wow TechRadar: "Shadowlands Will Begin a More LGBTQ+-inclusive Future for the Game"

[Starym 3,800]

 

In a recent overview of certain Shadowlands quests, narratives, as well as the Shadows Rising book, TechRadar talked to Lead Narrative Designer Steve Danuser and Johnny Cash, Senior Game Designer and LGBTQ+ Advisory Council member. The focus of the overview and developer comments was the LGBTQ+ themes being added in and around Shadowlands, with subjects we've already covered coming up, from the Flynn and Shaw relationship, to Pelagos, as well as many other examples.

Here are some of the comments from the two developers, but be sure to check out the full TechRadar article here as well.

Steve Danuser on Flynn and Shaw:

Quote

We just really liked the chemistry of these characters. It kind of spoke to us. We could have had them just be friends if we wanted, but we felt like man, they have a much deeper connection, and it’s something that could feel like a really genuine relationship. It just felt really right for these characters.

World of Warcraft is not known for its romances. A lot of the weddings we’ve seen have had tragic ending. It’s not like we’re changing the game to be about romance. But there’s a place for it, where it feels like it enhances the story or the characters.

I think that Flynn and Shaw just made this really natural combination that was fun to see through questing in game, in Shadows Rising and in some other written material that we’ve got coming. I think you’ll just see that chemistry blossom even more. They’re fun characters to write for.

Johnny Cash on the Pelagos pronoun change and the community reaction:

Quote

We got similar feedback across the board, that no, it feels like the way you’ve written this character that he would prefer he/him pronouns instead of they/them. And hey, is this something we can change? And of course we can. And so we made the change.

Danuser on the motivation for the stories and the future:

Quote

We have a team that has a lot of different people with different viewpoints and backgrounds, so it’s important to us to tell stories that we care about, that reflect our concerns, and also make Azeroth a place that is representative of lots of different points of view, and very welcoming. Whatever your background is, there’s a place for you in this world. This is a beginning for us. It’s not well, we did that, and now we’re all done. We always think of more quests, more stories, more art to make and more systems to build. We’ll absolutely be thinking and looking for more ways to allow further representation in the future.

The article also talks about the barbershop now allowing gender change, the added player expression capabilities with the new customization options, smaller samesex relationships presented in the game and a lot more, so definitely check it out.

[Vaereye 10]

Why pander to this. That is so far from anything the game is about. Blizzard needs to keep political things outta WoW

[Fredfuchs 5]

I'll take virtue signaling for 500 Alex.

[Senou 40]

Is it really important to implement a topic so delicate into a video game which is created to bring joy? While some people may be all up for that, others might be critically against this while some don't give a flying fudge about it.

[leapingshadow 50]

17 minutes ago, Senou said:

Is it really important to implement a topic so delicate into a video game which is created to bring joy? While some people may be all up for that, others might be critically against this while some don't give a flying fudge about it.

You talk about people being critically against it. What exactly are they against? The idea of LGBT people? If so, then I think they should realize there's a far more serious problem.

[Halock 156]

11 minutes ago, leapingshadow said:

You talk about people being critically against it. What exactly are they against? The idea of LGBT people? If so, then I think they should realize there's a far more serious problem.

We had an excellent topic on this site recently about all this stuff. Forgotten what it was called. People had some excellent viewpoints though.

I think what they're complaining about is it feels preachy. People don't like being preached at. We can probably agree that Blizzard generally does small characters and settings really well. They'll probably do these characters at least decently. It can still feel preachy.

I mean I'll go out on a limb -- I somewhat resemble your question. I have doubts 'LGBT people' are taking the right path. I'd be eviscerated for writing that on Reddit, say. But I do not think most people ranting about this stuff online agree with my vague doubts. I think most people just get really really sick of A) bad writing in the service of representation instead of entertainment and B) being told they're bad people for wrongthink.

That's not to say that's what Blizzard is doing. But it's what some people have done.

I've been pondering it in this way: Warcraft's presumably got a mostly-young audience, right? That audience is, probably, made up of people who would most like representation, inclusion, and affirmation. It's, probably, also the people who would shout most loudly about matters they think unjust.

It's, probably, also the crowd who will most resent being told what to think. Or even what resembles it. 

It seems to me like Blizzard is stuck in a nasty spot. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. I doubt they're pandering, they've 'got away' with it this far, I think they're just trying to be honestly nice and please some people who would very much like a bone thrown their way (and I'd be glad to see some good examples of these characters myself). 

