Assassination Rogue PvE

[Seliathan 12]

13 hours ago, Guest Phantom said:

Hey, I just wanted to inform you that the BIS section has the wrong gear and im guessing its not intentional.

Hey Phantom, what specifically are you referring to? Some of the items show as item-level 50 or less (you will notice the same issue when checking the dungeon journal for Halls of Valor), but I can assure you that all of these items can drop at the same itemlevel as any other Mythic+ item 🙂

[Guest Phantom]

Ah sorry i just thought it had the wrong gear since it was such low ilvl

[Seliathan 12]

8 hours ago, Guest Phantom said:

Ah sorry i just thought it had the wrong gear since it was such low ilvl

Yeah, it's an understandable mistake. I'll add a disclaimer in the next revision, as it's easy to think those items don't actually exist. Even looking at the dungeon journal it looks weird. 

[Guest AndyRogue]

Hey,

Is it worth noting in the M+ Affixes section that we can use Shiv to remove the enrage on Raging weeks?

[Seliathan 12]

On 2/23/2023 at 2:46 PM, Guest AndyRogue said:

Hey,

Is it worth noting in the M+ Affixes section that we can use Shiv to remove the enrage on Raging weeks?

Heyo! it currently says in the Utility section of the Mythic+ Page: 

Shiv can be used to dispel Enrage effects. Keep in mind that this means you will not be able to use Shiv for single-target damage.

However, it won't hurt to add it to the Affix section as well, so in the next revision you will be able to find it there as well.

[Guest Nozzles]

holy, this guide is garbage, shiv on cooldown lol what a waste of crit, mastery and amp

shiv's used at 5+ for a tripple envenom with tea, much more value than a on cooldown basis starving or at 1/2 cp lmao

[Seliathan 12]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:57 PM, Guest Nozzles said:

holy, this guide is garbage, shiv on cooldown lol what a waste of crit, mastery and amp

shiv's used at 5+ for a tripple envenom with tea, much more value than a on cooldown basis starving or at 1/2 cp lmao

Hey Nozzles. It's a bit more complicated than that, but generally speaking, holding onto a 25-second cooldown just to line it up better, is a DPS loss, as in, not using Shiv on CD is a DPS loss. Countless hours were spent on sims on this one particular topic already to find the best way to play, but they all point to the same result: Use Shiv on CD.  

Now, if you are able to line up your rotational gameplay in the way that you described, then that is definitely an improvement, i.e. do not use your 5 CP when Shiv is about to come off cooldown and you are not going to overcap Energy, or try spending your Energy prior to Shiv so you can Thistle Tea for the full Energy regen value as well as gaining the Mastery during Shiv. The value of Thistle Tea is not the Mastery, however, it's the Energy.

These optimizations for Shiv need to happen prior to using Shiv, so you still get to use Shiv on CD. Getting a bit of amp during Shiv is not worth it, because Envenom does not contribute as much damage to our overall DPS as you might think, and Thistle Tea is better used to maintain >90% uptime on Envenom/EP outside of Shiv windows instead of providing just a bit of Mastery during Shiv.

Also, and this is important: While we used to optimize the amount of Envenom casts during Shiv in Legion/BFA, this is no longer the case. EP/Envenom uptime is much more important than getting one extra Envenom into Shiv and potentially losing uptime on either of these buffs later down the line. Casting 3 Envenoms during Shiv is only worth if you can ensure that you will not be starving Energy or CP right after, as this would result in loss of EP/Envenom uptime.

The importance of pooling and setting up Shiv windows is explained in the guide under section 7.2 in the rotation guide. Many of the things you said are counter to any findings the theorycrafting community as a whole has had over the last couple of years, and these findings still hold true for Dragonflight. If you have evidence (as in sims) that suggest that these deeply researched gameplay priorities are no longer the best way to play, then I'd be more than happy to take a look and forward them, but until then, "the science is clear".

[Guest Anonymussy]

Good ol' Assassination Rogues with their Pistol Shot

[Seliathan 12]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:42 PM, Guest Anonymussy said:

Good ol' Assassination Rogues with their Pistol Shot

Hey there! I'm assuming you're referring to the mention of Pistol Shot in the Mythic+ section for Spiteful. That was an unfortunate mistake, and will be fixed asap. As Assassination you would use Poisoned Knife instead. 🙂

[Fang 0]

I noticed the easy mode guide says to use Crimson Tempest as your AoE spender, but the build on the guide doesn't use any skill points to unlock Crimson Tempest. Why is that?

[Seliathan 12]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:57 AM, Fang said:

I noticed the easy mode guide says to use Crimson Tempest as your AoE spender, but the build on the guide doesn't use any skill points to unlock Crimson Tempest. Why is that?

Hey Fang, sorry for the late reply!

The reason it is mentioned in the easy page, but not talented, is because the talentbuild linked on the easy-mode page is strictly for single-target fights. You can find more information on the AoE build, which uses Crimson Tempest, on either the Talent page of the guide, or the Mythic+ one. Hope that helps. ❤️

Kind Regards,
Seli

[Fang 0]

3 hours ago, Seliathan said:

Hey Fang, sorry for the late reply!

The reason it is mentioned in the easy page, but not talented, is because the talentbuild linked on the easy-mode page is strictly for single-target fights. You can find more information on the AoE build, which uses Crimson Tempest, on either the Talent page of the guide, or the Mythic+ one. Hope that helps. ❤️

Kind Regards,
Seli

Thank you! If I were to take Crimson Tempest on the easy mode build, what talent do you think I should take a point off of?

