wow What Exactly Happened with Uther's Soul at His Death?

[Starym 3,800]

 

The new Bastion animated short has brought up many questions and theories on what exactly was going on (and, no, "is this the same Bastion from Overwatch" wasn't one of them), but it seems there's a pretty clear explanation if you really look closely. We won't be going into Shadowlands story spoilers here, just discussing the short itself.

As many reddit threads and theories arise, the main issues players are having are how Uther's soul could have been in the Shadowlands when we've interacted with it and him, several times since his death, and how he was able to even be in Bastion when he should have been trapped in Frostmourne. There's several major encounters with Uther after his death we need to look at:

• We have his appearance in the Halls of Reflection dungeon in Icecrown Citadel, where he warns players that there must always be a Lich King and aids in the Quel'Derrar quest chain. This one is the main problem-causer, as he should be in the Shadowlands at this point, but he's clearly speaking from inside Frostmourne.
• He then appears after Arthas' death when crafting Shadowmourne, which is after the events of the animated short, so no problems here.
• His third major appearance comes in Legion, where players contact Uther's soul to help with locating the Ashbringer, in the Paladin class hall artifact quest line, but that one also comes after the events of the Bastion short, so there's no problems there either.
   

The explanation to both issues is that when Arthas killed Uther with with Frostmourne, his soul was split or fragmented, with one part going into the sword, as is the standard for everyone else but, probably due to his final prayer to the light, as he literally says "Light, save my soul", another part is taken away to run its natural course in the Shadowlands. You can see as much in the video itself, as captured by redditor Tpaartos:

With this in mind, it's clear that there were basically 2 Uthers after this point, with one guiding players through Icecrown Citadel, coming from within Frostmourne, and the other being the Uther we see in the Afterlives short. The events after Arthas' death all happen after the cinematic short plays out, so they might have their own issues with the further events in the Shadowlands story, as all contacts after that could only be with the actual, reunited soul of Uther in Bastion, including when he is directly contacted by Maxwell Tyrosus in Legion via his tomb.

What exactly that "light soul" was and how the two Uthers work is still unclear, as it seems that the Shadowlands Uther is not aware of his other part being trapped within Frostmourne. He mentions he still feels his blade, but that would have been a great time to also mention he's still partially trapped inside it, so it seems pretty definitive that the two Uthers are not connected/communicating. What exactly happens after Arthas death and the reunification of Uther's souls is something we'll have to find out in the Shadowlands story, specifically Bastion itself.

[FourEyedFoxie 17]

What i want to know is, who exactly made Frostmourne, as we always were told is was the nathrezim, but now we are told it was made inside torghast. How did they get there? Feel free to check my blog for more of my wonderings ? 

 

Loved the cinematic though, Arthas is by far my favourite lore character. 

[Starym 3,800]

7 minutes ago, Foxie12 said:

What i want to know is, who exactly made Frostmourne, as we always were told is was the nathrezim, but now we are told it was made inside torghast. How did they get there? Feel free to check my blog for more of my wonderings ? 

 

Loved the cinematic though, Arthas is by far my favourite lore character. 

Spoiler:

Spoiler

It was the smith inside Torghast that we'll free and he'll make legendaries for us. He actually made both Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination.

[Arcling 898]

Uther's spirit also appeared at his tomb, when at that point he was supposedly in Frostmourne, unless that one doesn't count for some reason. That would make his appearance in Legion a second time, when he shows up at his tomb. Obviously, it likely wasn't planned that far ahead, as he should have his Bastion appearance. I think whole idea of him being split into two fragments of his soul is a bit of an unnecessary complication. Turns out we only saw half of his soul in Halls of Reflection...

Edited August 27, 2020 by Arcling

[Starym 3,800]

1 minute ago, Arcling said:

Uther's spirit also appeared at his tomb, when at that point he was supposedly in Frostmourne, unless that one doesn't count for some reason. That would make his appearance in Legion a second time, when he shows up at his tomb. Obviously, it likely wasn't planned that far ahead, as he should have his Bastion appearance. I think whole idea of him being split into two fragments of his souls is a bit of an unnecessary complication. Turns out we only saw half of his soul in Halls of Reflection...

Or they just contacted his Shadowlands soul.
As for the half thing, from out perspective it's irrelevant, because both parts have all of Uther's experiences, so basically the Frostmourne part is the exact same as it would have been if they weren't split and he was just stuck in the sword.

[Arcling 898]

22 minutes ago, Starym said:

Or they just contacted his Shadowlands soul.
As for the half thing, from out perspective it's irrelevant, because both parts have all of Uther's experiences, so basically the Frostmourne part is the exact same as it would have been if they weren't split and he was just stuck in the sword.

Yeah, but he looked different within Bastion, while in Halls he had his standard appearance. Still, I wonder if both parts, when combined, gain memories of both (everything what they have experienced since the split?). Another thing, Frostmourne simply claimed souls, but now it splits them into parts, unless Uther was special case for some reason.

