wow The Great Vault Mythic Dungeons Item Choices Explained

[Skayan 52]

You people really want this game to become a chinese mmorpg where you just log in, collect daily rewards and turn on autoplay?
I mean c'mon, you already have guaranteed reward for doing only 1 mythic dungeon weekly. You can farm enough gold for +15 boost in a week and have high ilvl items in the chest. People who do mythic+ often than... well... never... will benefit from this change. If you do only one dungeon per week and you're sad because now you feel like you have to do more, just stop.
I quit WoW at the beginning of BfA and came back for 8.3, while i was doing all the rep grinds i wished this game instead of daily and world quests wanted me to do more raids/dungeons, where you actually play the game and here we are, they encourage players to do more dungeons, this means more groups. That's a step in a good direction.

[Bobbis 208]

6 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

This just makes me laugh how unbearable some people are they want to do nothing at all and entitle themself to best of choices, there should be a difference between player who do all content and play more than 20 mythic+ runs ( because they love it ) with player who only do it 1 time a week and that difference is more choices from weekly chest ( nor more loot ) if you have family if you have work then instead of *filtered* asking for best of best options just play with the time you have and get your random item, right now doing a full Castle Nathria and 1 mythic dungeon gives you 4 choice options this is huge step in right *filtered* direction and you say this system sucks  just because don't have time to actually play the game ? and you think you are equal with players play the and unlike you have time to spend ? so new system is the problem? no you are the problem, i played this game on different levels to see some people are basic idiots they just want everything without spending time without actually playing the game and look at the criteria needed for more choices : 15 mythic dungeons for 3 choices? this is nothing absolutely nothing. full clear of first instance of expansion Castle Nathria ? playing PVP for earning 250 conquest points? is this too much? ain't this what you actually do in the WOW? NO you don't? you have family? you don't have time? then don't *filtered* play the game do something else .problem in you not this system or the game, you dont even have to do this you will get your item nonetheless .this are just for more choices. i don't usually post like this this is the first time but this is just unbearable, i asked 100 players with different play time and level about this article and they all laughed at this people so the point? this things are good and fun to explore for actual WOW players but not for ...

It's great that you can play 24/7 and put the 20 hours or so in required for the 6 pve options (1 hour per M+ for timer, travel time, group forming, 5 hours for raid assuming split over 2 nights as my guild does). 

Now that's part time job hours, PER character. Imagine wanting to have an alt. 

This is the issue at play here. We happy to work for things, hell I've spent the last week on OSRS enjoying the grind to level smithing/mining. Simple case of hours in, bars/gear got. This however is another 20 hours, for the chance of 6 flops, and a 7th random. 

Added to this, there's only 8 dungeons currently planned. So they're going to get real old, real fast.

[Bobbis 208]

5 minutes ago, Skayan said:

You people really want this game to become a chinese mmorpg where you just log in, collect daily rewards and turn on autoplay?
I mean c'mon, you already have guaranteed reward for doing only 1 mythic dungeon weekly. You can farm enough gold for +15 boost in a week and have high ilvl items in the chest. People who do mythic+ often than... well... never... will benefit from this change. If you do only one dungeon per week and you're sad because now you feel like you have to do more, just stop.
I quit WoW at the beginning of BfA and came back for 8.3, while i was doing all the rep grinds i wished this game instead of daily and world quests wanted me to do more raids/dungeons, where you actually play the game and here we are, they encourage players to do more dungeons, this means more groups. That's a step in a good direction.

No, but we equally don't want it to become a slave driver.

We're looking for middle ground here. Stop reading every comment against this plan as "gief free stuffz", it's not. It's just that this is TOO much.

[JayTee 0]

In a top tier raid guild doing 15 mythic dungeons will be mandatory, you will probably be benched/punished for not getting your character up to the level it can be.  This is how mythic raiding works and if you don't think that doing 15 mythic dungeons in a week is way too much, i don't know where to start with how many problems this will cause. 

