wow Great Vault Weekly Requirements Significantly Changed

[Starym 3,800]

 

The Great Vault aka the new weekly chest had received a lot of criticism lately, specifically for its Mythic+ and PvP requirements. In its previous iteration, while ranks 1 and 2 seemed fine, you had to successfully complete 15 M+ runs to get the 3rd rank, compared to 10 raid bosses downed and a measly 250 Conquest Points.

(Image courtesy of Baratheus)

In today's beta build these numbers have been heavily modified, as the M+ ranks have become easier, while the PvP ones much harder:

Mythic+:

• Rank 1: 1 M+ (unchanged)
• Rank 2:  4 M+ (1 less)
• Rank 3: 10 M+ (5 less)

PvP:

• Rank 1: 125 Conquest (25 more)
• Rank 2: 350 Conquest (200 more)
• Rank 3: 875 Conquest (625 more)

Raids:

• Unchanged

And so unlocking the third choice from M+ has become much easier, while all three in PvP are harder, with the third being a lot more demanding. Also remember, these are just additional choices, you will still only receive 1 piece of loot per week.

For more information on the new weekly chest system, check out our full preview.

[Whiterhino 31]

10 mythic dungeons is still a lot....the 3rd tier for raiding is 10 bosses. That's like saying each raid boss is approximately 30+ minutes. This whole system was supposed to revolve around more player choice and while I feel this system is good and enticing more gameplay for more options it just seems like a really stressful chore with this much work. I think the dungeons should be 1/3/5 and the conquest was probably a tad low before, but now it seems incredibly high. Probably match the dungeons at 100/300/500?

[Darkclaw 23]

11 minutes ago, Whiterhino said:

10 mythic dungeons is still a lot....the 3rd tier for raiding is 10 bosses. That's like saying each raid boss is approximately 30+ minutes. This whole system was supposed to revolve around more player choice and while I feel this system is good and enticing more gameplay for more options it just seems like a really stressful chore with this much work. I think the dungeons should be 1/3/5 and the conquest was probably a tad low before, but now it seems incredibly high. Probably match the dungeons at 100/300/500?

10 m+ still a lot?, man...

[Halock 156]

20 minutes ago, Whiterhino said:

This whole system was supposed to revolve around more player choice and while I feel this system is good and enticing more gameplay for more options it just seems like a really stressful chore with this much work.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out. 

If it's there, you do feel you have to do it. It's not as simple as telling people they don't have to. 

And I think this system could go either way. People could feel like they have to fill out the 10, or they could realise that practically it's not worth their time and receive their reward anyway. It could be a pleasant incentive to run 1-2 dungeons more a week -- or a grinding demand to.

Technically speaking it can't go wrong. It's literally the same system we have now except that choice scales. The change is positive. More choice if you play more, but no less reward. (Well, technically not two chests, but then also no obligation to do PvE and PvP. Seems fair.)

It's all down to perception.

I tilt towards it going well. I think we'll all dread it going into the expansion but in practice we'll do exactly as we do now -- run 1 big dungeon a week to get our reward. It's usually a large enough iLevel it's pretty safe, despite the randomness. If we're playing actively we'll hit the second slot naturally. If we're particularly enthusiastic, we'll shoot for the third. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Halock

[Halock 156]

8 minutes ago, Darkclaw said:

10 m+ still a lot?, man...

It's a lot if you consider it something that has to be done. If your mythics take about 20 minutes that's three solid hours every week. As an obligation. Closing in on 10 hours playtime every week if you have an alt for each role. 

10 will probably be easy for anybody who's really pushing content. But for most of us nabs, it'd be nasty.

So, again, it comes down to whether you feel you have to do it. Technically, you don't.

[Pommespresse 1]

875 conquest points seems much?

The rest seems ok. But if nothing on getting these points will change, some arena wins might do the trick. 

Still a quite steep increase from rank 2 to rank 3 for the weekly chest. ?

