Outlaw Rogue PvE

[Guest Linaii]

I disagree blood shard set bonus is op   not only does it proc like mad ,it also helps healers out some as outlaw the blood bonus does more damage than dispatch in most fights and does 4 to 5 in heals in a 3 healer raid group 

[Seliathan 12]

Hey Linaii,

I'm not quite sure what your message was in response to, but the Frost Shard Set also helps healers as the proc creates a defensive absorb shield everytime it procs. It actually heals more than the blood set, and because it is an absorb and not actual healing, there is no overhealing issue there either. :)

Both in terms of damage and survivability, Winds of Winter beats both other sets for Outlaw Rogue. 

[Guest Justkali]

Hi i have question (maybe little stupid one). How it is with off hand weapon is best choice dagger? or am i total dumbass trying to get one? i am gearin outlaw rogue right now and i dont know if i need sword/axe/mace and dagger or 2 swords/axes/maces .

[Seliathan 12]

On 10/5/2021 at 4:47 PM, Guest Justkali said:

Hi i have question (maybe little stupid one). How it is with off hand weapon is best choice dagger? or am i total dumbass trying to get one? i am gearin outlaw rogue right now and i dont know if i need sword/axe/mace and dagger or 2 swords/axes/maces .

Heyo Justkali. There's no such thing as a stupid question, so please dont hesitate to ask whenever something is unclear for you :)

Generally speaking, there's no major difference between offhands for Outlaw. Having a Dagger in your offhand will allow you to get slightly more Poison procs, so it is the "best" choice . The difference is very minor, however, and having a higher itemlevel sword or axe tends to be better than a lower itemlevel dagger (make sure to play the highest ilvl sword/axe/mace/fist in your main-hand of course ^^).

If there's every any doubt, I highly recommend simming yourself to figure out the best way to equip the different weapon choices you have available. As a general rule, if both off-hand choices are the same itemlevel, you'll want to play the faster one in your offhand. 

[Guest Justkali]

hi i want to ask how it is with covenant legendary for necrolord outlaw is it worth playin or is simply just better to play celerity and dont care about it?

[Seliathan 12]

1 hour ago, Guest Justkali said:

hi i want to ask how it is with covenant legendary for necrolord outlaw is it worth playin or is simply just better to play celerity and dont care about it?

Hey Justkali.

Sadly the legendary isn't all that great for raiding or Mythic+. While it is somewhat competitive in Mythic+ on trash pulls, it provides almost no benefit on single-target. As Outlaw is already using abilities every global cooldown, the opportunity cost for using the legendary is also fairly high. You can play it for a change of pace or if you want to have some fun throwing Bonespikes around like crazy, but from a pure performance PoV it gets outperformed by Celerity. 

In raid environments I would never recommend playing it, it's simply designed to be good on AoE where you get regular resets of the cooldown, and even then the 8% damage when Celerity procs and getting the lowered global cooldown from the Adrenaline Rush buff are worth more on a spec that is already GCD-capped in a lot of situations. 

[Guest Morleti]

Haste mastery vets are all that matters for outlaw crit is useless

[Wyr3d 1]

On 8/11/2021 at 10:39 AM, Seliathan said:

Hey Wyr3d.

Yeah, at this time, the secondary stat priorities are pretty much the same (which makes sense, since you mostly deal single-target damage and then flurry it with Blade Flurry). 

Keep in mind, however, that stat priorities are very dynamic and depend heavily on the gear you already have equipped, so you might have different priorities with your character. That is why we always recommend using raidbots.com to sim your own character to get the best possible information for your individual character, that might be very different than the generalized information we present in the guide.

Feel free to ask any questions you have on the topic of simming or stats for Outlaw 🙂

Hey there,

Yeah, this was in regard to keeping the information up-to-date for my addon, so a generic ideal works fine. That said, since you stated they are pretty much the same, it should be fine to revert the Raid, and Mythic+ build back to a single standard build without issue. 

[Guest jojodelyon]

Hi everyone, i have several question about my outlaw rogue. 

1) i have seen a lot of log with outlaw who didn't use anymore Slice and Dice . it is normal?

2) Shadowcore Oil or  Shaded Sharpening Stone ?

