Outlaw Rogue PvE

[positiv2 952]

This thread is for comments about our Outlaw Rogue Shadowlands Guide.

[Guest Deagroth]

Seeing as Roll the Bones now has a 30 duration along with a 45 second cooldown, you will need to pull off at least 15 combo points worth of finishers for Restless Blades to allow you to roll again as soon as the buffs wear off.  It seems that the days of fishing for good RtB combinations are over.

[Seliathan 12]

22 hours ago, Guest Deagroth said:

Seeing as Roll the Bones now has a 30 duration along with a 45 second cooldown, you will need to pull off at least 15 combo points worth of finishers for Restless Blades to allow you to roll again as soon as the buffs wear off.  It seems that the days of fishing for good RtB combinations are over.

It's not as bad as it seems at first glance, getting 15 CP even without Broadsides up doesn't actually take that long, and the RtB buffs still pandemic so its closer to being a 40 second duration if you re-rolled. It certainly skewed the re-roll priorities quite a bit however, and while previously we used to fish for specific buffs, we instead just avoid certain buffs (Buried Treasure/Grand Melee) like the plague.

If you're interested in a bit of data on the new Roll the Bones, you can check out the results of every buff combination and how much you lose/gain if you keep the buff until expiration instead of re-rolling once RtB comes off cooldown. GM and BT are in a really bad state at the moment, so hopefully there will be some additional changes before we go into Shadowlands.
 

As you can see on the right side (ignore the Covenant choice there, it doesn't matter for the purpose of the data ^^), even a 2-buff of Grand Melee+Buried Treasure is simply not worth keeping, while keeping pretty much any other buff is worth more than rolling over it once RtB comes back off cooldown. I personally don't mind not having to re-roll quite as much myself, but for someone who enjoyed the old way of fishing for buffs this change is definitely not that enjoyable. 

[RenegadeChewtoy 0]

when can we get a updated guide from SL? last update was Jan.

 

[Seliathan 12]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:27 PM, RenegadeChewtoy said:

when can we get a updated guide from SL? last update was Jan.

 

Hey RenegadeChewtoy. 

The guide is up-to-date for the current pre-patch 9.0.1 which includes a variety of changes that were initially teased as changes coming with Shadowlands. While there are a few new things that you will gain access to once Shadowland releases and you can level up to level 60, those will be added to the guide when Shadowlands is closer to its actual release. 

As of right now all the information in the guide pertains to the current version that is deployed on live-servers. 

[Guest sock]

Why would you not use Quick Draw w/ opportunity at 4 CP when you have Deeper Strategem?

[Seliathan 12]

Hey sock,

the most recent sim results favor a build that doesn't run Quickdraw due to how bad Ace and Deadshot have become as azerite traits. The current go-to azerite build is just Heart of Darkness, Brigands Blitz and maybe 1 Wits for any encounter that includes adds, and without any traits that boost Pistol Shot damage, Quickdraw and Opportunity procs have lost importance in the process, to the point where Ghostly Strike has become much better on single-target and you would rather sit on procs as long as you haven't run out of energy to cast Sinister Strike. 

If you're referring to this part however, you are correct:

Quote

10. Cast Pistol Shot if you have an Opportunity proc, you have 3 or less Combo Points and you cannot use Sinister Strike. If you have Quick Draw talented, use Opportunity procs whenever you have 3 or less Combo Points.

The rotational priorities generally try to include as few talented suggestions as possible. For rogue this generally means that all CP-thresholds are based on only having 5 maximum Combo Points, not 6. We will add a provision for DS to avoid confusion.
So in the case of running Deeper+Quick Draw, you would use the Opportunity proc at 4 or less, not 3 or less, as you pointed out. That still applies even when you have Broadside as your RtB buff. 

[Guest Arcerite]

Hey was wondering why the guide said that the best outlaw rogue leggo is showing as a monk talent for roll? dont know if this is if they have the same names or its just wrong i was just confused when i saw it

 

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Arcerite, this is indeed just an error in the tooltip as both abilities have the same name. It should be fixed shortly.

Celerity is the legendary power that is best for Outlaw.

Regards,

Seliathan

[Guest DJTS]

The rotation guide doesn't list finishing moves unless "deeper stratagem" is ticked.

[Seliathan 12]

Hey DJTS. You will want to play either Deeper Stratagem or Marked for Death in that talent tier. Ticking either box will show the correct rotational gameplay, including finishers, for either talent choice.