[calledyouout 16]

Raid bosses - Fine.

M+ should be 7 - Why 7?  Well the last time i remember something being successful but not mandatory was daily herioc and weekly catchup.  Easy enough to do 1 quick M+ a day or a few if you are on a roll/ doing catchup.

 

As for arena first two ranks are fine but the last level should be 700.

700 is a fair ammount. You get roughly 10 for an arena win, I can imagine there being extra activities for conquest like 50 for a quest or something.

 

[Frogspoison 63]

4 hours ago, Whiterhino said:

10 mythic dungeons is still a lot....the 3rd tier for raiding is 10 bosses. That's like saying each raid boss is approximately 30+ minutes. This whole system was supposed to revolve around more player choice and while I feel this system is good and enticing more gameplay for more options it just seems like a really stressful chore with this much work. I think the dungeons should be 1/3/5 and the conquest was probably a tad low before, but now it seems incredibly high. Probably match the dungeons at 100/300/500?

If you can do 10 Raid Bosses quickly, you can also do 10 M+ quickly. It's not like you have to do a +15 to unlock a higher tier, just have to do 10 M+, it seems like even +2s count.

[calledyouout 16]

13 minutes ago, Frogspoison said:

If you can do 10 Raid Bosses quickly, you can also do 10 M+ quickly. It's not like you have to do a +15 to unlock a higher tier, just have to do 10 M+, it seems like even +2s count.

That isn't entirely accurate.

the M+  Community is toxic an relies too heavily on Rader IO.

I can get into a raid (normal) very easily at IL 450 on an alt without achieve.

I can't get into a M +3 with my main that has multiple 15s in time and IL 472. Doing 10 bosses is significantly quicker and easier for the vast majority of players.

Think about what they are doing here, they are rewarding those who play more and those who don't....well no change right? Who cares if you get less choice, you don't play enough to care about it.

[Asakash 22]

You're forgetting, that the quality of the gear in the great vault depends on the difficulty of your content.

To get 9 top options, you'll need to do all the arena matches on like probably 2100 mmr, 10 m+ on 15+, and 10 raid bosses on mythic. 

[Lawrenz 105]

43 minutes ago, calledyouout said:

Think about what they are doing here, they are rewarding those who play more and those who don't....well no change right? Who cares if you get less choice, you don't play enough to care about it.

exactly. And Ion promised us to give more choice. In the end its just for the guys that play "enough" to keep up. This reduction is still not enough.

43 minutes ago, calledyouout said:

I can't get into a M +3 with my main that has multiple 15s in time and IL 472. Doing 10 bosses is significantly quicker and easier for the vast majority of players.

This is exactly my problem with this change as well. People with big guilds who run 15s easily and push keys, and always have a group at hand, they get not only the raid choices, but also the dungeon choices easier than someone who tries to build groups. the search for players often times takes longer than the run itself, if its not trolled by an overgeared guy, who seemingly bought this account because he doesnt know anything about the dungeons, despite having all the highend gear...

 

1 hour ago, Frogspoison said:

If you can do 10 Raid Bosses quickly, you can also do 10 M+ quickly. It's not like you have to do a +15 to unlock a higher tier, just have to do 10 M+, it seems like even +2s count.

no it doesnt. For the t3 dungeon choice (do 10 dungeons) the LOWEST of your highest 10 runs determines the quallity of your choice.
If you do 1 +15, 2 +14, 1 +3 and 6 +2, that would make your t1 choice +15 of course, but your t2 choice is +3, the lowest of the highest 4, and the last choice will be just a +2

Thats the main issue for me and many others, that you have to do 4 and 10 +15s in order to get any options in the vault. I hoped for a easier solution, since it's supposed to fix the frustration with the weekly cache.

Like i said in the beginning, this reduction is not enough.

Make the choices easier to achive, but lock the tiers. So no one is feeling like they have to unlock all 9 options. so if you pick the t2 choice to show you an item option, it locks the other 2 t2 choices. so the maximum you can get is a choice of 3, but easier to achive.