There needs to be a better system this isn't going to be good enough

[Ghoullove 7]

People seem to not understand that this is a system that rewards dedication in addition to what you're doing now.

• If you do 1 +15 key you get a +15 item just like now.
• If you want to get the choice between two +15 items (which is doubling the chance to receive an item you want!) you need to do four more +15 runs.
• Now if you still aren't happy with choosing from two items but want a third option you'll have to do 10 more +15 runs.
• You will still, however, only get one single item per week, which means it's only about potential for optimization.

Now some people are complaining about how it'd make it impossible to help guildies or alts with lower keys but do lower keys affect your loot in any way? NO! And here's why:

• If you do 1 +15 and up to three low keys you get 1 +15 item.
• If you do 1 +15 and four to thirteen low keys you get the choice between 1 +15 item and 1 lower-tier item.
• If you were to do 5 +15s in your up to 14 runs you'd get the choice between 2 +15 items, without low keys affecting this at all.
• If you were to do 1 +15 and 14+ low keys you'd get the choice between 1 +15 item and 2 lower-tier items.
• If you were to do 5 +15s in your >= 15 runs that week you'd get the choice between 2 +15 items and one lower-tier item.
• If you were to do 15 +15 and any number of low keys you'd get the choice between 3 +15 items, without low keys affecting this at all.

In summary this means that low keys will have no negative influence on your available loot. If you want to help out guildies or friends with low keys you can do that without negative impact due to the fact that if

• You already qualify for the next choice (1 / 5 / 15 M+ done) it won't influence the ilvl of your rewards
• You do not qualify for the next choice it won't influence the ilvl of the rewards you currently get but give you an additional option, though with a lower ilvl.
• You qualify for all three tiers of choice it won't change anything because it's not calculated into the reward ilvl.

Now I get why people complain but if you want to play top-tier you have to go the extra mile and do all the Mythic bosses, all the +15 keys and all the PvP to get maximum choice.
If you don't you can just kill 3 Mythic bosses or do 1 +15 key or earn 100 Conquest and win a game on Glad rating and you'll get you weekly maximum-ilvl item.
You do not need to do all the content for higher ilvl or more loot, just for choice. If you have no need for maximum optimization you don't actually need this. If you have the need you will go the extra mile for any advantage anyways and appreciate the system.

If you don't finish the objectives you're not dedicated enough to earn the benefits. That's it.

[solitha 84]

18 hours ago, Ravenclaw89 said:

Sorry I didn't get it... If I do 15 M+10... I will get a +6 item on the slot 3? 

Yeah it took me a bit to get it too. This is what you're seeing above:

For each week, take all your M+ runs and list them in order. For slot 1 you'll just get loot from the highest number on the list (shown above as M+10). For slot two, you look at the top 5 and note the lowest number of those five (a M+9 in the example, as only 4 M+10s were done). For slot 3, look at the top 15 and note the lowest number of those fifteen (M+6 in the example).

In your own example, if your top 15 list is entirely M+10, then all three slots will be M+10.

[solitha 84]

18 hours ago, Jotham said:

Yes, you'll get a +6 on slot 3 but you'll get a +10 on slot 1. So if you do a +10 at all, you're good for getting a +10 piece. But you can't do a +10 and then a whole bunch of +5s and expect to get beter gear. 

 

No. It is confusing, isn't it?

In the example of the person you were answering, with 15 M+10s for the week, all three slots would be M+10. Their list of top 15 runs for the week would be entirely M+10, so the lowest number on each list (top, top 5, top 15) would also be M+10.

In your example, "a +10 and then a whole bunch (at least 14) of +5s" you would get a +10 in slot one, and +5 in slots 2 and 3.

[Lawrenz 105]

6 hours ago, Ghoullove said:

Now some people are complaining about how it'd make it impossible to help guildies or alts with lower keys but do lower keys affect your loot in any way? NO! And here's why:

It would be nice if you qouted posts that you refer to, and since i am one of "those" as well, who braught up this kind of argument, i suppose you read my messages as well, and still miss the point.

