Dragonflight DPS Rankings

[Impakt 25]

7 hours ago, Kartamus said:

Sorry, but I couldn't see exactly whether these are final values. The red warning wasn't noticeable enough.

Haha, yeah we wanted to make it clear that this was predictive and essentially our best guess on what the meta will look like. You'd be surprised how many people will skip over reading warnings if they are not big and obvious.

[Guest ASensibleMan]

Honestly I see most top end guild vastly misunderstanding their classes as a whole. Just because you're in a "top" guild people automatically assume you're a subject matter expert on your class. You were successful in BFA, and I tip my hat off to you for that. But that was BFA, this is a different level, stat priority for most classes and understandings as well.
This "List" has caused quite the controversy as "Oh, World 14 guild says its bad. Sorry someone on the internet who has no understanding of your class said your spec is bad so we aren't taking you." Meanwhile that same person is putting down some numbers in instances where they should be "Bottom Tier" and instead pumping 5k dps single target at 170.
Talked to some officers in the guild about it, and it appears this is the "list" everyone is going off of.
Cudos to you guys for alienating 50% of wows player base in 1 fell swoop.

[Impakt 25]

2 hours ago, Guest ASensibleMan said:

Honestly I see most top end guild vastly misunderstanding their classes as a whole. Just because you're in a "top" guild people automatically assume you're a subject matter expert on your class. You were successful in BFA, and I tip my hat off to you for that. But that was BFA, this is a different level, stat priority for most classes and understandings as well.
This "List" has caused quite the controversy as "Oh, World 14 guild says its bad. Sorry someone on the internet who has no understanding of your class said your spec is bad so we aren't taking you." Meanwhile that same person is putting down some numbers in instances where they should be "Bottom Tier" and instead pumping 5k dps single target at 170.
Talked to some officers in the guild about it, and it appears this is the "list" everyone is going off of.
Cudos to you guys for alienating 50% of wows player base in 1 fell swoop.

My intention is not to alienate anyone. I pretty clearly state multiple times that 1. This is all educated guessing based on beta performance in raid testing, and 2. Player skill will matter more in 99% of cases. There is always going to be a "meta" but that does not at all mean everyone needs to follow it, nor does it mean people who don't follow it are inherently worse than those who do. Some of the best players that I've ever played with have been players who played less popular specs but took them to extremes that no one had ever seen before. Fragnance is one of the best DPS players in the world, and he used to be a Feral Druid main in MoP who would absolutely annihilate everyone else in damage when Feral was still seen as a worse spec. 

I'll say it again - player skill matters more than differences in class/spec performance. A very good Warrior is going to be more valuable and can easily do more damage than a mediocre Hunter. Feel free to screenshot this comment and send it to your raid leader.

[Guest WutFace]

20 hours ago, Guest ASensibleMan said:

Honestly I see most top end guild vastly misunderstanding their classes as a whole. Just because you're in a "top" guild people automatically assume you're a subject matter expert on your class. You were successful in BFA, and I tip my hat off to you for that. But that was BFA, this is a different level, stat priority for most classes and understandings as well.
This "List" has caused quite the controversy as "Oh, World 14 guild says its bad. Sorry someone on the internet who has no understanding of your class said your spec is bad so we aren't taking you." Meanwhile that same person is putting down some numbers in instances where they should be "Bottom Tier" and instead pumping 5k dps single target at 170.
Talked to some officers in the guild about it, and it appears this is the "list" everyone is going off of.
Cudos to you guys for alienating 50% of wows player base in 1 fell swoop.

This comment is F tier.

 

Did you read the text aspect of the list or just look at the list? It is clearly stated that it will change and is to be a general guideline of classes in a raid. 
 

Also do you think this author really prepared a list with out speaking to experts on the class prior? Or are you under the assumption that there are no experts on any class yet because it’s a brand new expansion?

 

Sounds to me like you applied to a guild that declined you due to this list.

 

Got some news for you, it’s not the list fault. It’s your fault for applying to a guild that recruits their raiders because of the class they play and not the skill they have as a player. 
 

Maybe try applying to some “top” ranked guilds and if your skill is evident in the logs I am sure they will accept you. If you are declined after that, then you need to take a look in the mirror. 
 

Hope you are enjoying Shadow lands! Best of luck :) 

[Guest Ocho]

On 11/20/2020 at 5:35 AM, Impakt said:

Fire Mage has a very specific, niche broken build that was allowing it to do insane uncapped AoE damage in M+ dungeons. That type of damage profile is just not at all necessary inside the raid. Difference between needing to hit 1-5 targets versus pulling 30 at once.

What changed since November 20th to bring fire mage from bottom of the list to near the top? 

[Guest Tronkulus]

So surv hunter c tier garbage dps? and i'm outperforming a lot of mm and locks sure dude the problem is who u need hands and some IQ to maintain dots and do the correct rotation for the energy regen nothing more.

