wow Infamous PvP Scaling Seems to Be Gone in the Shadowlands Pre-Patch

[Stan 5,240]

Rextroy is back with a new video, but this time, it's not about one-shots! It appears PvP scaling, as we knew it in Battle for Azeroth, has been removed in the Shadowlands pre-patch!

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After testing around it appears that the numbers shown on both players screen are the same! Trinkets (and I assume most azerite effects) are even being nerfed if you are in lower gear, so this could truely be the start of an expansion with people using gear!

Here is the latest video which shows that PvP scaling seems to be gone!

[BobTheHuman 72]

Great news! Downside is that the Naked Paladin Dropping Frog Nukes on Orgrimmar era has come to an end... we'll see.

[Mugendai 48]

4 minutes ago, BobTheHuman said:

Great news! Downside is that the Naked Paladin Dropping Frog Nukes on Orgrimmar era has come to an end... we'll see.

Great news in a way that it's not broken anymore, but bad news as it means pvp will be dictated by gear and not skill

Edited October 14, 2020 by Mugendai

[Arcling 898]

9 minutes ago, Mugendai said:

Great news in a way that it's not broken anymore, but bad news as it means pvp will be dictated by gear and not skill

Especially with all these Covenants and Conduits, it's hard to expect a balanced fight.

[Skayan 52]

1 hour ago, BobTheHuman said:

Great news! Downside is that the Naked Paladin Dropping Frog Nukes on Orgrimmar era has come to an end... we'll see.

No king rules forever...

[BobTheHuman 72]

2 hours ago, Mugendai said:

Great news in a way that it's not broken anymore, but bad news as it means pvp will be dictated by gear and not skill

I'm fine with that, but whatever balance solutions they come up with in the future I hope PvP Scaling is never even considered again.

[Senou 40]

2 hours ago, Arcling said:

Especially with all these Covenants and Conduits, it's hard to expect a balanced fight.

I think that's totally fine. Imagine you're a high ranked gladiator or a mythic raider and a fresh maxed alt can dominate you. When the gear is equal its still a matter of skill and choice.

[Mugendai 48]

2 minutes ago, Senou said:

Imagine you're a high ranked gladiator or a mythic raider and a fresh maxed alt can dominate you

That's supposed to be the point of pvp, being equally strong, but only skill matters. If he dominates you, it means he's better and it's normal he wins

Edited October 14, 2020 by Mugendai

[Arcling 898]

10 minutes ago, Senou said:

I think that's totally fine. Imagine you're a high ranked gladiator or a mythic raider and a fresh maxed alt can dominate you. When the gear is equal its still a matter of skill and choice.

How is that skill, if someone kills without effort due to having farmed higher ilvl, while other person can do nothing? That's the point of pvp, someone with better skill should win, and only that. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Arcling

[Emberstormx 1]

If you want skill to be the only determining factor play a battle royale or COD. This is an RPG, the entire premise of the game is to consistently and to continue to progress your characters power. If you don't like someone in better gear having an advantage put in the work to get better gear just like he had to. It's fair because everyone starts at the same place. That would be like saying in pve whoever has the best rotation and mechanics should do the most dps no matter what. No. Again RPG, remove the need to have gear to do better, doing things stops being relevant, and as soon as it does, people stop doing things. The whole reason half the pvpers quit in the first place was the gear removal. As soon as tangible rewards go away, content loses meaning in an RPG.

[Rahim 2]

I watched some of Rextroy videos, actualy I'm a victim in one them? In most cases these result are not simply comes from pvp scaling(however has a big role in them): buffs gained in high ilvl, even azerite armor proc, which are remain active after you change gear is also part of the problem. And of course the toads...?

[Harvey 60]

Good riddance! And... we all know who we have to thank for that~ (wink wink) ?

[Arcling 898]

1 hour ago, Emberstormx said:

If you want skill to be the only determining factor play a battle royale or COD. This is an RPG, the entire premise of the game is to consistently and to continue to progress your characters power. 

Fair enough, but gear is still relevant and should be in PvE, so there is your power gain. That's where the challenge comes, by beating more powerful bosses on different difficulties, so gear is required. PvP as separate activity should be based on skill. If you want to crush low geared noobs then... You don't want to play actual PvP, you just want to crush noobs. 

[Grumar 188]

5 hours ago, Mugendai said:

Great news in a way that it's not broken anymore, but bad news as it means pvp will be dictated by gear and not skill

so you mean like an RPG? if there is nothing to work towards (gear) why would anyone do it? answer is they won't, hence why tons of people just stopped pvp'ing in bfa.

[Skayan 52]

2 hours ago, Emberstormx said:

If you want skill to be the only determining factor play a battle royale or COD. This is an RPG, the entire premise of the game is to consistently and to continue to progress your characters power. If you don't like someone in better gear having an advantage put in the work to get better gear just like he had to. It's fair because everyone starts at the same place. That would be like saying in pve whoever has the best rotation and mechanics should do the most dps no matter what. No. Again RPG, remove the need to have gear to do better, doing things stops being relevant, and as soon as it does, people stop doing things. The whole reason half the pvpers quit in the first place was the gear removal. As soon as tangible rewards go away, content loses meaning in an RPG.

Couldn't agree more. PvP scaling was created to make snowflakes feel better and give them a chance to defend themselves. The truth is when someone beats you then that person either plays stronger spec or is better at the game than you. Being better at the game means doing more challenging content in case someone didn't know. Hating someone because that person has higher ilvl is just so silly. You are free to do PvP only but expect players that do both PvE and PvP to be better because this is more rewarding lol.

