Mythic+ DPS Tier List

[Guest War Elder]

Due to its under representation curious how would one judge the aoe dps of them. I'm pulling 30k+ on some packs, 40k on others.

[Petko 7]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:03 PM, Guest War Elder said:

So this list, like many, is heavily influenced by representation. While there is some validity in that, it's only part of the equation as it misrepresents the potential that other classes have. With that consideration this tier list SHOULD speak more to how classes perform and interact with each other and dungeon mechanics. Much of the community will read/glance at this and absorb it incorrectly which will lead to a poor community perception to the ones listed lower in your tiers. While my suggestion is different from your approach it would correctly provide a proper tier list as yours is literally just a population tier.

Yes I play one of the lower listed specs (feral), but I don't have any issues running dungeons with my group. Where I do find issues is running with pugs as I normally carry the group since the pugs are filled with supposed "meta" specs but the players perform subpar. When creating a tier list you should be extremely careful as it could only further cultivate the wrong community perception which then populates WoW with many of the same classes with subpar performance. Imagine if people talked up other specs lower on your list. People would be more aware of different interactions with specs and mechanics which could sway your tier list in a different direction.

Hey War Elder,

Thank you for expressing interest in our Tier Lists. The Tier Lists are designed not only by my extensive Mythic+ knowledge and background, but also by empirical evidence by both myself and the class guide writers, who are among one of the best in the industry. By no means if you play a class which is considered "subpar" or down in the rankings, means you will perform poorly, no that is not the case. What you refer to is "player over the class" which I completely vote YES for. In every MMORPG, there will be classes that perform better than others, hence why we have the term "meta" . If an equally skilled Fire Mage competes with an equally skilled Feral Druid, at the end of the dungeon, Fire Mage will have more overall output, then the feral, and in those Tier Lists, we explain why that is the case.
I hope that clears the air around it, and for the future (9.1 soon) , we can explain more on why a specific spec is above others.

Regards,
Petko  

[Guest 9.1 TIER LIST WHEN?]

9.1 TIER LIST WHEN? 

[Guest Demolock copium user]

Good tier list sir, thanks for the work you put in!

[Guest Grovi]

Good job bro! ty! 💪

[mahlstrom 0]

Solid list, backed by experience and sound logic. Petko continues to provide relevant content to help push the community forward.  

[Guest humlhum]

not even remotly accurate, it's impossible to do a tier liste 2 weeks before the patch even comes out with beta knowledge even if we can have a rough idea of what is going to be good and what is going to be bad.

As a warlock player when I see wrong information like : Affliction Warlock's single-target DPS is among the strongest in the game

when it's one of the worst spec in single target in 9.1

And to say : Its sustained-Cleave and AoE damage from  Vile Taint and  Malefic Rapture are also quite deadly.

when malefict rapture got a insane nerf and vile taint wont be played in 9.1 because of the changes to saw of seed. 

 while it remains one of the strongest specializations for raiding

It's litterally the worst of the 3 spec next patch, demo being far better in single target and destro in cleave scenario. I can't speak much for other classes since my knowledge is not as deep but I can't trust the rest of what is said after seeing this.

[Guest Wobblucy]

Your take on Destro lock is wrong, the shadowburn buffs alone make it significantly better then you are suggesting here. 

Pair that with the synergy between first strike and the Dom shard increasing damage on pull and you have a spec that opens strong on a pack and finishes even stronger. 

Havoc'd shadowburns when mobs are dying off in a pack is effectively 7+ chaos bolts worth of damage funneled into a priority mob in the tail end of a pack. 

[Guest Leaf]

Even just looking at the warlock commentary, I can say with confidence that this list is evidence of why no one takes Icy Veins seriously.

The Aff commentary is passable- it at least tracked what all of the changes were, if not drawing correct conclusions about them. But placement in A-tier is laughable. Aff will do fantastic trash damage. But Aff now has possibly the worst ST damage in the game. So while it might be A tier for Fort weeks, it's generous even giving it C-tier for Tyrannical weeks.