[Guest WoWDaD]

I'm curious about your frost mage write-up regarding the legendary.  I've read a lot of feedback about Cold Front needing too many casts for proc to be worthwhile, but then you state it is a huge boost and maybe the best legendary now that it isn't bugged.  Thoughts or feedback appreciated!

[Guest Fox]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/dps-rankings-tier-list

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/

frost mage is trash tier why do you still have the weakest spec listed as A?

[Guest Grootloops33]

I've actually had amazing dps using Demonology, and it's marked as C-tier
Frankly, with the exact same gear:

Destruction: 2.7k

Affliction: 2.8k

Demonology: 3.1k

What is the low Demonology tier based off?

[Guest Morween]

On 12/22/2020 at 4:25 AM, Guest Grootloops33 said:

I've actually had amazing dps using Demonology, and it's marked as C-tier
Frankly, with the exact same gear:

Destruction: 2.7k

Affliction: 2.8k

Demonology: 3.1k

What is the low Demonology tier based off?

Absolute Lol

[Guest Xank The Tank]

Great lists, I enjoy your guys research and it saves a casual player so much time to run calculations on my own and testing of all different scenarios just to figure out the best options. Keep it up!

[Guest bret]

is monk dps a-tier or b-tier theres conflicting information

[Impakt 25]

1 hour ago, Guest bret said:

is monk dps a-tier or b-tier theres conflicting information

A-tier. I accidently slotted it in B-tier below, I'll fix that right now. Thanks!

[Guest janasty]

is this list still the same.

[Guest x509]

Arcane B tier, rly? Better then fire.

[Impakt 25]

2 hours ago, Guest x509 said:

Arcane B tier, rly? Better then fire.

There are definitely specific things that Arcane is incredible at, but Fire is by far better overall for the instance. Arcane is a great farm spec - it does well on fights like sludgefist and pulls out some big numbers, but for progression style encounters or specifically on fights such as SLG and Denathrius with heavy movement, it suffers. Fire has no weak spots.

[Guest Rogue]

I was wondering if you could update the description for Outlaw rogue. It was last updated Nov 20 and the text below says it won’t be played much in raids. Although it is the highest ranked rogue spec on this list. 

[Impakt 25]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:38 PM, Guest Rogue said:

I was wondering if you could update the description for Outlaw rogue. It was last updated Nov 20 and the text below says it won’t be played much in raids. Although it is the highest ranked rogue spec on this list. 

You're right, I forgot to update the bottom part of the text when I increased its ranking. I'll update it, thanks!

[Guest Chance]

Are you guys going to have a similar page to this for 9.1? I find it super helpful 🙂

[Impakt 25]

1 hour ago, Guest Chance said:

Are you guys going to have a similar page to this for 9.1? I find it super helpful 🙂

Absolutely! I should have it up within the next couple of weeks actually, I've just been waiting for raid testing to finish. It's hard to talk about the "raid meta" without seeing the raid first.

[Guest Zappyboi]

Does this ranking take into account the recent buffs to Survival?
Why does every man and his dog hold Elemental in high regard (frequently referred to as the next Boomie") but this guide doesnt reflect that?
You say Havocs 4min CD works with the raid. Care to explain? Are the fights no longer than 4min 30sec?

[Guest Georgina]

Frost mages cleaves & funnels with Freezing Winds, not Glacial Fragments. Not sure if that's an error or just a lack of spec knowledge

[Impakt 25]

18 minutes ago, Guest Georgina said:

Frost mages cleaves & funnels with Freezing Winds, not Glacial Fragments. Not sure if that's an error or just a lack of spec knowledge

Just an error, I already submitted a fix it's just not live yet. Named the wrong legendary.

[Impakt 25]

17 hours ago, Guest Zappyboi said:

Does this ranking take into account the recent buffs to Survival?
Why does every man and his dog hold Elemental in high regard (frequently referred to as the next Boomie") but this guide doesnt reflect that?
You say Havocs 4min CD works with the raid. Care to explain? Are the fights no longer than 4min 30sec?

It's certainly possible that Survival will perform better than I'm expecting, and I'll adjust once I see it. 

Elemental is quite good, but it's not S-tier. You won't stack shamans the same way you could stack boomkin and spriest on some fights. I've never heard it referred to as the next Boomkin, I'm not particularly sure what that means, but this guide reflects what myself and others have seen on the PTR, theorycrafted, and basically what we predict everything will be at in 9.1. 

There is a reason all of the warnings are all over the tier list - it's fun content and I enjoy making the predictions, but I will inevitably get a few specs wrong. It's impossible to predict exactly what will happen in the raid for balance, but this is an educated guess.

The projected fight timings line up much better than in Castle. Sludge, SLG, and Sire all were just terrible for havoc's CD timings, which was quite awkward. Sire actually wasn't the worse, but the others weren't great. The fights this tier work more in Havoc's favor - hard to really explain without the fights live yet.

[Guest Testy]

Where’s the DPS rankings graph? Disclaimers and word salads are useless