The thing that i, and some other people as well, want to bring across is, that many people, including me, dont have the time to put in all this shitload of work for just another choice.

6 hours ago, Ghoullove said:

You do not need to do all the content for higher ilvl or more loot, just for choice. If you have no need for maximum optimization you don't actually need this. If you have the need you will go the extra mile for any advantage anyways and appreciate the system.

It's clear how the system works, to me at least (can't speak for the others), the post was pretty detailed (good job Stan), but this choice was supposed to fix the frustration many players have with the weekly cache. And those who dont have the time, and can just do one high key, what do they get in this "fix"? exactly nothing.

In my earlier post i mentioned, that this is supposed to be a fix, and not a new feature. And how it turns out to be, there is nothing to appreciate here.

I had high hopes for this, and if it stays like this, it means nothing to me, so nothing changed. And THAT is what's frustrating.

6 hours ago, Ghoullove said:

If you don't finish the objectives you're not dedicated enough to earn the benefits. That's it.

 

This is proof, that you didnt get the point of me and the others arguing against this.

And it's not like everyone wants free stuff, we just mention how those expectations for dungeon runs are way way to high, and just neckbeards earn the privilege of choice. And everyone else can f**k off with their 5th bracers in a row. (<- happened to me)

It's surprising to me, how passionately people defend this vault thing, because it's another opportunity to nolife the game and get ahead of the "noobs". Thinking of "having fun" seems impossible at this point. And it is in Beta ffs, so let's keep it down a notch, and discuss how possible changes could look like.

[Dreamcatcher 66]

@Lawrenz DUDE in this new FEATURE (not FIX) you will get 3 choices from full castle nathria raid clear ( do it on LFR or normal or whatever and BOOM 3 choices ) + do 1 mythic dungeon and BOOM 4 choices + play 2-3 BG or Arenas and BOOM 5 choices, ain't that enough for casual player? or you can get important currency in the game instead of gear ain't that good? 

instead of rep grind we have renown for unlocking the flying and instead for questing for gaining renown ( which i love about a mmorpg game ) you can do 1 single dungeon of that zone and BOOM you are done for the day. ain't this good? a good thing?

@Bobbis so clearing 1 LFR or normal raid ( which you can complete through entire week ) + 2x mythic dungeons + 1x BG takes 20 hours a day for you?!!! then just QUIT WOW?!!

[Lawrenz 105]

1 hour ago, Dreamcatcher said:

@Lawrenz DUDE in this new FEATURE (not FIX) you will get 3 choices from full castle nathria raid clear ( do it on LFR or normal or whatever and BOOM 3 choices ) + do 1 mythic dungeon and BOOM 4 choices + play 2-3 BG or Arenas and BOOM 5 choices, ain't that enough for casual player? or you can get important currency in the game instead of gear ain't that good?

It was announced back in the day as "hey, we know people are fed up getting the same bracers all the time in the weekly cache. We are looking into giving a little bit of a choice there" all to lessen the frustration with it. That got my hopes up, and yeah, now it turned out to be a "FEATURE", which was announced to fix frustration ended up putting much work onto you. How can you be happy about this?

And seriously, if mythic dungeons additional choices are dependent on the difficulty of the runs, how could you possibly think that this is not the case with raids? if you do LFR bosses, your additional choices will be lfr ilvl crap. To keep up with your +15s i guess you have to do HC bosses upwards. (IF you can really just rush through LFRs to get your 3 Additional choices, and end up with 4 choices all the same ilvl as your +15 run, that would be easy as hell, and another reason to make it similarly easy for dungeons, because it just doesnt make sense. Anyways doubt this...)

And frankly i am not a raider, neither am i a pvpr. So all i got is doing deungeons with my friends. The promise of "more choice" is hereby broken, and i will end up with 1 or sometimes 2 items in my weekly cache if i find the time for it.