[Noctx 0]

Idk if this is the right place to do it but in the legendary tab you are linking "Master Assassin" as in the assassination rogue talent, when i think you meant to link the legendary "Mark of the master assassin"

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Noctx. Thanks for mentioning it, there is indeed a wrong tooltip there. Will be fixed shortly :)

[Guest REALLEBLUFFSKI]

Guides today made by the newgens under 30: "Start of guide, go use Simcraft. End of Guide" Haha, is it too hard to think and experiment for yourself? If you are used to copy everything as kid, by growing up you won't be smart at all, you'll be saying "Use this software to get better". Wasted gen.

[Guest Tahu]

Concealed blunderbuss says it only deals damage, but im hearing from other outlaw rogues that the two extra shots grant combo points as well? 4 combo points per procced pistol shot (from sinister strike passive) sounds great for cooling down important skills, like rerolling bad buffs or getting access to blade flurry sooner on energy starved periods (on top of vanish and adrenaline rush of course).

It'd be nice to include that it at least smooths out our rotation even if it's not the best damage option. 

i have no idea if it works with broadsider to award potential six combo points though, which would be perfect for deeper stratagem. 

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Tahu.

You are indeed correct that the extra shots from Blunderbuss generate extra Combo Points. This is already reflected in the simulations however and Blunderbuss still doesn't come close in raw performance. The extra Pistol Shots generate even more extra Combo Points with Broadsides, but even without Broadsides any such Blunderbuss proc is already generating 5 Combo Points with Quick Draw talented. 

Ultimately it just cannot be recommended despite the upsides you pointed out, due to Celerity being that much stronger in all situations (and also smoothing out the rotation). If there are any balance changes that give it more of an edge, even if it is only situational, it will be reflected in the guide as well.

[rohnja 0]

Hey Seli, great job putting this guide for us to learn useful tips!

I have a question about this:

5.1.1. 

Pro Tip: How to Roll the Bones

The basic rule to satisfy regarding  Roll the Bones is to re-cast it and fish for different buffs if:

• you have 1 buff and  Loaded Dice available OR
• your current buff is either  Grand Melee,  Buried Treasure or  True Bearing OR
• your current 2-buff is  Grand Melee and  Buried Treasure.

The first bullet doesn't make sense to me. Does it mean we should always reroll if we have a single buff, when RtB is off CD, including any one of the good ones:

1.  Broadside;
2.  Ruthless Precision;
3.  Skull and Crossbones;

If that is the case, what is the difference with the second bullet, which suggests rerolling when one of the three mentioned buffs is up?

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Rohnja.

The first bullet is solely in case you are talented into Loaded Dice. If talented into it and you have the buff from the talent active, you do indeed roll over a good buff too (since you are guaranteed to get a 2-buff).

Without the talent, only the other 2 points apply, which is to re-roll either any individual buffs of those 3, or a 2-buff with both Grand Melee and Buried Treasure.

 

I hope that makes it a bit clearer :)

[Guest Moonscythe]

Could someone please address the use poisons in the Guide? I'm assuming it's something like Instant Poison main hand and Wound  Poison off hand, but it's been a while and I likely am misremembering.

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Moonscythe. Poisons are no longer used on weapons. Instead you use them from your spell-book as temporary buffs once an hour. You are limited to one lethal and one non-lethal poison, and will want to use Instant Poison in almost all situations in PvE content. 

[Guest Moonscythe]

On 12/21/2020 at 3:15 AM, Seliathan said:

Hey Moonscythe. Poisons are no longer used on weapons. Instead you use them from your spell-book as temporary buffs once an hour. You are limited to one lethal and one non-lethal poison, and will want to use Instant Poison in almost all situations in PvE content. 

Yeah, sounds like something to add to the Easy Mode page....

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Moonscythe.

A section dedicated to poisons is currently included in the rotations page, but we will also add it to the Easy Mode page in the next update :)

[Guest Supermelon]

Im wondering why this page has been neglected for over twenty days , while outlaw is quite clearly the best option for nathria raiding.

[Guest Guest]

Echoing Reprimand becomes a literally useless covenent spell if you ever get stuck with Broadside.

I've wiped out multiple pack mobs and never once got to use my "activated" combo point, which was the 2nd one because of Broadside.

[Seliathan 12]

15 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Echoing Reprimand becomes a literally useless covenent spell if you ever get stuck with Broadside.

I've wiped out multiple pack mobs and never once got to use my "activated" combo point, which was the 2nd one because of Broadside.

It's definitely a bit annoying whenever it happens, but at least it only happens when you have the strongest roll the bones buff 😄 As a large part of the benefit of Echoing Reprimand is its initial damage and the soulbind-related bonuses, it's not a big loss of DPS if you do not get to play around the Combo Point minigame.