That would be a fix.

Would be better for the mythic raiders as well, like preach said he is worried about the 10 raidboss count, since in mythic raiding people try different strategies and swap in and out to be efficient, reaching 10 bosses is a bit much there. BUT if the choices would lock each other in each tier, if someone is unable to do the 10 mythic bosses, he could swap his choice to the 10 m+ dungeon category and technically is not missing out on choices.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lawrenz

[Bobbis 208]

I'm happier with the 1 4 10. People seem to be forgetting that each M+ will drop 1 item, 1. per 5 people. We'll be running more dungeons to get gear anyway so 4 is easy in a week. Early on whilst gearing a single toon or 1 alt, doing 4 or 10 will be what we're doing to get the gear anyway.

15 was too much, I'd take less than 10 simply because it's less work but 10 seems ok to me.

[calledyouout 16]

1 hour ago, Bobbis said:

I'm happier with the 1 4 10. People seem to be forgetting that each M+ will drop 1 item, 1. per 5 people. We'll be running more dungeons to get gear anyway so 4 is easy in a week. Early on whilst gearing a single toon or 1 alt, doing 4 or 10 will be what we're doing to get the gear anyway.

15 was too much, I'd take less than 10 simply because it's less work but 10 seems ok to me.

There is an over arching issue with M+. It is a substitute for alternative gearing.

Take raiding for e.g. In the past this has ben the soul source for getting alot of BiS Gear. Now all content besides Mythic are trivial because you can gear up entirely in M+ Changing the loot to 1 per run may mean increased runs, but is that a good thing?

To my point:  This feels like a forced way of trying to get people to play the game for longer. Because play time is now how blizzard measure the success of the game. Not through subs or how much engagement they get. "the longer people play the more they are enjoying the game"

TL:DR - We are doing alot more for alot less in comparison to previouse (very successful) Expansions.

Edited August 6, 2020 by calledyouout

[Ragingwolf 310]

If you want to do 1 very high key at the start of each reset and only 1 key then you can.  Don't like Raiding or keystones?  Then stick to the PvP objectives.  Think keystones are a waste of time but don't care for PvP then do the Raid only objectives.  However you can't complain if you stay in the rut of the given 1 item in your weekly cache if you only did 1 objective.  That is on the player alone not Blizzard.  This system offers the chance for increase choice with the exchange of increased work put through during the week to a cap of 6 possible items to choose 1 from if you decide to complete all objectives.  THERE IS NO ONE PRESSURING ANYONE INTO COMPLETING ALL OBJECTIVES EVERY WEEK.  That is on the player alone.

I rather go to this system and get a few objectives completed than getting 1 and repeating the same BFA cycle where I would get the same exact piece for 6 weeks straight not to mention the horrid rotten luck when I would use a bonus roll and receive only AP on select dungeons or raid bosses.  I'm not a hardcore Raider or a PvP'er who does Battlegrounds/Arenas religiously and I find more enjoyment in running keystones as Tank, DPS, or even Heals.  But people want to dog down players due to gear acquisition and wish to only limit the very best gear to only one form of farming?  That does not make any sense whatsoever to me in the slightest.  But then again I was never really 'lucky' to acquire what was considered as BiS from Raid gear from Helm to Trinket whenever I farmed Raid content with the Guild.

TL;DR Version People are overlooking, complaining, and getting ahead of themselves over something that should be viewed in a positive way.  I see this as a way to strengthen and gear my Main quicker and to help out with more content for my Guild.  If can get my Main geared quickly and see items from Dungeons or Raids that I don't need I can pass said items to them to help gear their main characters up as well.  

[siexl 0]

The raiding one is super ez since it's not difficulty specific

 

10 mythic dungeons a week is kind of a lot, but that's not gonna be hard since you can just run mythic 0's, and it will get a lot faster the better your gear is.