3) here it is my rogue if you have some remarks https://worldofwarcraft.com/fr-fr/character/eu/krasus/jojodelyon

I Am always at the end of the dps but i respect carefully the rotation

 

Sorry for my english... thanks for your answers/remarks

[Seliathan 12]

13 hours ago, Guest jojodelyon said:

Hi everyone, i have several question about my outlaw rogue. 

1) i have seen a lot of log with outlaw who didn't use anymore Slice and Dice . it is normal?

2) Shadowcore Oil or  Shaded Sharpening Stone ?

3) here it is my rogue if you have some remarks https://worldofwarcraft.com/fr-fr/character/eu/krasus/jojodelyon

I Am always at the end of the dps but i respect carefully the rotation

 

Sorry for my english... thanks for your answers/remarks

Hey jojodelyon!

Regarding your questions:
1) You still use and maintain Slice and and Dice. One of your Roll the Bones buffs also grants you Slice and Dice duration whenever you spend combo-points, however, so in a lot of fights you may not ever need to re-cast it yourself after the initial opener :)

2) Sharpening Stones are better at this point, although the difference between the two is in the single-digit DPS. Either are fine, really, it won't make a noticeable difference at all.

3) Sadly I don't really have the time to go through individual character analysis, but I can highly recommend the rogue discord Ravenholdt, as there are always plenty of helpful people on there that enjoy analyzing logs or characters :) You should definitely get used to playing Ghostly Strike instead of Quick Draw, however. Beyond that, your gear, covenant and legendary choice seem fine :)

If you need any more help, please let me know and I'll try to help ❤️

Regards,
Seliathan

[Guest Rogueman]

The threat is very outdated, I would recomment that you update BiS items from Dungeons.

[Guest Grafty]

This page hasnt even been updated with Raid trinkets lol Icy Veins is becoming the new Noxxic

[Seliathan 12]

21 hours ago, Guest Grafty said:

This page hasnt even been updated with Raid trinkets lol Icy Veins is becoming the new Noxxic

Hey Grafty.

This is on purpose, and I'll try to explain why.

BiS lists are frowned upon, because they often provide more misinformation than they are helpful, especially when it comes to raid items. There are a few reasons for that, but the main argument is that using Raidbots is always a better choice to decide on potential item upgrades.

BiS lists are generated with the highest item level achievable in mind (so any Mythic+ item would have to come from the Great Vault, which has over 70 different possible choices), while Raid Items that might be BiS at maximum ilvl, might not be a direct upgrade over what players already have (i.e. a Normal ilvl "BiS" item would not necessarily be better than a "worse" trinket on Heroic Raid itemlevel).

BiS items are also highly variable, and with Mythic+ Great Vault options available, many items that would be part of a Raid BiS list, would become obsolete IF the player in question had received a better item from the Mythic+ Great Vault. But if it's on the list, people might replace a better item. That's no good. 

As dungeons are repeatedly spammable, and you can upgrade the items with Valor to a very high item-level, we decided to include a dungeon BiS list for items to chase, especially for people who do not raid at all, but the same approach sadly cannot be applied to raids.

 

I hope that clears up the lack of BiS lists for raids, especially trinkets. The ultimate goal would be to get a ilvl 424 Manic Grieftorch from Mythic Broodkeeper Diurna and a 421 Controlled Current Technique from Mythic Kurog Grimtotem, if we're strictly looking at raids (we will include this information in the next update to the guide, with a disclaimer). But a 421 Whispering Incarnate Icon would be better than either of those trinkets on Heroic, and drops much earlier in the raid. Once we enter Mythic+ into all of this, it becomes even more of a headache, with Windscar Whetstone and Hunger of the Pack beating out some of the Heroic and Mythic options, and it would end up becoming a giant mess that doesn't really help or inform anybody. 

The item-level differences matter a lot, and as a result BiS lists are simply not a useful source of information on what gear to get. We recommend using the Top Gear and Droptimizer feature on Raidbots for that instead, as it will tailor the "best" gear upgrades to your specific character, choice of in-game race, talent build and already existing gear - and it will consider all the different item-level choices that are available to you, which a static BiS list never could.

[Guest Avengerx]

I'm a bit confused. On stat page you say vers and crit are best stats, on Gears page you say get anything with crit and mastery. I guess the latter is a typo?

[Guest Gouge?]

Why does this guide keep talking about Gouge when it's not specced?