As for Destro and Demo, you didn't even track the important changes. You mentioned Soul Strike, calling it a "core damaging ability" when literally no one ever plays, nor will anyone ever play it even with its buff. And yet you completely failed to mention the buff to From the Shadows, wherein FtS now increases the damage of Tyrant's Demonfire damage. On average, it makes FtS have a very similar single target damage profile as playing Summon Vilefiend, while providing a significantly better AoE profile. It is a massive buff to Demo in M+. Enough to push it higher than B-tier? Maybe not. But even if doesn't change its placement at all, it is still a significant buff worth mentioning.

As for Destro... No changes? 10% Chaos Bolt buff? Potentially the Shadowburn buff? I'm not sure if Shadowburn will be played over Reverse Entropy, but it very well could, and is very relevant if it is.

[Petko 7]

3 hours ago, Guest humlhum said:

not even remotly accurate, it's impossible to do a tier liste 2 weeks before the patch even comes out with beta knowledge even if we can have a rough idea of what is going to be good and what is going to be bad.

As a warlock player when I see wrong information like : Affliction Warlock's single-target DPS is among the strongest in the game

when it's one of the worst spec in single target in 9.1

And to say : Its sustained-Cleave and AoE damage from  Vile Taint and  Malefic Rapture are also quite deadly.

when malefict rapture got a insane nerf and vile taint wont be played in 9.1 because of the changes to saw of seed. 

 while it remains one of the strongest specializations for raiding

It's litterally the worst of the 3 spec next patch, demo being far better in single target and destro in cleave scenario. I can't speak much for other classes since my knowledge is not as deep but I can't trust the rest of what is said after seeing this.

  Hey humlhum , thank you for taking an interest in our Tier List.

This tier list is purely a subjective opinion (mostly mine) combined with information from top theorycrafters from each representative, so while we are still 9 days away from 9.1, we have a pretty good understanding of what's potentially good and what is bad.
This tier list is by far no final hence why there is a disclaimer on it and it will continue to evolve through the 9.1 PTR builds

Of course the nerfs to Malefic Rapture are big, but don't forget that this is one of our Shard Spenders and is a great build to play. Seed build can be potentially good, as of now saying, we don't know for certain what would be considered the "better" build, but as patches evolve we will find out.

I disagree on being the worst of the 3 specs in the next patch but again, this is my opinion, I think Affliction Warlock will excel going forward Season 2 of Shadowlands. Yes they might not have THE BEST single-target in the game, but is quite competitive, they also excel in spread-cleave damage, where Both Demonology and Destruction lack. Yes Destro has a great 2-target cleave, but once you add a few more targets that are running, things are different.

By far I am not an expert on all DPS classes and I will reflect back on the information presented above and will strive to perfect it on the next build!

Thank you for your time .

[Petko 7]

2 hours ago, Guest Leaf said:

Even just looking at the warlock commentary, I can say with confidence that this list is evidence of why no one takes Icy Veins seriously.

The Aff commentary is passable- it at least tracked what all of the changes were, if not drawing correct conclusions about them. But placement in A-tier is laughable. Aff will do fantastic trash damage. But Aff now has possibly the worst ST damage in the game. So while it might be A tier for Fort weeks, it's generous even giving it C-tier for Tyrannical weeks.

As for Destro and Demo, you didn't even track the important changes. You mentioned Soul Strike, calling it a "core damaging ability" when literally no one ever plays, nor will anyone ever play it even with its buff. And yet you completely failed to mention the buff to From the Shadows, wherein FtS now increases the damage of Tyrant's Demonfire damage. On average, it makes FtS have a very similar single target damage profile as playing Summon Vilefiend, while providing a significantly better AoE profile. It is a massive buff to Demo in M+. Enough to push it higher than B-tier? Maybe not. But even if doesn't change its placement at all, it is still a significant buff worth mentioning.

As for Destro... No changes? 10% Chaos Bolt buff? Potentially the Shadowburn buff? I'm not sure if Shadowburn will be played over Reverse Entropy, but it very well could, and is very relevant if it is.

  Hey Leaf!

Thank you for taking an interest in our DPS tier-list

First I would like to start by saying that the placement on the tier-list is purely subjective and can vary depending on opinions, this is my opinion, not only from testing but also from talking to one of the best theorycrafters the game can offer.
Also by far I do not consider myself all DPS class/specs expert, so if there was inaccurate information, I will further try to perfect going forward prior to the release of Season 2!

