Protection Paladin

[positiv2 952]

This thread is for comments about our Protection Paladin Shadowlands Guide.

[Guest Stat priority.]

I dinf it odd that strength isn't first for us?  it's not even onhte list?  wtf?

 

[Guest IronMayden - Dalaran]

Can anyone else confirm that unlike Light's Decree, Relentless Inquisitor doesn't proc cross-spec, as of pre-patch? 

[Guest lights decree]

in the live prepatch and lights decree says retribution only....

[Guest IronMayden - Dalaran]

You can still equip Light's Decree & it functions as Prot, but you have to be in Ret to be able to lock in the selection.

[Guest Entendu]

Hi, slightly confused as in your rotation you say to use Hammer of Wrath however this is a retribution skill?

[Treckie 1]

On 10/18/2020 at 6:01 PM, Guest Stat priority. said:

I dinf it odd that strength isn't first for us?  it's not even onhte list?  wtf?

 

Strength is good, and that's why it is generally recommended to pick a higher item level piece over one that has "better" stats (not always the case but a good rule of thumb)

 

19 hours ago, Guest IronMayden - Dalaran said:

Can anyone else confirm that unlike Light's Decree, Relentless Inquisitor doesn't proc cross-spec, as of pre-patch? 

You still get the benefit such as damage and increased wings duration, and for damage purpose only it can definitely be worth having multiple of this trait.
It does require you to be specced into retribution to select the trait, but with the change of Holy Power for Protection, the trait gained a lot of value compared to before pre-patch.

 

4 hours ago, Guest Entendu said:

Hi, slightly confused as in your rotation you say to use Hammer of Wrath however this is a retribution skill?

With the arrival of Pre-patch, Protection paladins also gained access to this ability ?

[Guest Entendu]

1 hour ago, Treckie said:

Strength is good, and that's why it is generally recommended to pick a higher item level piece over one that has "better" stats (not always the case but a good rule of thumb)

 

You still get the benefit such as damage and increased wings duration, and for damage purpose only it can definitely be worth having multiple of this trait.
It does require you to be specced into retribution to select the trait, but with the change of Holy Power for Protection, the trait gained a lot of value compared to before pre-patch.

 

With the arrival of Pre-patch, Protection paladins also gained access to this ability ?

Haha brilliant, I completely missed it in my spell book! Thank you for clearing that up dude!

[Guest Syrlin]

Quote

Soaring Shield can be good to have should you be running with Crusader's Judgment as it does not stack with First Avenger.

Just wanted to point out that Soaring Shield does indeed stack with First Avenger, hitting a total of 6 targets. This is reflected both in Avenger Shield's tooltip and in-game testing.

[Taclin 0]

In "6. Cooldown Usage for Protection Paladins" it says:

Lay on Hands is essentially a massive heal with a very long cooldown. It will heal you (or a targeted ally) for your maximum health, with a 10-minute cooldown. It is best used as an emergency heal, either for yourself or another raid member, if you are unable to cast Light of the Protector due to its global cooldown, or because you recently used it.

Light of the Protector was removed in 9.0, wasn't it?

[Guest Thalonsreven - Eonar]

Okay, I'm confused.  In talents/builds you recommend taking Holy Shield (and have the check on it) on line 1, even stating "We heavily recommend" taking it.  In the same section, you say that Blessed Hammer (which has a ?) is preferred over Holy Shield.  Then, in your rotations/cooldowns section, you talk about using Blessed Hammer.  So, which is it?

[Cetraben 1]

RE: Soaring Shield

On 10/25/2020 at 7:01 AM, Guest Syrlin said:

Just wanted to point out that Soaring Shield does indeed stack with First Avenger, hitting a total of 6 targets. This is reflected both in Avenger Shield's tooltip and in-game testing.

There is an interaction which is undocumented which will be added in shortly where the Mastery gain from the trait is capped at 4 targets rather than the total number of bounces.

 

On 10/25/2020 at 10:13 AM, Taclin said:

In "6. Cooldown Usage for Protection Paladins" it says:

Lay on Hands is essentially a massive heal with a very long cooldown. It will heal you (or a targeted ally) for your maximum health, with a 10-minute cooldown. It is best used as an emergency heal, either for yourself or another raid member, if you are unable to cast Light of the Protector due to its global cooldown, or because you recently used it.

Light of the Protector was removed in 9.0, wasn't it?

Thank you for highlighting this. This will be updated to show Word of Glory.

