Retribution Paladin PvE

[positiv2 952]

This thread is for comments about our Retribution Paladin Shadowlands Guide.

[Guest Retbull]

What does ~= mean? 

[Guest sock]

Quote

It is important to note that, when generating Holy Power, if you have only 1 Crusader Strike Icon Crusader Strike charge available, you should immediately stop generating Holy Power and go to the Holy Power-spending priority

Why?

[Urthearso 2]

On 10/16/2020 at 2:31 AM, Guest Retbull said:

What does ~= mean? 

It means about-equal. It is synonymous to ≈.

The reason for using it in this case is because all our secondary stats are about equally important, but their priority compared to each other is different for each Retribution Paladin profile based on many different aspects.

This is the exact reason why the stats page tells you that only simulating your own character can result in the most accurate result for you.

One of many examples is that if you use multiple Avengers Might Azerite traits, for single-target, your Mastery value will drop below all other secondary stats.

Another example is if you use multiple Expurgation Azerite trait, your Critical Strike might become your most important stat.

A more general example is that if you have very low amounts of Haste, Haste will become your highest priority secondary stat until the weight drops in your simulations back to being on par to your other secondary stats. For this case, you could swap your gems and ring enchants for Haste equivalents to maximize your dps.

These 3 examples are just very few examples of what affects the weight of your stats, which is why making a fixed stat priority is impossible.  If someone tells you a fixed stat priority, or even gives you specific weights for your Retribution Paladin, he is 100% wrong. I can only tell you that all stats are worth using, just the balance between them for best results is up to you to simulate based on your own profile.

[Urthearso 2]

On 10/17/2020 at 3:52 AM, Guest sock said:

Why?

Because spending Holy Power at that point is a better use of a GCD than using Crusader Strike another time to build Holy Power.

The chances are very high that you have a better Holy Power generator available to you after using the GCD to spend Holy Power. Crusader Strike is just this bad.

 

[Guest Corrupt]

Will this guide change with these changes https://www.wowhead.com/news=319018/shadowlands-pre-patch-class-tuning-changes-threat-generation-increased-for-tanks?  For example will, Sanctified Wrath be the go to for the last talent slot or will Final Reckoning still be the best? 

[Guest Guest]

Quote

is currently the recommended choice in this tier for constant single-target.

Why? Some modicum of explanation on the various choices asserted in this "guide" would be nice. A guide should explain the Why as much as the What. This guide certainly does the latter, but frustratingly little of the former.

[Guest Mosayru]

Why Enchant Weapon - Torrent of Elements ?

[Guest Kylex]

I think the part about Level 25 is wrong... Or at least I don't know how that would make sense:

If you have taken  Divine Purpose and also play with  Divine Purpose, always first consume the  Divine Purpose with another Holy Power spender than  Divine Storm, otherwise it will consume both at the same time.

[Urthearso 2]

7 hours ago, Guest Kylex said:

I think the part about Level 25 is wrong... Or at least I don't know how that would make sense:

If you have taken  Divine Purpose and also play with  Divine Purpose, always first consume the  Divine Purpose with another Holy Power spender than  Divine Storm, otherwise it will consume both at the same time.

This is correct, it should be Empyrean Power instead of the first Divine Purpose. Thanks!

[Guest Phill]

I'm sorry, but how exactly does Badge of the Mad Paragon "synergize well" with Ashen Hallow?  Avenging Wrath already allows the use of Hammer of Wrath.  You cannot extend it any further by using Ashen Hallow at the last second because your Avenging Wrath will expire regardless before your next Hammer of Wrath becomes available.

[Urthearso 2]

15 hours ago, Guest Phill said:

I'm sorry, but how exactly does Badge of the Mad Paragon "synergize well" with Ashen Hallow?  Avenging Wrath already allows the use of Hammer of Wrath.  You cannot extend it any further by using Ashen Hallow at the last second because your Avenging Wrath will expire regardless before your next Hammer of Wrath becomes available.

You are correct, the feature that it allows you to use Hammer of Wrath is useless because you always use it with Avenging Wrath, which allows it anyhow, but this is also not the reason for the good synergy. While using the Mad Paragon legendary, our Avenging Wrath lasts close to 30 seconds, depending on how much haste you have. Ashen Hollow gives us a 100% damage increase to our Hammer of Wrath also for 30 seconds. During this time while both run together, you get insanely strong Hammer of Wrath casts, which gives you very strong single-target burst damage. Mad Paragon not only makes our Avenging Wrath last longer while we have the Hammer of Wrath buff from Ashen Hollow, but also gives us a 30% increase to Hammer of Wrath itself, which in combination makes it hit really really hard in general.

[Guest Morvran]

Out of date, the effect by The Mad Paragon is different and I'm not sure its correct

[Urthearso 2]

2 hours ago, Guest Morvran said:

Out of date, the effect by The Mad Paragon is different and I'm not sure its correct

The recommendations in the guide are based on the current version with 30% Hammer of Wrath damage amplification and 1-second Avenging Wrath extension. Some tooltips are not up to date.