I agree, Affliction Warlock has great burst, not only on AoE scenarios (4+) but also on spread cleave damage AND single-target damage, despite the nerfs. Yes they might not be the best anymore, but they are quite competitive in terms of damage. This tier-list considers both affixes in play Tyrannical and Fortified so that's a heads-up.

I will document and adjust the Demonology part going forward to the next Build and mention all the changes so I can make as accurate as possible to the people.

Chaos Bolt changes should have definitely been documented, again this is not the final version of 9.1 Tier-list but rather preliminary and is likely to be changed/adjusted going forward to the next builds. So I will be definitely adding that one!

Once again, 
Thank you for your input  

[Guest Shaman]

Thanks a bunch for this, for sure helped me pick my class going into the next patch!

[Guest Rob]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:56 AM, Guest Kloud said:

what is blizzard doing all 3 warlock spec in C tier? What?

Blizzard does not create these tier lists, and it does not reflect the reality.

[Dhaheri 1]

Wonderful 9.1 tier list going on the patch notes and ptr I believe this is one of the best tier list to look at prior to the patch's release well done petko, and nothing short of amazing can't wait for updates on this so I can become a meta picker one more time 

[Guest Lbc]

Might wanna fact-check your destro write up. CB was buffed again (well, actually, a SL beta nerf reversion - the same as the rest). Actually, a lot of your lock stuff is wrong.

Wilfred's is only used with Rein of Chaos - which is super RNG and really is only somewhat useful for fort weeks. I'd hope that there's not a single soul, out there, that plays Wilfred's on tyrannical. lol. It's far from BiS. You'd go cinders. And since the m+ weenies aren't gonna get to skip out of tyrannical weeks this tier, that gains more value than in 9.0/9.0.5. The fire dmg debuff is also havoc-able so that's even better for two-target cleave spam.

 

Also, the new night fae leggo is pretty stronk for aff and destro on fort weeks.

 

Do you guys play the specs that you write guides for? lol. Legit question.

[Guest Nifl]

Sadly if you use or believe in this chart you are b tier. Well I do appreciate the hard work that went into this there's a lot of information that's wrong. But that's just I icey veins for you. 

[Guest HIPPO]

Amazing work Petko ,as always !!! 

[Guest Nejtchurr]

Well done mate. To bad balance is now only b-tier pepeHands

[Guest Tamir]

Pretty accurate for mid-high keys!

gonna come down to tuning, but accurate for the most part, we'll have to wait and see tuning in 9.1

as long as things wont change, its pretty much gonna say as represented.

[Guest Tamir]

pretty accurate i'd say!

[Gochuhunter 0]

Thank you for taking the time to put a guide. As a new player myself it is interesting to see takes from the top end of the players and how they see each role fitting into M+. 

You mentioned the Sylvannas bow in the next tier, do you think that will be enough to push it into A+ if not S tier, or do you think Hunter's being capped will hold them from getting into S tier. As a hunter main it is looking quite sad for us in the future. 

[Guest Flap]

This tier-list isn't up to date, the outlaw legendary was killed a few patchs ago, while Outlaw is still good, its just the same as S1, so not rank 1 at all. 

[Guest Actual rogue player]

I think your list is lacking fundamental knowledge about the rogue class.

Outlaw: Deathspike is dead for all content, stop talking about it.
Assassination: Has no special secondary stat scaling, stop trying to make it a thing, it will be average in m+ just like it is now.
Subtlety: Got a huge 25% aoe buff going into 9.1, yet you say "no changes". It got a 10% buff to ST, yet again "no changes". You talk about Akaari and Deeper daggers like they are broken, something they havent been since 9.0 beta. I don't understand how you can possibly pretend to spend time on this list when you can't even fact check stuff that's 10 months old or keep up to date with simple PTR updates.

TLDR: List is bad for multiple reasons, the rogue evaluation is wrong everywhere and I don't know who you talked to about rogue, but you should check your sources.

[Guest Lmao tier list]

Well you obviously did less than 0 research about rogue because everything you said is literal misinformation LOL. 

[Brutalnia 0]

Good guide once again a lot of information overall pretty good