Vengeance Demon Hunter PvE

[positiv2 953]

This thread is for comments about our Vengeance Demon Hunter Shadowlands Guide.

[Guest encoded]

Section 1 reads:

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with low-cost and high-uptime active mitigation

However, the strengths and weaknesses reads:

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- Low uptime of active mitigation.

Those statements seem like they conflict?

[Guest Specific Builds]

Needs specific builds added, spirit bomb doesn't provide a worthwhile enough boost to DPS when Kyrian to be worth using. Also Quickened sigils becomes very nice once you have the right legendary for Kyrian Vengeance DH

[Excidias 3]

16 hours ago, Guest Specific Builds said:

Needs specific builds added, spirit bomb doesn't provide a worthwhile enough boost to DPS when Kyrian to be worth using. Also Quickened sigils becomes very nice once you have the right legendary for Kyrian Vengeance DH

From the Sims I saw 3 nights ago, SPB provides a 8-10% ST boost and a 17% AoE boost over not using SPB. This is quite significant. My suggestion has been and always will be going as much DPS as possible WHILE not being a survival concern. That breaking point is dependent on person. For instance, a lot of DH went Gluttony in Nya'lotha because it provided a level of survival they needed. I full cleared Mythic with SPB because I was comfortable with the class, my play, and my healers that I didnt need it. I also was the tank that almost never died on progression. What worked for me may not work for someone else. Point is, there is no "one size fits all". If you or someone else needs the fiery brand build in M+10 or Mythic raids, you should use it but I am not going to recommend as the solution for everyone. 

With that being said, there are only 2 main builds. SPB and Fiery brand. There are changes you can make with the builds but the builds themselves remain the same. For instance, taking Feed the Demon but still running SPB. 

Lastly, there are two main thoughts from tanks that I've seen. Go with what I recommend of maximizing damage while not being a survival problem and going full turtle mode. Myself and a lot of my tank theorycrafting friends are in camp 1. I understand the thought off camp 2 but don't agree with it. If I was recruiting a tank and two tanks never died in progression based on what they did, I would always take the tank with the highest damage. It allows the raid to do slightly less damage to hit the same required dps benchmark. I'll review what I typed to make sure it is clear of both builds. Thanks!

[Guatral 0]

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 If you are Kyrian and you are using  Razelikh's Defilement legendary power, do not ever use Sigil of Flame

Can you explain this please? I see no reason not to use it 😳

[Excidias 3]

12 hours ago, Guatral said:

Can you explain this please? I see no reason not to use it 😳

Sure. So Razelikh will lower only 1 sigil out of every sigil that is on cooldown. Sigil of flame does significantly less damage than Elysian Decree. If you use Sigil of Flame, it has a 50% chance to lower the cooldown of Elysian Decree or Sigil of Flame. If you dont use Sigil of Flame, it has a 100% chance to lower the cooldown of it. Since sigil of flame really does very little damage, you don't want Razelikh to lower the cooldown of it but instead your other sigils. Most players are only using Elysian Decree and none of the other sigils unless needed that way Razelikh always lowers the cd of ED. 

Note: You should always use Sigil of Silence and Misery when needed. I do not recommend purposely ignoring them to maximizing damage with ED.

[Guest Demonius]

The PVP talent list is missing "Reverse Magic". 

[Excidias 3]

18 hours ago, Guest Demonius said:

The PVP talent list is missing "Reverse Magic". 

I'll get it added. Thanks!

[Guest dafamilia]

When you say 

1.  Razelikh's Defilement will lower the cooldown of  Elysian Decree by 2 seconds when casting  Soul Cleave if Kyrian is the selected Covenant. This will increase both single target and AoE damage. This will also decrease the cooldown of a Sigil selected at random by 8 seconds. This increases overall utility.
2.  Fiery Soul is the best defensive option for Vengeance.  Fiery Brand cooldown is lowered by 2 seconds for each Soul consumed by  Soul Cleave. If combined with the  Fel Defender conduit, the cooldown of Fiery Brand will be drastically reduced. This legendary will hurt both single target and AoE damage because  Spirit Bomb is useless when all of the souls are being consumed by Soul Cleave. 