[Seliathan 12]

20 hours ago, Guest Gouge? said:

Why does this guide keep talking about Gouge when it's not specced?

Because you can easily pick it up, if you see value in using it. One of the benefits of the new talent tree is that it allows us to pick and choose valuable utility, if we consider it to be valuable, by sacrificing a single point somewhere else. In some dungeons or even raid encounters, Gouge might be useful, so you can just swap out a point and add it to your build. As a utility talent it obviously does not offer any DPS, so for the majority of situations where it might not be useful, it is not recommended to talent into it.

 

On 1/14/2023 at 11:58 PM, Guest Avengerx said:

I'm a bit confused. On stat page you say vers and crit are best stats, on Gears page you say get anything with crit and mastery. I guess the latter is a typo?

Yes, that is a typo. Sorry for the confusion it caused. 😞 Will be fixed asap. 

[Guest Wowgeek]

This says it was updated yesterday so I feel that it's reasonable to ask this, why is there no build for the Rogue tree?  All the other guides I've looked at for other classes have both the class tree build and the specialization build.

[Natalia 20]

2 hours ago, Guest Wowgeek said:

This says it was updated yesterday so I feel that it's reasonable to ask this, why is there no build for the Rogue tree?  All the other guides I've looked at for other classes have both the class tree build and the specialization build.

Hi! Thank you for reporting this. I have flagged it to the writer to look into it and fix the tree.

[Seliathan 12]

8 hours ago, Guest Wowgeek said:

This says it was updated yesterday so I feel that it's reasonable to ask this, why is there no build for the Rogue tree?  All the other guides I've looked at for other classes have both the class tree build and the specialization build.

Heyo. Sadly the class tree itself doesn't currently show on the website itself, but if you click the "Open in Calculator" it contains both the class and spec tree. It'll be fixed on the website soon as well. Sorry for the troubles!

[Guest Hicksey]

The kir import string doesn't include kir?  Here's the string in the guide: 

• BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgERSAkkEJSSCkEJRikkkkECAAAAAAQUSCSJJgEaBAAAA

[Guest Hicksey]

The kir import string is wrong, it doesn't actually have kir talented.  I think another import string was put in there by mistake.  Here's the part I'm talking about:

 

This is the import code for the suggested KiR single-target build:

• BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgERSAkkEJSSCkEJRikkkkECAAAAAAQUSCSJJgEaBAAAA

[Seliathan 12]

On 1/28/2023 at 10:54 PM, Guest Hicksey said:

The kir import string is wrong, it doesn't actually have kir talented.  I think another import string was put in there by mistake.  Here's the part I'm talking about:

 

This is the import code for the suggested KiR single-target build:

• BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgERSAkkEJSSCkEJRikkkkECAAAAAAQUSCSJJgEaBAAAA

Heyo Hicksey!

Thanks for reporting this. It seems to have been caused by a caching issue, as everything was working as intended on my end, but we redeployed just to make sure that it updated correctly. If you are still having issues, we'd appreciate if you could let us know. Until then, this is the correct Import for KIR: BQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgEkEkkkkkk0SECBSISIJJJCAAAAAAQUSCJlkASoFAAA

Sorry for any confusion this may have caused!

[Guest Avengerx]

Helloes!

I have a feeling the RtB usage has a few mistakes aswell. Current one states that you should keep the buff if: 

• you have  Skull and Crossbones as a single buff OR
• you have 2 buffs and one of them is  Grand Melee (unless the other is Skull and Crossbones) OR
• you have 3 or more buffs.

1st and 3rd points are fine I think, but shouldn't 2nd one state that don't reroll if one of the buffs is Skull and Crossbones? Or technically always reroll the 2 lowest ones, Grand Melee and Buried Treasure?

[Guest Hicksey]

Yeah that works!  Most other guides have the tree showing for each build instead of the import strings, would be a little more helpful to do that but the string does work.

[FeelsandNeeds 3]

Hello,

Please do not take this the wrong way but hopefully as a constructive criticisms if anything. I just find it confusing the M+ tips page-(edit) mentions the importance of Gouge on 3 paragraphs but yet the talent tree does not have it. It seems it focuses on the stealth and all its cool abilities with Shadow Dance yet it does not have Count the Odds picked up in the spec tree.

Am I missing the big picture here? 

Keep up the great work. I do appreciate it. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by FeelsandNeeds