Optimal Affliction Openers - Protectors & Shamans

[Nikalia 1]

Affliction openers are essential. I just went through 10+ pages of the Affliction Tips & Quirks thread, but can't find this specific question answered. (I recall seeing something somewhere on this, about when to haunt and sb:ss combo etc but cannot re-locate it). 

 

My lock friends and I are debating council fight openers, think the Fallen Protectors and Dark Shamans.

 

Lock #1 says that he hits one boss first w/ the usual single target opener, and only soul swaps onto the other bosses when Agony reaches its max stacks. He stated that a fresh Agony soul swap is too weak and he apparently does astronomical openers on protectors. This lock does not haunt first, but immediately applies dots then haunts, with a DS before either of those. 

 

Lock #2 pops DS, haunts, sb:ss dots (standard opener) then immediately sb:ss and uses his shards onto the other 3 bosses, going back through and haunting with nightfall procs (rng reliant). 

 

I personally (Lock #3) have started on one boss, JUST soul swapped (not sb) those dots (Agony NOT fully stacked) onto the other bosses, haunt cycle through them all, then go back to mg'ing the first boss. 

------

Some factors to incorporate:

-I do not have PBI, they both do. We all have the 10,124 personal haste threshhold, then mastery. 

-We are all using the glyph of CoElements, and yet I'm not so certain when to apply it! (A quote from Zagam states: 

"You wouldn't want to waste a global applying Curse of Elements with Dark Soul active.")

 

So I come here and beg you all to riddle me this: w/o PBI - and with PBI - how should we be spreading dots on a council-style affliction opener? Once and for all!

 

 

Bonus Q: Why does Lock #1 not begin with haunt pre-initial sb: ss? (He claims to stack agony faster) is it a substantial difference either way? 

Edited March 19, 2014 by Nikalia

[Lockybalboa 618]

I do what lock 1 does and I only apply haunt to my main target. 

 

With or without a PBI doesn't matter, it just means you'll do less DPS.

 

Pre casting haunt vs. not pre casting it is a very minor DPS difference, comes down to play style. Not right or wrong.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Malefic Grasp stacks Agony faster right?

 

Wouldn't lock 1 be better to haunt, apply dots, then malefic grasp?

[Lockybalboa 618]

 

If you're trying for the mega numbers game then his method is likely the best.

[Nikalia 1]

Ohhhkay I think I'm seeing ss:inhale -> haunt -> target swap - ss:exhale-> ss:inhale -> haunt -> target swap -ss:exhale

when they start falling off after a long opening, you are hoping something else procs so you can refresh w/ sb:ss, rinse repeat?

 

He basically strives to always get 1 tick of MG or 1x haunt in between an inhale and exhale each time? Except when new adds come out that have nothing he strives to just immediately dot that.

 

I think that's what I got out of that. Along with not starting with dark soul lest the trinket doesn't proc right away. Place non buffed ones then 1 tick of mg then DS into sb:ss and go into the inhale exhale trick. 

 

I really want to know how he gets all of the boss frames to show on the right, even for the important adds that come out!!!! 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Nikalia

[Liquidsteel 279]

Its shadowed unit frames.

I use elvui which does it for me.

Theyre just boss frames.

[Zagam 1,982]

Using Soulburn:Soul Swap at the beginning of a fight to apply DoTs to more things is a brutal gameplay mistake - those Soul Shards are valuable commodities and blowing them to get DoTs up is silly.  Get mega DoTs up on one target, snapshot them again before trinkets end, then spread your DoTs like they're going out of style.  Soulburn:Soul Swap should only be used on relatively short-lived mobs who you know you will Soul Drain to replenish your shards.

[Zagam 1,982]

Also, why in the world would all 3 of you Warlocks waste a glyph slot for Curse of the Elements?  Make one person be CoE bitch and let the other two take something useful/beneficial.

[chrisdux 0]

I would trust Sparkuggz to know how to do the opener properly. But the thing he does not say explicitly in the video is how to execute when bosses reach <20% health. Are you supposed to roll with the soulswap inhale/exhale as before and just drain soul instead of MG in between, or does it make sense to drain soul all the time and use shards to sb+ss and haunt all the targets from this point on? Could anyone please advise?