 

6 hours ago, Guest Thalonsreven - Eonar said:

Okay, I'm confused.  In talents/builds you recommend taking Holy Shield (and have the check on it) on line 1, even stating "We heavily recommend" taking it.  In the same section, you say that Blessed Hammer (which has a ?) is preferred over Holy Shield.  Then, in your rotations/cooldowns section, you talk about using Blessed Hammer.  So, which is it?

Both talents have use cases, whilst Holy Shield is the more generic use, Blessed Hammer allows for more flexibility by not being constrained to melee range allowing you to both generate Holy Power and trigger Grand Crusader. The wording will get a little bit of an update to reflect this. Thanks.

 

[Guest eluni]

good general overview, thank you, but: 

1. it would be great to have at least a rough idea about trade-off numeric ratios, e.g. if i have two pieces of the same item level: a. with 14 strength and 20 stamina; b. with 18 strengh and 12 stamina, which one is better or would it be correct to keep the former for protection and the latter for retribution spec?

2. as for other stats, i.e. dodge, parry, block, leech - what is their priority for protection spec (ideally with trade-off ratios too) vs the stats mentioned above?

[Cetraben 1]

On 11/11/2020 at 11:29 AM, Guest eluni said:

1. it would be great to have at least a rough idea about trade-off numeric ratios, e.g. if i have two pieces of the same item level: a. with 14 strength and 20 stamina; b. with 18 strengh and 12 stamina, which one is better or would it be correct to keep the former for protection and the latter for retribution spec?

2. as for other stats, i.e. dodge, parry, block, leech - what is their priority for protection spec (ideally with trade-off ratios too) vs the stats mentioned above?

Just for clarification purposes, the item level of an item determines the amount of Primary Stat (Str/Agi/Int/Stam/Armor) it would have. This varies by the item slot it lives in, so the scenario outlined in your 1st point would never exist. You would simply use the item with the highest item level and when those item levels are the same you start to look at the secondary stats on the item and consider which is the better item from them (generally if it has Haste and either Mastery/Versatility that's the item you want).

As for the 2nd point. Dodge/Parry/Block are not driven by stats on the item.
Crit = Parry (but at a very low level so it's nothing you would actively aim for)
Block = Shield Item Level
Dodge = Only items which explicitly state they have Dodge on them would work for Paladin.
Leech = As this is a tertiary stat its nothing you can realistically aim for, the value of Leech would not be high enough for prot to lose item level or optimal item stats for. (Example: If you had an item with Crit/Mastery/Leech, you wouldn't use that item if you had a Haste/Mastery item instead). 

[Guest Aarandal]

Hey Treckie, while im well aware there has been a long established stat priority for prot paladins, Im wondering if Crit and Versatility become more important after taking into account the First Avenger Talent, in addition to our AS reset legendary as well as soul conduits and Divine Toll.

[Guest eluni]

On 11/12/2020 at 8:20 PM, Cetraben said:

Just for clarification purposes, the item level of an item determines the amount of Primary Stat (Str/Agi/Int/Stam/Armor) it would have. This varies by the item slot it lives in, so the scenario outlined in your 1st point would never exist. 

Thank you for your answer.

In reality many scenarios exist, even when items are of the same level. Let me give you an example of two items that are currently in my bags. Both are blue and ilvl 25. Doomplate Warhelm has 6 strength and 9 stamina and Sea Raider's Helmet has 9 strength and 6 stamina. So that is very different value despite the same ilvl.

If we agree that strength is better than stamina even for a tank and prefer the latter item, then there is yet another scenario (again it's in my bags) that the former item has sockets, so I can significantly improve e.g. haste with gems. That's why it would be great to have at least a rough idea of the trade-offs values between the stats. 

As for the 2nd point, let me again give you an example of items that are currently in my bags. All 25 ilvl blues: Blistering Seawater Seal has 13 Crit/ 9 Haste/ 3 Leech; Loop of Vitriolic Intent has 15 Haste/ 7 Mastery; Band of the Stalwart Stanchion has 4 Strength/ 3 Versatility/ 5 Mastery; and Nerubian Shield Ring has 4 Strength/ 1 Versatility/ 3 Dodge. Without using trade-off ratios between stats, it's hard to choose a better item here.