But yeah, you are also free to tell Blizzard how you would like PvP to work. From few comments here i can tell some people want to play PvP on Trial Characters, because "tHEy ArE eQUaL iN pOWer", same ilvl, no borrowed powers, beside talents there's nothing to choose to make your character stronger etc. :)

[Arcling 898]

2 hours ago, Grumar said:

so you mean like an RPG? if there is nothing to work towards (gear) why would anyone do it? answer is they won't, hence why tons of people just stopped pvp'ing in bfa.

How does gear define "RPG"? There is no role playing involved, so that argument falls flat. Many games have some sort of items, yet they aren't considered RPGs, since this is not what defines that genre. Anyway, most people usually do it for rewards, that includes cosmetics, titles etc. Gear will become obsolete, while other rewards remain, this is often the main reason people are doing it. If you want to be competitive, play better, that's fair (balance issues aside, and these are going to be even worse with gear and covenants, and so on). As if farming currency for gear was considered as something that requires "skill".

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Arcling

[Emberstormx 1]

1 hour ago, Arcling said:

Fair enough, but gear is still relevant and should be in PvE, so there is your power gain. That's where the challenge comes, by beating more powerful bosses on different difficulties, so gear is required. PvP as separate activity should be based on skill. If you want to crush low geared noobs then... You don't want to play actual PvP, you just want to crush noobs. 

Except it's not geared people trying to crush noobs. It's noobs queing into a setting where they can potentially be crushed. And when you get crushed, you want to end up being the one crushing, and don't like being crushed, so what do you do? You get more gear so you can be that guy and it gives you something to work for. And when you are both geared and you still lose, you know he's just better or playing a better spec. If you want to go into an arena at 380 ilvl, against people who are potentially 480, that's a choice you make. There's other ways to get gear that don't put you in that situation. And why should the guy who has put WAY more effort into the game than you not be rewarded for it by being stronger? Again RPG. Literally you can just look at the fact that when they removed pvp vendors, and introduced scaling half the people quit, including myself, and went to do pve. Why? Cause i'm playing to get stronger, I want my character to be strong. That's why I play an MMORPG. To have a strong end game character. If I want to boost a 120 and be as strong as someone who's 480 who's played 10 times more i'd play a BR. 

[Arcling 898]

6 minutes ago, Emberstormx said:

Again RPG. Literally you can just look at the fact that when they removed pvp vendors, and introduced scaling half the people quit, including myself, and went to do pve. Why? Cause i'm playing to get stronger, I want my character to be strong. That's why I play an MMORPG. To have a strong end game character. If I want to boost a 120 and be as strong as someone who's 480 who's played 10 times more i'd play a BR. 

Gear is not the main defining trait of RPG, read my post above. You do get stronger, in PvE. But in specific competitive environment, which is more of a side activity (as PvE has been always the main activity in this game), it's better to equalize things and then work on balance from there. Current systems will make that impossible.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Arcling

[Sandrock87 0]

Basically you're saying you want gear to matter so you can get good gear from pve mythic content to then make up for your lack of skill in pvp. 

 

There are more people completing mythic raids than there are gladiators. 

If there is no pvp scaling then they should make all pve gear suck at pvp and the other way around. This way nobody can skip content requiring completely different skills and get ahead. 

 

[Dhrias 0]

Golden timnes of PvP were from Wotlk to MoP where gear mattered ALOT and people played the *filtered* out of it. Now battleground ques and even arena ques are dead AF, what a strange coincedence...

[Gortan 38]

I'm with the "gear matters" bunch. It's more immersive this way because it's just like real life. Say your opponent is wearing a suit of armour and a sword while you have jeans, flannel shirt and a fork. What are your chances of winning?

Also, it's not like skill is completely out of the picture. In the example above, you still can win. You'll just need a lot more skill and effort than your opponent. So yeah, better gear should give you better odds at winning.

7 hours ago, Sandrock87 said:

Basically you're saying you want gear to matter so you can get good gear from pve mythic content to then make up for your lack of skill in pvp. 

 

There are more people completing mythic raids than there are gladiators. 

If there is no pvp scaling then they should make all pve gear suck at pvp and the other way around. This way nobody can skip content requiring completely different skills and get ahead. 

 

Didn't they say they're bringing PVP stat back (resilience/PVP power/something new)? Or was it just the vendors?

[Grumar 188]

18 hours ago, Arcling said:

How does gear define "RPG"? There is no role playing involved, so that argument falls flat. Many games have some sort of items, yet they aren't considered RPGs, since this is not what defines that genre. Anyway, most people usually do it for rewards, that includes cosmetics, titles etc. Gear will become obsolete, while other rewards remain, this is often the main reason people are doing it. If you want to be competitive, play better, that's fair (balance issues aside, and these are going to be even worse with gear and covenants, and so on). As if farming currency for gear was considered as something that requires "skill".

 

that's why so many people pvp'd in BfA right? and gear is the very definition of an MMORPG, i dare you to name one with out gear as it's main progression system AND that's popular. a lot of people don't care about these "forever" awards and just want their character to be good and progressing for the 2 years an expansion is out and then will start again, if people weren't willing to do this MMOs would have never have become a thing.

No side activity has ever been balanced either, i can level up battle pets, i can use shredder to gather for professions faster, I can get patterns, plans, etc that others don't have, etc NOTHING has ever been balanced cause if it were it would be boring

Edited October 15, 2020 by Grumar