semi-casualish guild, our last dark shaman kill with 3 destros I had 35 mil slime damage and the next person had 15 mil. If you get there 3 seconds late and miss two possible incinerates per slime spawn, that can add up to well over 10 mil damage in a fight.. But if your other raiders are truly being diligent about killing the slimes then yea, you're doing great. I watch for the animation and I know where they will be before they spawn, rof already down and ready to blow them up. Edit: That aside, looking specifically at the new dark shaman you posted more carefully as i have time, you do have some significant mistakes because its a weird fight. 1. You casted only 1 fire and brimstone incinerate the entire fight, not a single cast on any of the slime spawns. Even ignoring the slimes this is a pretty big problem because your opener should be fire and brimstone spam, You should open with rain of fire, casting maybe 1 or 2 normal incinerates, then activating fire and brimstone and casting conflag+incinerate until you have enough embers to drop an immolate without losing fire and brimstone. You could alternatively rely on RNG and straight up cast immolate after Fire and Brimstone conflags, with dark soul it should be easy to sustain fire and brimstone in the opener. Regardless of when your trinket procs, you want to use havoc on something and consume it with shadowburn on the first wolf that dies, this will cause you to output HUGE damage in your opener and could have increased your overall dps by 30k alone. 2. Only three fire and brimstone conflags, only two used on the slimes 3. You casted five fire and brimstone immolates, three of which on the slimes, and one of which immediately after another F&B immolate. I have looked at a lot of logs for this fight and concluded, along with advice from here, that fire and brimstone immolate is just bad on the slimes. Its awkward because they all spawn at staggered times and ends up hurting your dps instead of helping. 4. No shadowburns in the opener, on the wolves, should see about 7 I think you were maybe a bit more relaxed since it was flex, but I don't think you're fully aware of when the slimes come out judging by your amount of casts, its no big deal though because that fight is a haze of color and random shit. If you fix all of these things I think you could see 330k dps. If you want a comparison log I will post my recent dark shaman fight because I think I'm really good at this fight in my opinion. My gear is 560 , so significantly better, but you can compare the amount of casts. -Rofldotz Also don't worry about immolate uptime on this fight, I find the slimes are up so much and are of higher priority that immolate is bound to fall off a lot. I usually refresh it if its around half a second before the slimes come out and then go to town. Honestly you're doing an awesome job for such a short time after a character switch. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RdbVXNYKM6LTvH3P#fight=21&type=damage-done Edited March 15, 2014 by garmeth06 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazistrasz 216 Report post Posted March 15, 2014 Alright, let's have a look see. First, IJ. I'm just going to give you what sticks out first and then go more and more detailed. I don't know why your group is using Lust at the very end - they should be hitting it on the pull. Incinerate was 31.85% of your damage, over 4% ahead of Chaos Bolt. This is a gigantic red flag that something isn't being done right. 991k average leaves some room for improvement. 92% uptime on Immolate is acceptable. 95%+ is better, but sometimes Chaos Bolt is just more important. However, having such little Chaos Bolt damage is worrying me. You were using GoSup, but I'm going to pass you since your armory looks like you just got your KTT during this set of flexes. From now on you should be using GoSac. You got all 18 casts off from your Terrorguard, which is good. Okay... now I see the big issue. Yu'lon's bite is a godawful trinket. So when you have two ICD trinkets like that, you really have to game it to fit as many CBs in that timespan as possible (aim for 4). Both YB and PBI were procing almost perfectly in sync. This is going to gimp your Chaos Bolt damage a bit by not having an RPPM in there during that 115 second ICD on both. Now you have KTT, though, so your average CB should improve. However, when you don't have any procs, you're at the point that I would start trying to get your Chaos Bolts when you get the 4pc proc if you can. When it's off ICD and you're about to hit three embers with neither trinket up, go ahead and make your next spell Chaos Bolt when you hit three embers to get that extra 15% on it. Now, let's talk about your Dark Soul usage. You're waiting to use it in your opener. Don't. Use it on the start. If ICD trinkets don't take too long to get their second proc, you'll be able to use DS right when they come up (don't let DS sit longer than 10 seconds though if you can avoid it). For a 4:11 fight, you should have gotten two full DS in and 11 seconds of a third. You instead got only two in, despite PBI and YB both proccing at the start, in the middle, and again for the last few seconds. Having your DS coming up here would alos let you save Shadowburns to immediately finish the boss strong. Last, your opener is a little concerning. Here's what you did: (Pre-pot) Conflag x2, CoE x2, Immo, Incin x4, DS, Terrorguard, CB x2, Immo Your opener should look like this: (Pre-pot) (Pre-cast) Incin > CoE > DS > Immo > Conflag x2 > Incin til 2 embers > CB x2 > Immo Pre-cast that Incinerate; it helps get that second ember filled faster. If you're far enough away, you can hit DS and Immo as well on your pre-cast before CoE and Incin won't land until the same time as Immo going off. Immo should go up before Conflag, and you absolutely should