1 hour ago, Dreamcatcher said:

instead of rep grind we have renown for unlocking the flying and instead for questing for gaining renown ( which i love about a mmorpg game ) you can do 1 single dungeon of that zone and BOOM you are done for the day. ain't this good? a good thing?

woohoo, they lessened the WQ grind. this has nothing to do with the actual problem. And to be honest, they had to do this, because you will mainly grind your stuff in the maw, and then spent much time in torghast. The main feature? forgot about that?

[Ravenclaw89 27]

9 hours ago, solitha said:

Yeah it took me a bit to get it too. This is what you're seeing above:

For each week, take all your M+ runs and list them in order. For slot 1 you'll just get loot from the highest number on the list (shown above as M+10). For slot two, you look at the top 5 and note the lowest number of those five (a M+9 in the example, as only 4 M+10s were done). For slot 3, look at the top 15 and note the lowest number of those fifteen (M+6 in the example).

In your own example, if your top 15 list is entirely M+10, then all three slots will be M+10.

Get it! Thank you so much. Now I see it's quite logical. 

 

[Whiterhino 31]

It should be 1/3/5 to make the difficulty remain relevant as well as allow more alt friendliness. Someone who doesn't eat and breathe M+ will probably never do 15 every week, but someone who does can easily do the raid and conquest. Just needs a little balancing and it's perfect, but other than that I love this change. Wish they would put it in BFA now

[Bobbis 208]

13 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

@Lawrenz DUDE in this new FEATURE (not FIX) you will get 3 choices from full castle nathria raid clear ( do it on LFR or normal or whatever and BOOM 3 choices ) + do 1 mythic dungeon and BOOM 4 choices + play 2-3 BG or Arenas and BOOM 5 choices, ain't that enough for casual player? or you can get important currency in the game instead of gear ain't that good? 

instead of rep grind we have renown for unlocking the flying and instead for questing for gaining renown ( which i love about a mmorpg game ) you can do 1 single dungeon of that zone and BOOM you are done for the day. ain't this good? a good thing?

@Bobbis so clearing 1 LFR or normal raid ( which you can complete through entire week ) + 2x mythic dungeons + 1x BG takes 20 hours a day for you?!!! then just QUIT WOW?!!

It is a fix, not a feature. As Lawrenz pointed out. Issue - 1 item, usually rubbish, often the same slot as an existing item, hell my DH got the same mecha bracers 3 times in a row now. Fix originally announced - a choice of items, and if they're all rubbish, say no and get a random item. "Feature" - grind like *filtered* peasants

As for your 20 hour remark, what are you reading? 20 hours was for 15 +15 keys, and 2 raid nights using my guilds 2 2.5 hour raid nights. Even explained that in the comment. 

At your point of doing LFR or normal, you're missing something. They'll follow the same logic of ilvl given. Going by current ilvls, LFR is 430, norm 445, hc 460, Mythic 475. Doing the LFR/norm bosses would give me the 430/445 option, vs a 475 for my +15, vs a 445(?) maybe for the pvp side, as I'm 1800 on my druid I think (only did it for CaS). 

Otherwise we'd be able to do a single +15 and then spam 14 M0s for 3 475 items, clear LFR for another 3, and whack out 250 CP for 9 475 options, Christmas comes early in your world perhaps?

[Perak 25]

I dont like how they put together choice for PvP and PvE. In my case, PvP and PvE should be separate...but nwm.

Doing 5 hight M+ should be possible for most casual players (at least with some standard party and even time depleted M+ count) while 15 are mostly for those who dont do anything else. And puting raid loot to choose from chest should change dungeon week bonus in my opinion..like the M+ requmens are halved so you dont need 1/5/15 but 1/3/7...as of now, most M+ take about 30min to finish in time, it doesnt take that much. 

