wow The Jailer's Torments Are Not Intended as a Time Limit in Torghast

[Starym 3,801]

Blizzard have gone into detail clarifying the intent behind the Jailer's Torments mechanics that some have presumed were designed as a timer for the Torghast experience, intended to prevent players from going at their own pace. As they explain, this isn't true, as the main goal is to prevent players from having to wait for the big cooldowns in order to be optimal and clear the harder floors.

Definitely check out the full explanation, as it's enlightening and should alleviate some worries:

Torghast (source)

We agree that one of the best things about Torghast is that you can play at your own pace, without feeling rushed. We certainly don’t want to make Torghast into a fast-paced, timed game mode. We have instead added Torments, which are designed to provide some additional texture for players at high levels, and to solve a problem that arises when extremely difficult content meets our often cooldown-based class design.

Here’s what Torments should do.

Imagine a perfectly-efficient Torghast group. They are willing to do whatever it takes to climb the tower. At the highest difficulty they can manage, that means waiting for all cooldowns on every pull – unless there’s some reason not to do so. This is our problem: that’s not fun to play, but it’s the right way to play if you want to win.

Torments should apply just enough pressure that this group can still kill every single creature on the floor (which takes a while, since these enemies have lots of HP), while still being careful, using crowd control, taking a few seconds to rest or strategize between pulls, and even then, maybe sometimes waiting just a little longer for a cooldown before engaging. If that is the most efficient way to play Torghast, then we’ve hit our mark exactly. If that perfectly efficient group has to skip big portions of a floor because Torment debuffs are getting too out of hand, we have a problem.

Here’s what Torments shouldn’t do.

• Make Torghast into a fast-paced, time-constrained feature that feels too similar to existing timed features like Mythic Keystone Dugeons, Horrific Visions, or Island Expeditions.
• Prevent you from taking a break when you need one.
• Intimidate casual players from playing Torghast altogether.

How can testers help us tune it?

Playtest Torghast, and let us know how it feels. We appreciate all feedback, and the most valuable feedback for this feature will come from experience in Torghast, rather than discussions about time-based difficulty that aren’t informed by in-game experience.

If something feels bad, let us know why.

• Did you feel rushed when you didn’t want to? Was that pressure because of actual game difficulty, or was it simply the presence of the Torment itself?
• Were you unable to defeat a level because of Torments, even though you were playing at a normal pace?
• Did you want to take a break mid-run but felt like you couldn’t?
• Do you feel like Torments are appropriate, but should be introduced at a higher level than they currently are (12)?
• Alternately, did a particular Torment feel underwhelming? Do you still feel like you can wait 10 minutes between every single pull without threat of being overwhelmed?

There are several different Torments in the current Alpha. Some affect spawning and environment, and others affect your character directly. Some increase over time, and others remain at a fixed difficulty.

• How do they feel in comparison to one another?
• Does a particular Torment feel more punishing or unfun than the others?

We’ve seen some emotional response to this change, which we take to mean that you care about Torghast being fun. We do too.

Please keep up the productive discussions, and we’ll keep listening.

Latest Shadowlands Alpha Build 34365 News

• Shadowlands Alpha 9.0.1 Build 34365: Class Changes
• Druid & Paladin Class Feedback
• Jailer's Torments Clarifications
• Torghast Starting Area Updated
• Are Jailer's Torments the True Torghast Timer?
• Blade Flurry Taken Off GCD in 9.0.1 Build 34365
• Torghast Developer Update: May 13th

[belhaven28 7]

I can see what they're trying to go for with this statement but they essentially said "this isn't meant to be a timer but here is why we put a timer in place".

[IjShadow 0]

I think a simple fix, and i'm sure others have said this already, would be to have break floors that pause those timers. It would allow for players to catch their breath, get up if they need to, or plan for upcoming floors. I think about games like FTL that have non-encounter options as you move through the game that give the players the option to repair their ship or gain more resources, while still having the option to move onto another encounter if they want. Potentially it could look like having a 2nd portal every 10 (or 5) floors that instead of just moving on takes you to a small room that pauses the timer giving you that break if you want it. Then whenever you are ready you can move right along to the next floor.

[Starym 3,801]

30 minutes ago, IjShadow said:

I think a simple fix, and i'm sure others have said this already, would be to have break floors that pause those timers. It would allow for players to catch their breath, get up if they need to, or plan for upcoming floors. I think about games like FTL that have non-encounter options as you move through the game that give the players the option to repair their ship or gain more resources, while still having the option to move onto another encounter if they want. Potentially it could look like having a 2nd portal every 10 (or 5) floors that instead of just moving on takes you to a small room that pauses the timer giving you that break if you want it. Then whenever you are ready you can move right along to the next floor.

They do have that, when you enter a floor the debuff doesn't start until you move in a little.

[Stan 5,240]

It's still a timer no matter how you call it. If someone has the time to be inside Torghast for a whole day waiting for cooldowns to pop up in between pulls, then, so be it.

[Skyewalker 20]

Disregard all complicated fixes, Torments, and timer-like soft caps. Just implement ONE internal mechanic that: 

>>>

!! stops all your cooldowns from recovering after spending 30 seconds (or 1 minute) out of combat. !!

>>>

1) people can take 2 hour long breaks and start right where they left off. No harassment.

2) It makes purposely waiting for Heroism or big cooldowns after each pull impossible. Slight pauzes to wait for the last 20 seconds before your big CD has reset is still viable in this manner. 

3) no stupid 'fixes' that harass you as a player. No extra mechanics needed. 

 

If you want to fix excessive waiting for CDs, JUST FIX THAT. Stop breaking the gamemode for one specific issue.

 

Sure. you can, in extreme cases, abuse in-combat. But that is not a game-breaking thing. At least it requires you to pay attention to your CC'd target or to the mob you are kiting for combat. So it might not be worth it and other players can enjoy Thorghast in peace.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Skyewalker

[Migol 433]

I mean, all jokes aside we're talking about bloodlust right?    Maybe Army of the Dead, aside from those two I can't really think of any major cooldowns that matter in a Torghast run?

Rather than put a timer* on the run, just limit it to one act of bloodlust/army per floor instead?    Which you could potentially up by getting certain stacking powers, IE "Once per floor, after using Bloodlust/Heroism you may use it one more time".    

The torments as they've described them sound _annoying_.    Maybe they won't break your run,  but it'll be a lot less enjoyable if you have to heal up before a pull or deal with random spawns or such.