not be using Conflag before CoE. DS come before everything except that pre-cast Incin - waiting so long just hurts you. Don't waste a global during your opener on Terrorguard. The increase you'll see from it there at the start with procs (remember it updates dynamically) aren't worth near as much as taking advantage of everything running live. The goal of your opener is to quickly get that second ember and drop two Chaos Bolts in the first ten seconds while everything is going. Now that you have KTT instead of YB and PBI, this is even more important for you to fix. Not having the legendary meta is going to hurt a little bit, as is not being a troll, but it's still completely doable. Here's what happened in your opener: 21:06:34.589 - Start of fight 21:06:34.589 Conflagrate crit - +2 emberbits (1.2 total) 21:06:35.777 Conflagrate hit - +1 emberbit (1.3 total) 21:06:36.549 Curse of Elements 21:06.37.063 Curse of Elements 21:06:38.972 Immolate crit - +1 emberbit (1.5 total) 21:06:41.272 Incinerate hit - +1 emberbit (1.6 total) 21:06:41.362 Immolate tick 21:06:42.424 Incinerate hit - +1 emberbit (1.7 total) 21:06:43.761 Immolate tick 21:06:43.761 Incinerate hit - +1 emberbit (1.8 total) 21:06:43.988 Dark Soul: Instability used 21:06:45.134 Incinerate hit - +1 emberbit (1.9 total) 21:06:46.154 Immolate tick crit - +1 emberbit (2.0) total) 21:06:46.222 Ember Master (4pc) procs ... 21:06:48.358 Chaos Bolt #1 is cast 21:06:50.763 Chaos Bolt #2 is cast It took you 16.174 seconds to get two Chaos Bolts off. Here's roughly how this should look: Technically, where it says hit should say cast for these, but the emberbit will be coming shortly after -03.500 Pre-cast Incinerate start -01.250 Pre-cast Incinerate casts -01.250 Dark Soul: Instability Used -01.250 Pre-cast Immo start 00.000 Fight Starts 00.000 Pre-cast Incint hit +1 emberbit (1.1 total) 00.000 Pre-cast Immo hit +1 emberbit (1.2 total) 00.000 Curse of Elements 01.000 Blood Lust used by someone in your raid that isn't a scrub (roughly here, should be their first spell) 01.250 Conflagrate hit +1 emberbit (1.3 total) 02.000 Immolate tick 02.250 Conflagrate hit +1 emberbit (1.4 total) 03.250 Incinerate hit +1 emberbit (1.5 total) 04.000 Immolate tick 04.500 Incinerate hit +1 emberbit (1.6 total) 06.000 Immolate tick 06.000 Incinerate hit +1 emberbit (1.7 total) BY THIS POINT you have had 10 spell hits, AT LEAST three of which should have crit, giving you two embers. 06.000 Chaos Bolt #1 start 07.750 Chaos Bolt #1 cast 07.750 Chaos Bolt #2 start 09.750 Chaos Bolt #2 cast So, for you now, here is my assessment on where you are: You've got he basics down, and you're ready to start moving into some of the more advanced playing. You should start working on snapshotting with your 4pc proc when possible. You really need to practice improving your opener. Cheers! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Just some logs as an update - if Zag or others want to take a quick peek and point out anything glaring I still need to improve on, please let me know (name is Unlivingston now - I did a race change). Otherwise, those tips are working WONDERFULLY. Still getting used to some things and still find myself capping from time to time, but more and more those times are unavoidable (AOE situations like reflections on Sha, etc.). Thanks again for all the help, guys! After a quick glance I realize I need to work on my Immo uptime, so that's what I'm going to focus on this week. Can I get a testimony as to what your DPS improvement is most attributed to? Was it... 1) Gameplay fixes 2) Secondary stat fixes Pls respond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liquidsteel 279 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Zagam's on a rampage. I think it was option 2 :p Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 I was afraid this would come back up - I tried to burn this issue a while ago, but with so many new Warlocks, it feels like it's coming alive again... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazistrasz 216 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 It's always option 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest garmeth06 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Can I get a testimony as to what your DPS improvement is most attributed to? Was it... 1) Gameplay fixes 2) Secondary stat fixes Pls respond Option 3) Frenzied Crystal of Rage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 It's always option 2. Option 3) Frenzied Crystal of Rage I will ban both of you. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keefbeef 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 Hey Zag, How much haste do I need to reforge into to make my gameplay better (as you suggest)? /e runs and hides Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted March 17, 2014 If I was versed in creating memes, there's a very select one I'd generate for questions like that. It wouldn't be the happy one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vindican 2 Report post Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Can I get a testimony as to what your DPS improvement is most attributed to? Was it... 1) Gameplay fixes 2) Secondary stat fixes Pls respond Definitely 2. Ever since I started stacking spirit, my DPS has skyrocketed! Seriously though, it's all mechanics and gameplay. I'm getting better every week, and while it may pale in comparison to parses and execution you might be used to, I'm damned proud of the logs from last night. I flub my opener from time to time, but I'm getting a lot better at it: (Sha kill opener), rest of logs are on that link as well. Edited March 20, 2014 by Vindican Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah, you look much improved. Nice job - keep the push. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