[Guest Retnna]

As a Ret paladin I seem I’ve been building my paladin wrong. I hat secondary second stat do I get for the belt besides haste

[Guest tejay]

Why aren't oils or sharpening stones listed under consumables?

[Matthyas 1]

Just a heads up, Badge of the Mad Paragon is an anima power from Torghast. The correct legendary is called The Mad Paragon which you get from completing any keystone from the quest to claim your reward from The Great Vault.

[Urthearso 2]

On 12/22/2020 at 1:24 AM, Guest Retnna said:

As a Ret paladin I seem I’ve been building my paladin wrong. I hat secondary second stat do I get for the belt besides haste

It will always change which secondary stat would be better depending on your gear, but haste + mastery is a safe bet for both single-target and cleave for the legendary.

[Urthearso 2]

22 hours ago, Guest tejay said:

Why aren't oils or sharpening stones listed under consumables?

Since we dont use oils as ret paladins as of right now, the sharpening stones are listed within the enhancement table on the consumable page.

[Urthearso 2]

17 hours ago, Matthyas said:

Just a heads up, Badge of the Mad Paragon is an anima power from Torghast. The correct legendary is called The Mad Paragon which you get from completing any keystone from the quest to claim your reward from The Great Vault.

Thanks for the heads up, the legenday page indeed had the wrong tag for the mad paragon legendary.

[Guest Asketill]

Your Conduit guide appears to contradict itself. You have "Virtuous Command" and "Expurgation" as your 2 Tier-A conduits for single target, but in all of your raid soulbinds you have "VC" as the first potency conduit, but "Templar's Vindication" as the second choice. If you suggest "TV" as the second potency for all of your raid soulbinds, than why is it not listed as a tier-A for single target? I understand not all fights in raid are ST, but the majority of them are, or have a priority target. Thank you in advance for your response.

[Urthearso 2]

On 1/9/2021 at 9:12 PM, Guest Asketill said:

Your Conduit guide appears to contradict itself. You have "Virtuous Command" and "Expurgation" as your 2 Tier-A conduits for single target, but in all of your raid soulbinds you have "VC" as the first potency conduit, but "Templar's Vindication" as the second choice. If you suggest "TV" as the second potency for all of your raid soulbinds, than why is it not listed as a tier-A for single target? I understand not all fights in raid are ST, but the majority of them are, or have a priority target. Thank you in advance for your response.

This is intended.

On the one side, the Expurgation Conduit while using the recommended talents and gear can perform better than the TV Conduit, or be very close in performance and bring other advantages. On the other side, the TV Conduit will at all times be a very good single-target conduit, regardless of talents and gear.

You need to simulate your own character here to figure which one to use for yourself.

Basically without knowing which gear and talents each person uses, the TV Conduit is the only reliable recommendation to make that will work reliably for everyone. Even for people who have a proper profile to use Expurgation, the TV Conduit will be a extremely close alternative.

To sum some info up:

- Expurgation can be as good as TV Conduit for raw single-target throughput for certain talent setup (with optimized gear even better).

- Expurgation requires specific talents to be close in value, while TV Conduit does work great with any.

- Expurgation grants full priority target value, even in mixed or cleave situations, while TV Conduit is for pure single-target encounters.

- You need to simulate your own profile to figure out the optimal answer for your own character.

- If Expurgation simulates higher over the TV Conduit for your character, then by all means use it for all the upsides it comes with, and dont blindly follow the general recommended soulbind loadouts.

 

[Folund 0]

Hello, i would like to know why for Kyrian Paladin, Seraphim is recommended for all situations ?What make this situation in the Kyrian abilities ?

[Urthearso 2]

On 1/23/2021 at 8:39 AM, Folund said:

Hello, i would like to know why for Kyrian Paladin, Seraphim is recommended for all situations ?What make this situation in the Kyrian abilities ?

You want to delay Seraphim and Wake of Ashes to use it depending on your talents every 1 min alongside Divine Toll, Wake of Ashes, Final Reckoning, and Execution Sentence for very strong burst every 1 min. If your personal simulations tell you that another talent works fine as well, you are free to pick that as well, but it will slightly diminish what Kyrian is really strong at. The PVP 1 min cd Trinket is strong for Kyrian because you stack it with this burst window.

[Guest Confused]

Why do you have Eye for an Eye in 2 rows? (35 & 40)

 

My paladin's choices are

15 - Zeal / Righteous Verdict / Execution Sentence

25 - Fires of Justice / Blade of Wrath / Empyrean Power

30 - Fist of Justice / Repentance / Blinding Light

35 - Unbreakable Spirit / Cavalier / Eye for an Eye

40 - Divine Purpose / Holy Avenger / Seraphim

45 - Selfless Healer / Justicar's Vengeance / Healing Hands

50 - Sanctified Wrath / Crusade / Final Reckoning

 

Please note that Consecration is NOT a talent option, so why is it's an option in your guide?