[Seliathan 12]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:41 PM, Fang said:

Thank you! If I were to take Crimson Tempest on the easy mode build, what talent do you think I should take a point off of?

Hey Fang! Terribly sorry for the late reply.

It's generally not recommended to just add Crimson Tempest to the single-target focused build, as it won't have a major effect on your overall DPS output on AoE unless you also pick up a variety of other talents that boost the specs cleave and AoE output. 

If you want to do it anyway, the simplest option would be to talent out of Vicious Venoms, and pick up Crimson Tempest and Flying Daggers instead. 

Hope that helps ❤️

 

[Guest Denalo]

Just a note, ''easy mode'' rotation says to use FOK as aoe builder and CT as finisher, but your easy mode build doesn't have CT in it.

[Seliathan 12]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:21 PM, Guest Denalo said:

Just a note, ''easy mode'' rotation says to use FOK as aoe builder and CT as finisher, but your easy mode build doesn't have CT in it.

Hey Denalo. This question was already answered only a handful of posts before yours 🙂

If you have any further questions on this, please dont hesitate to ask, I hope the explanation I've given in my last two responses shed enough light on the issue. 

[Drathos 1]

Hey, just wanted to mention, with the newest updates to the talents page, your single target and mythic+ are both using the same loadout, which from the look I assume is not what it's supposed to be. The M+ says it uses D-TB and not Acro Strike, but the nodes don't match with that at all.

[Seliathan 12]

3 hours ago, Drathos said:

Hey, just wanted to mention, with the newest updates to the talents page, your single target and mythic+ are both using the same loadout, which from the look I assume is not what it's supposed to be. The M+ says it uses D-TB and not Acro Strike, but the nodes don't match with that at all.

Hey Drathos,

You're correct, the descriptive text is not correct anymore and should've been removed. The tree itself is correct, and the text will be updated to reflect the new non-DTB build. My apologies.

Will be fixed shortly!

[Guest Charles]

Which of these Assassination specs do you recommend for a casual player that will primarily be playing solo doing quests and delves? 

[Seliathan 12]

8 hours ago, Guest Charles said:

Which of these Assassination specs do you recommend for a casual player that will primarily be playing solo doing quests and delves? 

Hey Charles. At the moment I'm personally running with this setup https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/the-war-within-talent-calculator#DE-FLMOfKNFSCYM6D0oCoMPEWYYcddDbCOuA-aeEGLZkLPQSYgwEPeYQ6qLoqyij7DkC-GIOQAGIogBF-

It's been serving me well, and is almost the exact same as the pre-dungeon/Delve builds featured on the Talents page of the guide, it just switches Caustic Spatter for Internal Bleeding. The import link is 

CMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYMjZmxMWmBAAAAAgZbwyMAAAAAA022MzwDMzgZmZZWGMGzMzMjZmZsttNmBYzsMwAWALDTghFA

You can play with either Mindnumbing Poison or Crippling, depending on how much damage you are taking. Kiting enemies while your DoT's do their work is definitely worth it to reduce the damage intake, as mobs hit quite hard this early into the expansion. You can also swap Shrouded Suffocation for Arterial Precision for some more AoE damage, if you end up pulling 3-5 mobs at the same time regularly. 

This build isn't that great for single-target (about 15% worse on ST), so if you ever find yourself in a raiding situation, I'd definitely recommend switching to a proper Raid build. 
 

[Guest Charles]

Thank you very much. What talent/s would you say is missing from this build that really lowers it's single target damage output? Dragon-tempered blades? 

[Seliathan 12]

10 minutes ago, Guest Charles said:

Thank you very much. What talent/s would you say is missing from this build that really lowers it's single target damage output? Dragon-tempered blades? 

Pretty much, yes. Not having DtB and Amplifying Poison (which works really well with Deathstalker) has a noticeable impact on single-target performance. It's not a massive deal, but since you get much more value out of your hero talent trees in a raid environment than in Delves and Open World Content, you end up losing a big chunk of damage if you were to play the linked build in raids.

It's actually quite frustrating how little impact either of the Hero Talent Trees have in Delves and Questing Content, since most of the benefits are lost between packs or you never get to build up to the big capstone ability before the mob dies. 

[Guest Charles]

Interesting. Maybe Subtlety is more what I should go with in this case. 

[Seliathan 12]

On 8/26/2024 at 6:08 PM, Guest Charles said:

Interesting. Maybe Subtlety is more what I should go with in this case. 

I'd definitely give it a try! The damage is a bit more front-loaded compared to Assassination, but unfortunately the Hero Talent Trees for Rogue in general are just very lackluster.

Trickster is definitely one that you'll notice more directly as you play, since it doesn't have a big ramp-up time compared to Fatebound or Deathstalker. 

[Drathos 1]

Quick question: Why all the shadow damage for Assass? As far as I know, Sub is the one with Shadow, and Assass is Nature. So I'm just curious.

[Seliathan 12]

On 10/2/2024 at 4:56 PM, Drathos said:

Quick question: Why all the shadow damage for Assass? As far as I know, Sub is the one with Shadow, and Assass is Nature. So I'm just curious.

Hey Drathos. I'm not quire sure what you mean, but if you're worried about all the plague damage in the Deathstalker tree, then that counts as both Shadow and Nature damage, so it generally works with all our nature damage increases. 

Please let me know in case I misunderstood what you meant. 🙂