 

and the pvp one idc about since i don't really pvp

Edited August 6, 2020 by siexl

[calledyouout 16]

 

2 hours ago, Ragingwolf said:

If you want to do 1 very high key at the start of each reset and only 1 key then you can.  Don't like Raiding or keystones?  Then stick to the PvP objectives.  Think keystones are a waste of time but don't care for PvP then do the Raid only objectives.  However you can't complain if you stay in the rut of the given 1 item in your weekly cache if you only did 1 objective.  That is on the player alone not Blizzard.  This system offers the chance for increase choice with the exchange of increased work put through during the week to a cap of 6 possible items to choose 1 from if you decide to complete all objectives.  THERE IS NO ONE PRESSURING ANYONE INTO COMPLETING ALL OBJECTIVES EVERY WEEK.  That is on the player alone.

If I am not mistaken it is based on what type of key you do? I doubt rewards 1 2 and 3 will be a 15+ key Item wise if you do 1 15+ and the rest M0. Sure you arn't FORCED into it but even for someone like me who plays casually, this will be the main source of gear so I feel obligated into doing it.   I don't remember the last expansion that pressured you into playing so much (If you don't do your M+ you won't get your BiS ITEM or will have less chance!!!) it doesn't help that the loot pool is massive and alot of classes can get a stat that is so bad that you would rather wear a seperate armor type. DKs running around in cloth becase STR weighted so badly

 

 

2 hours ago, Ragingwolf said:

TL;DR Version People are overlooking, complaining, and getting ahead of themselves over something that should be viewed in a positive way.  I see this as a way to strengthen and gear my Main quicker and to help out with more content for my Guild.  If can get my Main geared quickly and see items from Dungeons or Raids that I don't need I can pass said items to them to help gear their main characters up as well.  

 

Here is an issue with how you see it. Your main gearing up quickly so you can give other gear? Well you won't be able to because of a few reasons The gear you are giving them is trash, if it is their main they are going into M+ like you. M+ gear is higher than raid gear. So unless they either don't need it or they are getting super carried you won't be trading anything.

 

[Ragingwolf 310]

29 minutes ago, calledyouout said:

 

If I am not mistaken it is based on what type of key you do? I doubt rewards 1 2 and 3 will be a 15+ key Item wise if you do 1 15+ and the rest M0. Sure you arn't FORCED into it but even for someone like me who plays casually, this will be the main source of gear so I feel obligated into doing it.   I don't remember the last expansion that pressured you into playing so much (If you don't do your M+ you won't get your BiS ITEM or will have less chance!!!) it doesn't help that the loot pool is massive and alot of classes can get a stat that is so bad that you would rather wear a seperate armor type. DKs running around in cloth becase STR weighted so badly

 

 

 

Here is an issue with how you see it. Your main gearing up quickly so you can give other gear? Well you won't be able to because of a few reasons The gear you are giving them is trash, if it is their main they are going into M+ like you. M+ gear is higher than raid gear. So unless they either don't need it or they are getting super carried you won't be trading anything.

 

If I already have a decent or better version  and they are still stuck on world emissary or world quest gear and haven't had much luck, replacing items to increase their item level, it's a big reprieve for them when we can funnel loot to people in Guild till something comes along in the cache that they can replace it with.  We, in my Guild, start off small and push up to where we can steadily farm 10's and push up to 12's, 13's, and eventually try for 14's and luckily 15's. Sometimes we time the key and other times we don't. We are not hardcore but made up of casual players with odd work and school schedules. And alot of people don't feel comfortable in farming past 10 keys and are content in doing 1 and being done with it.  We don't force them to join for Raid and we don't force players into participating in keys either.  Because it's an MMORPG we allow our members to play and gear their characters on how they see fit on the content they wish to persue. And they understand that they are responsible for their character alone and no one else. Some of the officers including me create alts to fill in as Heals or Tanks and would only use the funnel system as a last resort option and will optimize on our own( yes we pug alot on our own) to better understand the class, rotation, and overall feel to play it via dungeon/raid finder, random bg's, or open world content.  