I am asking if i play with Razelikh’s defilement 

It is realy worth to play with spirit bomb?

Because spirit bomb don’t reduce the cd of my Elysian decree 

[Excidias 3]

11 hours ago, Guest dafamilia said:

When you say 

1.  Razelikh's Defilement will lower the cooldown of  Elysian Decree by 2 seconds when casting  Soul Cleave if Kyrian is the selected Covenant. This will increase both single target and AoE damage. This will also decrease the cooldown of a Sigil selected at random by 8 seconds. This increases overall utility.
2.  Fiery Soul is the best defensive option for Vengeance.  Fiery Brand cooldown is lowered by 2 seconds for each Soul consumed by  Soul Cleave. If combined with the  Fel Defender conduit, the cooldown of Fiery Brand will be drastically reduced. This legendary will hurt both single target and AoE damage because  Spirit Bomb is useless when all of the souls are being consumed by Soul Cleave. 

I am asking if i play with Razelikh’s defilement 

It is realy worth to play with spirit bomb?

Because spirit bomb don’t reduce the cd of my Elysian decree 

Yes because Spirit bomb still does more damage in a dungeon than Elysian Decree. By playing Razelikh, nothing changes when it comes to your rotation. You will trigger it when you use Soul Cleave after you cast spirit bomb. It isnt a huge boost but it is something.

[Guest PVPer]

Good guide, but it’s entirely PVE centric.

A big portion of it, especially when talking about Kyrians and how they’re the best covenant, become obsolete when considering PVP content like Arena.

In Arena, Night Fae is the best covenant, due to the One-Shot potential of the Hunt ability.

[Guest optimizer]

Nice guide!

Question for the BiS item part: I have my Razelikhs defilement on my wrists, but im not sure if i want to invest soul ash into it yet, as i am not sure about potential item combinations and it ends up being better having it on the legs slot instead. What are your thoughts on the subject?

[Excidias 3]

On 12/24/2020 at 1:49 PM, Guest optimizer said:

Nice guide!

Question for the BiS item part: I have my Razelikhs defilement on my wrists, but im not sure if i want to invest soul ash into it yet, as i am not sure about potential item combinations and it ends up being better having it on the legs slot instead. What are your thoughts on the subject?

I would only switch to legs if you have the money/soul ash to make the switch. I personally wouldn't do it since I don't like to farm gold to reinvest into another slot for the same legendary power. I would make a Fiery Soul legendary instead.

[Bilgemuffin 0]

I can confirm that the anima ability "demonglass curio" does reduce the cooldown of "Elysian Decree" in torghast, ill try to get a screenshot next time I get it in a run

[Excidias 3]

6 minutes ago, Bilgemuffin said:

I can confirm that the anima ability "demonglass curio" does reduce the cooldown of "Elysian Decree" in torghast, ill try to get a screenshot next time I get it in a run

Awesome. Thank you. I will be taking another pass through the anima power list myself this week or weekend to update everything from my perspective as well. As of right now, all Elysian Decree damage boost abilities don't work at all. Thanks!

[Guest Zyix]

Finely Honed Bone Blades anima power is listed as terrible but is actually one of our stronger ones at the moment because despite it saying "Increase sigil of flame Damage by 50%" it also increases elysian sigil damage by 50% at the moment. The two powers which are actually supposed to increase elysian sigil damage still seem to do nothing

[Excidias 3]

9 hours ago, Guest Zyix said:

Finely Honed Bone Blades anima power is listed as terrible but is actually one of our stronger ones at the moment because despite it saying "Increase sigil of flame Damage by 50%" it also increases elysian sigil damage by 50% at the moment. The two powers which are actually supposed to increase elysian sigil damage still seem to do nothing

Agreed. The powers are bugged at the moment. I'm making my anima power pass this weekend to get everything updated. Thanks!

[Guest Dan]

How are you supposed to open a pull with Fel Devastation if you are at 0 Fury?