[JvChequer 43]

I would trust Sparkuggz to know how to do the opener properly. But the thing he does not say explicitly in the video is how to execute when bosses reach <20% health. Are you supposed to roll with the soulswap inhale/exhale as before and just drain soul instead of MG in between, or does it make sense to drain soul all the time and use shards to sb+ss and haunt all the targets from this point on? Could anyone please advise?

 

Probably same thing but:

 

inhale -> 2 ticks drain soul : exhale and keeping haunt in main target.

[Zagam 1,982]

Not possible.  You only have 3 seconds to exhale after inhaling and you couldn't get 2 ticks of Drain Soul in between that.  Your best bet would be to Soulburn:Soul Swap onto 3 adds, use Haunt, and use Drain Soul until your shards replenished.  Rinse and repeat.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Drain Soul is kinda pathetic damage nowadays anyway. If you got full buffed dots I'd assume you'd just continue to Inhale - MG/Haunt - Exhale like normal.

[chrisdux 0]

Well, DS damage itself is not much, but it makes your dots tick for 60% extra in execute. That is something for sure...

[Zagam 1,982]

I still think it'd be better to get DoTs rolling on everything with Soul Shards ASAP so you can keep Haunt up 100% of the time via Drain Soul draining.  Not looking at the damage pull - I'm looking at the infinite flow of Shards to keep Haunts flying.

[Rrasis 13]

If I have low powered dots on I'll try to concentrate on keeping my haunt up time high, but if I have some powerful dots rolling i'll keep swapping to try and make those last as long as possible, throwing in haunts when I'm able. I normally am around 700-800k at the end of protectors.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/B1RHLZvxTnWP9QVM#fight=2

 

784k that fight and I'm still only 224 in rankings so I have lots of room for improvement.

[Guest garmeth06]

Im switching to aff soon on this fight, I thought drain soul didn't give you extra shards on protectors, just like shadowburn doesn't give you embers on the adds.

 

Top affliction parse, 1.5 mil dps only has 3 ticks of drain soul cast the entire fight. The top parses all have MG used in exectute phase, I think the rationale is that drain soul's tick speed makes it nearly impossible to not waste an inhale/exhale , with MG being much easier to fit in between the two.

Edited March 20, 2014 by garmeth06

[Nikalia 1]

 

this quote thing keeps effing up on me haha

 

But you are correct - protectors adds do not replenish you to full shards, however the act of draining does so over time still ofc.

 

edit: the quote from the guy above me did not go.... talkin to you, garmeth!!

 

and @ zagam - i AM the curse of ele bitch.... i'm the only lock in our 10m. 

Edited March 21, 2014 by Nikalia

[Zagam 1,982]

Im switching to aff soon on this fight, I thought drain soul didn't give you extra shards on protectors, just like shadowburn doesn't give you embers on the adds.

 

Top affliction parse, 1.5 mil dps only has 3 ticks of drain soul cast the entire fight. The top parses all have MG used in exectute phase, I think the rationale is that drain soul's tick speed makes it nearly impossible to not waste an inhale/exhale , with MG being much easier to fit in between the two.

The top parse has no Drain Soul because he's using the Soul Swap trick where you extend your DoTs by using Exhale, Haunt/1 tick of MG, Inhale, repeat.  It doesn't put any emphasis on MG or DS - only on extending the procs of your DoTs as long as possible.  For an isolated event like Protectors, you do NOT receive Soul Shards upon something's death, but you DO gain 1 Soul Shard per two Drain Soul ticks.

 

I miss when Drain Soul was an actual execute.  Nothing felt better than seeing monstrous Drain Soul ticks on Elegon :( 

[Guest garmeth06]

The top parse has no Drain Soul because he's using the Soul Swap trick where you extend your DoTs by using Exhale, Haunt/1 tick of MG, Inhale, repeat.  It doesn't put any emphasis on MG or DS - only on extending the procs of your DoTs as long as possible.  For an isolated event like Protectors, you do NOT receive Soul Shards upon something's death, but you DO gain 1 Soul Shard per two Drain Soul ticks.

 

I miss when Drain Soul was an actual execute.  Nothing felt better than seeing monstrous Drain Soul ticks on Elegon

Well yes I realize that, but isn't that what we were talking about and not just a general situation. 