But it's really hard to just do that decent thing without dredging up the feelings provoked by people mishandling (at best) the matter.

[Senou 40]

1 hour ago, leapingshadow said:

You talk about people being critically against it. What exactly are they against? The idea of LGBT people? If so, then I think they should realize there's a far more serious problem.

I for my part am against this, since I dislike the idea of such themes being shoved down my throat all the time. It is so static and made up, just for the story purpose. I generally let people have their own ideas, thoughs, opinions and whatever there is but I also want a part of this freedom for myself. That said if you really want to make this topic matter, make it more important. A lot of peopel won't know about this and a lot of people will forget about it once Shadowlands is over.
I wouldn't dislike the idea if blizzard created a character who's important to the entire warcraft universe. Maybe some gay lead character, or something similar and make it more important to a part of the characters story rather than just creating it for the sake of saying "Oh, yeah there's a LGBTQ- whatever character in the game."

Edit: Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more. Maybe create a hybrid offspring which becomes more important later in the story, like some sort of heir to a leader. I don't know.
 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Senou

[Lavelm 4]

21 minutes ago, Senou said:

Edit: Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more. Maybe create a hybrid offspring which becomes more important later in the story, like some sort of heir to a leader. I don't know.
 

meanhile Rexxar reading this like ?️??️

[Lavelm 4]

2 hours ago, Vaereye said:

Why pander to this. That is so far from anything the game is about. Blizzard needs to keep political things outta WoW

sexuality is not political lol. Gay people exist in real life Kyle, what makes it so ? to believe that it can exist in a game? That's like people complaining that there were straight couples when we are trying to play a game about fantasy? It really doesn't matter what so ever if its in there or if its not, its just lore. A gay character (or couple) in the game does not affect ur skills, gameplay, or even character what so ever. Like in real life, u don't like it? Look away ^^  

[dproject83 0]

This is getting too much for a game.. seems like radical left has been infiltrating Blizzard and forcing them to do these kind of things. Very disgusting IMO

[Ravenclaw89 27]

This is a step, is nice ?

Maybe someday a gay lead character would come soon.  Meanwhile, we need these steps.

You don't care about this characters o details, if this bothers you it's only beacuse it's a LGBT+ thing. Otherwhise this wouldn't be a note at all. If you are straight don't come here to complain about representation or "dislike the idea of such themes being shoved down my throat all the time".

[Ragingwolf 310]

Has very little to no sway on how I level, progress, and view my characters story through their progression.  Doesn't bother me one bit.  And quite honest I am surprised it took WoW this long with EA and GW2 have had more story/characters in their games for LGBTQ community to enjoy.

[Brutalis 165]

World of Wokecraft is here.

[Halock 156]

1 hour ago, Ravenclaw89 said:

You don't care about this characters o details, if this bothers you it's only beacuse it's a LGBT+ thing. 

I actually do feel Mathias and Shaw are a bad pairing, and it adds to my larger trouble that I'm struggling to find what is interesting about gay characters. What it adds.

[KDF 26]

3 hours ago, Senou said:

Edit: Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more.

Saffy and Grizzek were two of my favorite characters in "Before the Storm." And they had a whole questline in BFA.  

[Valhalen 1,484]

4 hours ago, Halock said:

I think most people just get really really sick of A) bad writing in the service of representation instead of entertainment and B) being told they're bad people for wrongthink.

This quote here nails the whole discussion. Having LGBTQ representation for the sake of it, just so Blizzard's writters can pat themselves in the back for being "inclusive" and "progressive" feels forced and out of place. It shouldn't be taken as a big deal, but something natural; no need to give it a spotlight.

On that note, I think they handled the Flynn and Shaw thing relatively well, because it is not shown as something distracting shoved down our throats, with them pointing fingers at our faces saying "LOOK, WE'RE ARE A COUPLE." Blizzard took their relationship in a very subtlety manner to please the shippers, which is ok. It is not harming anyone.

3 hours ago, Senou said:

Edit: Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more. Maybe create a hybrid offspring which becomes more important later in the story, like some sort of heir to a leader. I don't know.

Well, we have Turalyon and Alleria. They're a couple, a human and a blood elf, that even have a half-elf kid. I think cross-race relationship could be potentially interesting, specially if it were to reflect on possible customization for characters in-game.

[KDF 26]

4 hours ago, Senou said:

Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more. Maybe create a hybrid offspring which becomes more important later in the story, like some sort of heir to a leader. I don't know.