Helping friends with lower keys - if you want to have more choices of the same ilvl, you will have to do that 1/5/15 dungs of hight keys anyway so the diference will be that you will have less time to help your friends :S

    example - you want to have 2 option to choose from..so you do 5x M10 or M15 w/e...so you spend about 2 and 1/2hours on doing that from just 1/2 hour of just doing 1 for one weekly as we have now, than doing low keys with your friends..and if you do a lot of them you can open the 3rd option which you can use for trans or just sell it (i case you dont need first 2 options)...as ilvl will go down with ilvl/lvl squish there will be not much diference in some cases (at start of SL ofc)

Diference between number of Raid bosses and number of M+ - you should know, that you can kill raid boss once for loot chance + coin..so you will mostly spend time on each difficulty of raid only once per week. While on other hand, you can spam the same M+ dung of the same lvl again and again until you run through of that dung with eyes closed, with the same chance on lood drop be it 1st time or the 8569th time ?

 

All in all, i do normal raid progres not some HC...so i will have 2-3 choices from that + 1-2 from dungs (i dont like pvp ? ) so having to choice of averange  3 items (2 in worst case if i slack and 5 in ideal case) is still prety nice and im sure, that with later in expansion i will mostly choose most expensive item sell to vendor or item for transmo ?

[miggfo 12]

Some people just need to accept that they will not get the maximum amount of reward all the time, especially in this case where it is just a reroll of sorts. If you don't want to run 15 M+s, you don't have to unless you are in a top 10 raiding guild. You seriously just do not have to. 

If you don't enjoy it, do not do it. If you are placing so much value on an extrinsic reward- the small chance of getting a more desirable item in that 3rd slot- that you will spend hours of your time in a way you don't enjoy, you need to reassess your priorities and decisionmaking process.

You don't have to get every tier of rewards all the time.  The maximum tier can just be some nice extra thing that some people enjoy getting on occasion.

Anyway, I'm not saying Blizzard's design is perfect, I wouldn't have designed it this way myself- but I also don't know what considerations they have to think about. But the way some of you think about this is really, really warped and indicates a need for self reflection.

Edited August 4, 2020 by miggfo

[Lulain 0]

On 8/1/2020 at 8:36 PM, Helas101 said:

So for everyone that still dont understand this, if you did a +15 you will get one item choice for your +15 just like it is now. If you did 5x +15 you get two +15 item choices.

But now you get lazy and spam 10x +2 keys to get the third +15 item choice for free?

That would be a broken system where everyone runs one +15 and fourteen +2 keys.

Playing lower keys wont affect your lootbox in a negative way, but Blizzard wants you to do 15x +15 for a third(!) +15 item choice and im fine with that.

Gosh.  So what you are saying is the best players are ONLY going to do the better dungeons because there is ZERO incentive to help out in those 2-3-4-5-6 etc to help other less skilled players?     You are right. 

What this system encourages is me to do 5/15 of the best dungeons i can because the lowest dungeon determines my loot.  Which is a shame.  It makes me less likely to "go back" and help others.   Can you imagine if i did 4 10s and then a 2 to help a guildie instead of a 10 and then didn't have time to do more?     now i've lost loot options because i was a nice guy.   sorry for being "lazy".  

It SHOULD be do 1 = like today.  do 5 = 2 pieces based on the top 2 dungeons.  do 15 get 3 pieces based on top 3.    or you could average it.  Do 5 get 2nd piece based on average of top 3.     Do 15, and 3rd piece is average of top 5.    So that would encourage people to do 15, while still allowing the best to do 5 of the best for the best loot options - and their expertise will then naturally be used for 10 more helping others.  

[Darkwidow 0]

On 8/1/2020 at 1:01 PM, Ravenclaw89 said:

Sorry I didn't get it... If I do 15 M+10... I will get a +6 item on the slot 3? 

No, if you do 15 +10s then your lowest will be a +10 so you will get +10 loot. If you do 14 +10s and a +6 then you will get +6 loot.

[Darkwidow 0]

On 8/1/2020 at 6:02 PM, Pitty211 said:

What a let down.. sorry guildies. Your on your own this xpac.

This is not the case, if you do one +10 you will get +10 gear. If you do 5 +10 you will get 2 options for +10 gear if you do 5 +10s and 5 +2's to help guildies you will get 2 options for +10 gear and an option for +2 gear. If you were to make your +10s at 10 before helping anyone then you will get 3 chances at +10 gear no matter what else you run.