 

Yes and it makes me super sad for pvp too, it used to mean instant death if u got someone down to execute range in arena, now its so easy to run out of steam to warriors with second wind its maddening. I liked that huge tick rather than a slightly buffed malefic grasp.

Edited March 21, 2014 by garmeth06

[Zagam 1,982]

Nothing is more enraging (pun intended) than having to use Dark Soul DoTs on a Warrior to see their HP go down at all.  Affliction PvP makes me rage sometimes...

[Cardio33 3]

The top parse has no Drain Soul because he's using the Soul Swap trick where you extend your DoTs by using Exhale, Haunt/1 tick of MG, Inhale, repeat.  It doesn't put any emphasis on MG or DS - only on extending the procs of your DoTs as long as possible.  For an isolated event like Protectors, you do NOT receive Soul Shards upon something's death, but you DO gain 1 Soul Shard per two Drain Soul ticks.

 

I miss when Drain Soul was an actual execute.  Nothing felt better than seeing monstrous Drain Soul ticks on Elegon

I've seen this mentioned several times now, is this a bug?

 

I don't understand how it extends DoT duration.  I would think that if you exhale then haunt + MG (1 tick) you are losing 3-4 seconds on your dots before you inhale again.  Is there a video or detailed explanation how this works?

[Cardio33 3]

Nothing is more enraging (pun intended) than having to use Dark Soul DoTs on a Warrior to see their HP go down at all.  Affliction PvP makes me rage sometimes...

Agreed,

 

2s are borderline unplayable for a warlock at the moment.  IF you group with a teammate that has MS debuff and/or an execute then afflic is a lot of fun in 3s.

 

Rbgs are ruled by afflic at the moment b/c snap shotting 5 dots and massive aoe.

[Guest garmeth06]

I've seen this mentioned several times now, is this a bug?

 

I don't understand how it extends DoT duration.  I would think that if you exhale then haunt + MG (1 tick) you are losing 3-4 seconds on your dots before you inhale again.  Is there a video or detailed explanation how this works?

 

Na its not a glitch, when you inhale, your exhale retains the dot value from the SECOND you inhale, however, you have three seconds to exhale. What this means is that if you have 30 seconds left on your dots, you inhale, WAIT three seconds and then exhale, your new target will also have dots that last 30 seconds. This trick doesn't literally "extend" dots, it just essentially stops time from passing so your initial dots last a very long time. The only reason you haunt +mg inbetween is because you need something to pass the time.

Edited March 26, 2014 by garmeth06

[Cardio33 3]

I am a bit confused b/c I thought you can't exhale on the same target that you inhaled.  So let's look at protectors:

 

 

My opener would be:  DS -> haunt -> SB:SS to get dots up -> channel MG till everything procs -> SB:SS to get mega dots up -> inhale and exhale on all targets.

 

 

So you are suggesting I inhale from target A, then haunt + 1 tick of MG and exhale on target 2?

 

I just don't see how this makes any difference, it looks like you are losing a few ticks of dots on a target by waiting to exhale.

[Lockybalboa 618]

So you are suggesting I inhale from target A, then haunt + 1 tick of MG and exhale on target 2?

 

 

Haunt or one tick of MG. Not both.

 

It's simple, lets say that all three dots on target [A] have 10 seconds left on their duration.

You inhale the dots, time pauses for those dots that you're holding. They don't tick down when you are holding them.

You turn to target and cast haunt with a 1.3 second cast. Then exhale the dots you were holding.

Right now, target [A]'s dots have ticked down from 10 seconds to 7.2 seconds,  you exhaled on to target dots that have 10 seconds left.

Inhale the dots on target that now have 9.5 seconds left on them and turn to target [A]

Cast haunt.

Right now, target [A] has dots with a 6 second duration on them. Target has 9 seconds left.

Exhale on to target [A]. Target [A] has now gone from 6 seconds, to 9.5 seconds that you were holding.

Rinse and repeat.

 

 

The DoTs that you hold with SS do NOT count down when you are holding them. So you pause their time, do something, release their time. Thus with a little planing using at least two targets you can extend the over all time of these empowered dots by a very long time.