 

 

[Guest Chris]

Hi I noticed that there is a bit of confusion regarding the page about conduits and covenants, some parts of the guide seems to reference blood DK abilities, especially in the part about necrolord covenant and flesh craft  

[Cetraben 1]

3 hours ago, Guest Chris said:

Hi I noticed that there is a bit of confusion regarding the page about conduits and covenants, some parts of the guide seems to reference blood DK abilities, especially in the part about necrolord covenant and flesh craft  

Hi Chris. Thanks for highlighting these issues. It's looks as though some of the information I had written for Blood DK made its way into the Protection Paladin pages! They've been removed/replaced where applicable.

I've also looked into the issues of the empty soulbind trees in the guide and that should now be fixed.

[Cetraben 1]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:59 AM, Guest eluni said:

Thank you for your answer.

In reality many scenarios exist, even when items are of the same level. Let me give you an example of two items that are currently in my bags. Both are blue and ilvl 25. Doomplate Warhelm has 6 strength and 9 stamina and Sea Raider's Helmet has 9 strength and 6 stamina. So that is very different value despite the same ilvl.

If we agree that strength is better than stamina even for a tank and prefer the latter item, then there is yet another scenario (again it's in my bags) that the former item has sockets, so I can significantly improve e.g. haste with gems. That's why it would be great to have at least a rough idea of the trade-offs values between the stats. 

As for the 2nd point, let me again give you an example of items that are currently in my bags. All 25 ilvl blues: Blistering Seawater Seal has 13 Crit/ 9 Haste/ 3 Leech; Loop of Vitriolic Intent has 15 Haste/ 7 Mastery; Band of the Stalwart Stanchion has 4 Strength/ 3 Versatility/ 5 Mastery; and Nerubian Shield Ring has 4 Strength/ 1 Versatility/ 3 Dodge. Without using trade-off ratios between stats, it's hard to choose a better item here.

Some of those primary stat differences are odd, but look to be caused by numerous rounds of stat squishes and multiple expansions worth of gear becoming normalised. Low level items are typically not fixed until highlighted as issues, but for the most part they're worn for very short periods of time so in the grand scheme of things it should not impact the flow of your levelling experience.

As with levelling, your stat priority would still follow that of max level where you would prioritise Strength and then your secondary stat priority Haste > Versatility/Mastery > Crit. Tertiary stats should not be a factor when deciding what item to wear (unless its an added bonus versus an item without one).

For levelling specifically if the trade off exists between Stamina and Strength, Stamina would be forsaken that as the damage taken should be at a very reasonable level and is designed around having much lower gear than what is received from the content, and being able to deal more damage via having more Strength will yield better results for your levelling experience.

[Guest eluni]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:22 PM, Cetraben said:

Tertiary stats should not be a factor

Thank you for your clarification.

Do I understand it correctly, that I should prefer +9 Haste over +9 Dodge even as a tank role (Protection Paladin)? Frankly, it'd be a bit counterintuitive for me, but ok. And if it's +9 Haste vs +10 Dodge I just have to use my judgement (excuse the paladin's pun), no idea about the trade-off ratios can be given.

As for a trade-off between primary vs secondary stats, my example of 4 same ilevel rings above seems to suggest that +1 primary stat (e.g. Strength) is roughly equal to +4 secondary stat (e.g. Haste). Does that make sense?

[Guest Trukatos]

Hi,

for the Bulwark of Righteous Fury the recommended slot is shoulder over finger. What is the reasoning for that?

[Cetraben 1]

11 hours ago, Guest Trukatos said:

Hi,

for the Bulwark of Righteous Fury the recommended slot is shoulder over finger. What is the reasoning for that?

Two reasons for this:
 - Shoulder has Strength on it, Ring does not.
 - Shoulder slots have higher amounts of stats on them compared to rings at the same item level.

[Guest Trukatos]

5 hours ago, Cetraben said:

Two reasons for this:
 - Shoulder has Strength on it, Ring does not.
 - Shoulder slots have higher amounts of stats on them compared to rings at the same item level.

Ok, I couldn't find the item with the ability and stats crafted on it. That's why I had no clue about the stats.
But this clarifies it, thanks alot!

[Guest Cal]

So according to our Stat Prio. Haste and Mastery are top.
So why isn't Wrathbark Greathelm our BiS from 5 Mans?

Drops from Ingra Maloch in Mists of Tirna Scithe, is it preferred to have some gear with other Secondary stats that aren't top in Stat Prio.?

Just curious, thanks for all the info in this guide.

[Guest LiveguyCC]

Relentless Inquisitor is listed as the best legendary effect for raiding as Protection. But relentless Inquisitor is Retribution only. Does it still function if you equip it as Ret the switch to Prot?