[Starym 3,800]

Just now, Arcling said:

Yeah, but he looked different within Bastion, while in Halls he had his standard appearance. Still, I wonder if both parts, when combined, gain memories of both (everything what they have experienced since the split?). Another thing, Frostmourne simply claimed souls, but now it splits them into parts, unless Uther was special case for some reason.

Ye he was special, the light granted his prayer and tried to save his soul, but only managed to get a part of it on to the afterlife. And yea the shared memories thing is an interesting question.
On the appearance, I mean it makes sense that we see his spirit/he presents himself the way WE knew him, not the way he is now (like, if he was an amorphous blob in the afterlife, he'd still show himself as his old self to us in spirit form).

[Migol 433]

1) Why did the Angel and Uther bother catching Arthas?    He was undoubtably going to end up in the maw anyway?   

2) Archon is probably a raid boss, both from this video and the playthrough of Bastion where it seems obvious that "living a virtuous life gets you to Bastion, where all memories of your virtuous life are taken away as you "ascend".     The system is obviously subtly corrupt and many of the quests in Bastion show this with the painful memory wipes and ruminations of their past life and whatnot.

3) I really hope they don't just make Uther into a villain.    One of the OG true heroes in Warcraft who always was a force for redeeming others deserves to end his story redeemed himself.

[Marick 11]

30 minutes ago, Migol said:

1) Why did the Angel and Uther bother catching Arthas?    He was undoubtably going to end up in the maw anyway?   

2) Archon is probably a raid boss, both from this video and the playthrough of Bastion where it seems obvious that "living a virtuous life gets you to Bastion, where all memories of your virtuous life are taken away as you "ascend".     The system is obviously subtly corrupt and many of the quests in Bastion show this with the painful memory wipes and ruminations of their past life and whatnot.

3) I really hope they don't just make Uther into a villain.    One of the OG true heroes in Warcraft who always was a force for redeeming others deserves to end his story redeemed himself.

1-We cant really know where Arbiter would have put him tho(he could have ended in Revendreth and be forced to be repent for his sins or something).They wanted to make sure he ends up in the Maw withouth any chance of him getting any other afterlife.Devos is the one that was all for making certain that Arthas goes to the same place his power came from while Uther had doubts about just dropping Arthas into the Maw.

3-Doubt they will make Uther a villian.He is simply a man that was betrayed by his own student and somebody who he considered a friend which lead to him making a bad decision in pursuit of justice (Devos heavily influenced Uthers decision and even transformed him prematurley into an Ascended so he could help her).

[Migol 433]

5 hours ago, Marick said:

1-We cant really know where Arbiter would have put him tho(he could have ended in Revendreth and be forced to be repent for his sins or something).They wanted to make sure he ends up in the Maw withouth any chance of him getting any other afterlife.Devos is the one that was all for making certain that Arthas goes to the same place his power came from while Uther had doubts about just dropping Arthas into the Maw.

3-Doubt they will make Uther a villian.He is simply a man that was betrayed by his own student and somebody who he considered a friend which lead to him making a bad decision in pursuit of justice (Devos heavily influenced Uthers decision and even transformed him prematurley into an Ascended so he could help her).

I mean, if Arthas Menethil isn't destined for the Maw, who is?    Patricide, murder of many innocents, sacrilege against the dead, torment and fleshcrafting, etc etc.

[Badadada 184]

9 hours ago, Migol said:

3) I really hope they don't just make Uther into a villain.    One of the OG true heroes in Warcraft who always was a force for redeeming others deserves to end his story redeemed himself.

That's what the light wants us to see. But as we know from previous experience (such as Xe'ra, the naaru trying to kill Illidan) not everything associated with the light is sacred and holy. The light can be evil too and to me it seems like Uther's soul in Shadowlands is acting a bit nefarious and out of his character, while his part trapped in the Frostmourne may have been the "good" Uther.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Badadada

[SidonisAntares 290]

7 hours ago, Migol said:

I mean, if Arthas Menethil isn't destined for the Maw, who is?    Patricide, murder of many innocents, sacrilege against the dead, torment and fleshcrafting, etc etc.

Everyone gets a chance to repent in Revendreth from what we've seen so far, and failure to repent is banishment to the Maw. Additionally, since we don't know how long there has been an issue with the Arbiter (recently is vague, time may not have the same flow/meaning in an immortal afterlife), we can't really say whether he would have ended up directly in the Maw. Either way, Uther and the Paragon helping him wanted to make sure he never got the chance for redemption, by intercepting him before getting to the Arbiter.

[Migol 433]

Hmm, my understanding was that souls could be "so bad" that they were sent to the maw directly?    

[Starym 3,800]

8 hours ago, Badadada said:

That's what the light wants us to see. But as we know from previous experience (such as Xe'ra, the naaru trying to kill Illidan) not everything associated with the light is sacred and holy. The light can be evil too and to me it seems like Uther's soul in Shadowlands is acting a bit nefarious and out of his character, while his part trapped in the Frostmourne may have been the "good" Uther.

That's a really cool way to look at it, actually didn't even consider that this part of his souls was "light corrupted". Although from what I read into it, I think the light just pulled him out out before Frostmourne took him (or most of him), like the effect was juat a spell/power to get him out.