Not everyone is trying to go for the God tier Gold standard of having the best and absolute best gear of what is considered BiS for that current patch. Either it be from keystones or raiding.  This is a better system than what GW2, SWOTR, and FFXIV has to offer.

[Whiterhino 31]

As someone who has gotten probably 60% bracers, and 30% belts and 10% other useless items in the chest I feel like I will have to do all the available great vault weeklys to get a decent item. So most of my playtime will be doing the same end game homogenized content. I want to experience more of the actual expansion and doing the new world events and torghast and the maw and professions etc then feel like I have to just instantly start grinding away on Tuesday. Sure I dont HAVE to, but tell that to the majority of the playerbase who tries to copy endgame metas and optimization techniques. Everyone will be grinding the great vault. If it comes down to gearing being easier, then just remove the entire last tier for all in general. Otherwise reduce the amount. Also horrible feeling if you want to keep alts somewhat competitive. 

[calledyouout 16]

13 hours ago, Ragingwolf said:

If I already have a decent or better version  and they are still stuck on world emissary or world quest gear and haven't had much luck, replacing items to increase their item level, it's a big reprieve for them when we can funnel loot to people in Guild till something comes along in the cache that they can replace it with.

This is you carrying someone and is not going to be affected by the chest, you still get one item but more choice, you are unlikely to gear up quicker as a result.

 

13 hours ago, Ragingwolf said:

Sometimes we time the key and other times we don't. We are not hardcore but made up of casual players with odd work and school schedules. And alot of people don't feel comfortable in farming past 10 keys and are content in doing 1 and being done with it.

It sounds like this will not affect you then because you won't be doing enough M+ anyway. I'm comming from a standpoint where it will affect me because less gear in M+ means I need to grind it more.

 

4 hours ago, Whiterhino said:

 most of my playtime will be doing the same end game homogenized content. I want to experience more of the actual expansion and doing the new world events and torghast and the maw and professions etc then feel like I have to just instantly start grinding away on Tuesday. Sure I dont HAVE to, but tell that to the majority of the playerbase who tries to copy endgame metas and optimization techniques.

You have 100% hit the nail on the head my friend.  I no longer do CE Mythic raiding, however me and almost everyone I have ever met want the best out of their character. That is the essence of an RPG right? Character pride and all that jazz.

 

TL:DR Blizzard still trying to "incentivise" players to play more. Time is money friend

[Lawrenz 105]

21 hours ago, Ragingwolf said:

If you want to do 1 very high key at the start of each reset and only 1 key then you can.  Don't like Raiding or keystones?  Then stick to the PvP objectives.  Think keystones are a waste of time but don't care for PvP then do the Raid only objectives.  However you can't complain if you stay in the rut of the given 1 item in your weekly cache if you only did 1 objective.  That is on the player alone not Blizzard.  This system offers the chance for increase choice with the exchange of increased work put through during the week to a cap of 6 possible items to choose 1 from if you decide to complete all objectives.  THERE IS NO ONE PRESSURING ANYONE INTO COMPLETING ALL OBJECTIVES EVERY WEEK.  That is on the player alone.

you are right, this gives us more choice, which hasn't been there before. But is it purely positive? I would say no. Because the vault was supposed to fix the frustration the weekly cache causes. It's the only source of your highest ilvl items, and randomly rolled from a pool of hundreds of items. Of course you never will get the item you want. And Blizzard promised to give us more choice. And here it is, blizzard telling us to put much more work into it, in order to get the fix. So if i want to do one high key and chill with lower keys the rest of the week, this "fix" doesnt fix anything.