[Vilandro 0]

On 12/28/2020 at 6:32 PM, Excidias said:

Awesome. Thank you. I will be taking another pass through the anima power list myself this week or weekend to update everything from my perspective as well. As of right now, all Elysian Decree damage boost abilities don't work at all. Thanks!

can confirm this too, had multiple Demonglass Curio and reduced the cooldown from Elysian Decree to at least 19 seconds (paired with Quickened Sigils )

found another nice thing for torghast btw: 

put Growing Inferno in a potency slot, then you just need to be lucky and get Grim Tinder and maybe some multiple Immolation Flux -> amazing damage inc

but be aware of refreshing immolation aura yourself, it will also refresh tick dmg, just let it tick and refresh itself due the proc of grim tinder 

(screenshot is german, but i guess, it will be self-explaining)

greetings

[Guest Yop]

Hi!

Thank you for this very nice guide. :
 

- Does anyone have any advice on trinkets when running Kyrian? I saw a 207 Relic of the first ones for sale, quite expensive but seems sooo good !

- In addition to the uselessness of Concentrated sigils talent, this entire talent can be replaced by a single macro and you can use all your sigils concentrated or remotely, depending on the situation, much more interesting!!

[Excidias 3]

On 1/5/2021 at 4:01 AM, Guest Dan said:

How are you supposed to open a pull with Fel Devastation if you are at 0 Fury?

You build fury then use it. However, in mythic+, there are a lot of times you have 50 fury going into the next pull which allows you to open with it. If a pull is dying and the next pull is a big pull, sometimes I purposely save 50 fury to open the next big pack with fel dev.

[Excidias 3]

15 hours ago, Vilandro said:

can confirm this too, had multiple Demonglass Curio and reduced the cooldown from Elysian Decree to at least 19 seconds (paired with Quickened Sigils )

found another nice thing for torghast btw: 

put Growing Inferno in a potency slot, then you just need to be lucky and get Grim Tinder and maybe some multiple Immolation Flux -> amazing damage inc

but be aware of refreshing immolation aura yourself, it will also refresh tick dmg, just let it tick and refresh itself due the proc of grim tinder 

(screenshot is german, but i guess, it will be self-explaining)

greetings

   Thanks for the fantastic feedback! Appreciate the assist. I didnt realize refreshing immo yourself would remove the tick increasing tick from Growing Inferno. I'll get them updated. Thanks!

[Excidias 3]

14 hours ago, Guest Yop said:

Hi!

Thank you for this very nice guide. :
 

- Does anyone have any advice on trinkets when running Kyrian? I saw a 207 Relic of the first ones for sale, quite expensive but seems sooo good !

- In addition to the uselessness of Concentrated sigils talent, this entire talent can be replaced by a single macro and you can use all your sigils concentrated or remotely, depending on the situation, much more interesting!!

1. I'm looking at getting the trinket section updated this week. Some key trinkets are 1. Blood spattered trinket from hakkar. 2 Phial from plaguefall. 3. Chains from Sludgefist. 4. Legion trinket from Generals from the raid. These are 4 trinkets i'm personally looking for. Stay tuned for the full list this week.

2. Agreed. The only good thing about concentrated is the prolonged sigil effects but I will probably never use it over quickened and chains.

[Guest Helio]

Hello,

How often should I be using  Soul Cleave? Is it better (higher damage or higher healing or both) to keep maxing Soul Fragments and dropping huge spirit bombs? Or Spirit bomb once to apply the debuff on group pulls, then use soul cleave until I need to Spirit Bomb  to reapply buff? I assume this is how I will play once I get the Fiery Brand Legendary. 

Thanks

[Excidias 3]

13 hours ago, Guest Helio said:

Hello,

How often should I be using  Soul Cleave? Is it better (higher damage or higher healing or both) to keep maxing Soul Fragments and dropping huge spirit bombs? Or Spirit bomb once to apply the debuff on group pulls, then use soul cleave until I need to Spirit Bomb  to reapply buff? I assume this is how I will play once I get the Fiery Brand Legendary. 

Thanks

If you take spb, you always use spb at 4+ souls and then immediately use soul cleave after to spend the rest of the fury. You do this in essentially every situation. The debuff from spb is not worth much. You want the large soul intake and damage from spb. If you are going to use the Fiery Soul leggo, then you wouldnt even take spb to start with.