Let's not forget Garona Halforcen. Hard to find a more important, hybrid-raced lore character than her. 

Point is, yes, they've been doing this forever. Relationships that cross expected boundaries have been a thing in Warcraft since the beginning.  

Edited October 6, 2020 by KDF

[Halock 156]

15 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

On that note, I think they handled the Flynn and Shaw thing relatively well, because it is not shown as something distracting shoved down our throats, with them pointing fingers at our faces saying "LOOK, WE'RE ARE A COUPLE." Blizzard took their relationship in a very subtlety manner to please the shippers, which is ok. It is not harming anyone.

I kind of feel it harms them as characters -- detracts from both without substantially adding. But I think this is a good point. I'd actually extend it to Pelagos or whatever his name is more than Flynn and Shaw. He's had loads of spotlights thrown on him but none of them have been from Blizzard, as far as I recall. I get the impression he's pretty subtle ingame too. That's the cool way to do it. 

[Starseed 113]

5 hours ago, dproject83 said:

This is getting too much for a game.. seems like radical left has been infiltrating Blizzard and forcing them to do these kind of things. Very disgusting IMO

how can portraying LGBTQ+ people be to much for a game where we have hetero relationships.

either you are against every form of relationships or not but saying LGBTQ+ people and relationships is to much but hetero is ok is just wrong

[Resnar 37]

2 minutes ago, N3ilo said:

how can portraying LGBTQ+ people be to much for a game where we have hetero relationships.

either you are against every form of relationships or not but saying LGBTQ+ people and relationships is to much but hetero is ok is just wrong

So much *filtered* this

[Starseed 113]

8 minutes ago, Resnar said:

So much *filtered* this

then tell me why no one bets an eye if we have hetero relationships in any game but they go crazy when there are homosexuals you cant tell me thats not because of homophopia

[Gortan 38]

I agree with @Valhalen. Blizz handled this well. Subtle.

What I have a beef with are news articles like this. The main argument of the LGBTQ+ community is that it's all completely normal, natural and common. And I agree. But having news articles like this jumping out of every cereal box isn't being common. That's being glorified.

[Koki 0]

Everything is political now, even wow needs to be. I do not think the devs at wow want to be political but I think they have to, and it makes me sad. 

I dream of the days that I did not need to have a political stance on everyhing, and where films, tv, and now games forced their idea of the correct political stance on me.

[Bobbis 208]

7 hours ago, Senou said:

Edit: Maybe even some cross- race relationships. Yes we had Lor'themar and Thalyssra but they're both elves. Imagine a tauren and an orc or something which differs in design even more. Maybe create a hybrid offspring which becomes more important later in the story, like some sort of heir to a leader. I don't know.
 

Do the Stonetalon quest line on horde, there's a sick sick orc that would like a word ?

  

16 minutes ago, Koki said:

Everything is political now, even wow needs to be. I do not think the devs at wow want to be political but I think they have to, and it makes me sad. 

I dream of the days that I did not need to have a political stance on everyhing, and where films, tv, and now games forced their idea of the correct political stance on me.

The thing is, they don't have to be, they can ignore the world we're in since, it's all about the world we're going to, Azeroth, and they don't have to have the same things we do, that's the whole idea of fantasy, and I'd respect a company more for saying that when making these things.

Equally, if I hadn't read on here about Pelagos, I would likely never have noticed. The Flynn / Shaw thing I kinda get, after the vault heist, though I though Shaw and Valeera were more suited but likely since both are spymasters.

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Bobbis
2nd quote

[Bobbis 208]

6 hours ago, Ravenclaw89 said:

This is a step, is nice ?

Maybe someday a gay lead character would come soon.  Meanwhile, we need these steps.

You don't care about this characters o details, if this bothers you it's only beacuse it's a LGBT+ thing. Otherwhise this wouldn't be a note at all. If you are straight don't come here to complain about representation or "dislike the idea of such themes being shoved down my throat all the time".

I mean, Anduin? All cinematics and past leads to Wrathion, another dude, and dragon, so crosses the inter racial too. Only reason atm for him to go hetero is the ole medieval king needs kids line.

Otherwise, if they do it right, sure idgaf what way the char swings their junk, as long as they swing their sword right. The character needs to be good, and do their lore/game purpose properly, and the gay/black/asian/w.e is a part of the character but not their main personality trait. This is the issue most people have with these things.