As i said in my previous post, the amount should be even lower, the choices should be relatively easy to get, but limited to 3 choices in a week. Then you can choose how you would like to achive those choices. With your pvp, m+ or raiding. That would be a FIX. just make it 1/3/5, or even 1/2/4. Otherwise i will have no time to do lower key runs with friends, without loosing my choice. Since it's not giving you additional items, just choice, it should be easier.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Lawrenz

[Ragingwolf 310]

5 hours ago, calledyouout said:

This is you carrying someone and is not going to be affected by the chest, you still get one item but more choice, you are unlikely to gear up quicker as a result.

 

It sounds like this will not affect you then because you won't be doing enough M+ anyway. I'm comming from a standpoint where it will affect me because less gear in M+ means I need to grind it more.

 

You have 100% hit the nail on the head my friend.  I no longer do CE Mythic raiding, however me and almost everyone I have ever met want the best out of their character. That is the essence of an RPG right? Character pride and all that jazz.

 

TL:DR Blizzard still trying to "incentivise" players to play more. Time is money friend

I still disagree because you and I are still missing directly over the issue.  I'm more active in my Guild and formulate where I want to go and work for gear while my Guildmates not so much due to diverse scheduling.  I'm more inclined to farm 3-6 keystones (levels vary) a night and the rate of armor dropping at the end of the dungeon has little to no effect on me. I don't gun for BiS I go off and balance by desired stat and rotate gear accordingly and by the end of a patch I have a mixed assortment of gear I tend to play around with for given specialization (mostly obtained from the cache). I'll probably be one of the first ones to start pushing 10's and higher not to mention doing a world tour on Mythic 0's once that bit of content is released during the first week till cd.  I just keep going and keep trying while everyone else in the Guild enjoys at their own pace.  I know I'm not the best or pro player and I have no intention to compete with those that are on the gearing mind set of Mythic/Cutting Edge.  I make the best at what RNG has given me in the game and go about my way to enjoy the game.

If the system is flawed during it's current state in Beta how would  you propose a solution without bringing in a token based system or the return of tier sets?  Since both are off the table and have not eta of making a comeback per Blizzard.

 

[Bobbis 208]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:49 AM, calledyouout said:

There is an over arching issue with M+. It is a substitute for alternative gearing.

Take raiding for e.g. In the past this has ben the soul source for getting alot of BiS Gear. Now all content besides Mythic are trivial because you can gear up entirely in M+ Changing the loot to 1 per run may mean increased runs, but is that a good thing?

To my point:  This feels like a forced way of trying to get people to play the game for longer. Because play time is now how blizzard measure the success of the game. Not through subs or how much engagement they get. "the longer people play the more they are enjoying the game"

TL:DR - We are doing alot more for alot less in comparison to previouse (very successful) Expansions.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct...

[SidonisAntares 290]

The dependency on RaiderIO and how it will relate to the weekly chest is greatly exaggerated in this thread. You can complete this currently by doing 10 +2 runs, which no one gives a rat's *filtered* about RaiderIO at +2 because you have to have a composite score of 200 to even show up to others in Raider IO, which is an average of.....10 +2 in time. Also, the only thing RaiderIO does is take the work out of looking you up on the WoW website, it pulls your character data directly from Blizzard, and compiles it in a database.

The conquest points are also sounding pretty woe is me. You don't have to Arena to fill up your conquest bar, as someone who does not regularly arena, I had no problem getting C&S in BFA, it just took longer than someone who does play into higher MMRs. 

This solution offers more choice, that's it. Quality of reward is still set through difficulty of M+ completed or MMR, and with a combined chest it will probably be a "whichever one is higher" for determining value.

Edited August 10, 2020 by SidonisAntares

[Darkwidow 0]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:11 PM, Darkclaw said:

10 m+ still a lot?, man...

Yea, considering some of us prefer to PvP and like to run more than one toon. This means for me to have 3 toons get the most chance at gear for the week I would have to do 30 decent level keys. I enjoy some dragon slaying but 10 keys a week per toon sounds terrible considering I can barely get in my +15 for the week now on 3 toons along with everything else that is required for the week and squeezing in some time to actually PvP.