Legendary gem procs with 2-set bonus/Mixture build questions

[doelling 0]

First off, here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/azjolnerub/Anaxagora/advanced

 

Now, I just got my legendary gem yesterday and I've heard different things about how procs from that change your rotation with the T16 2-set bonus. Some people say it shouldn't change your rotation at all, while others say that after casting FFB, if Tempus Repit is up, you should cast FB, even if you have a FoF proc. Clarification on this would be much appreciated.

 

Also, I was reading Akraen's frost mage guide (https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/3678-akraens-comprehensive-guide-to-54-frost-pve-advanced/) and was particularly interested in pushing my mage towards the mixture build (although, I think I'm mostly there already). I used custom weights in AMR and found that while I CAN reach the 14242 haste breakpoint, it involves giving up at least 3 socket bonuses. I'm not really sure how to proceed, but I'd appreciate any help with that, as my guild is trying to down 25 man Garrosh, and I'd like to contribute as much dps as possible.

 

P.S. Is there a guide anywhere on how to get into theorycrafting? I've always found it fascinating, and I have a mind for math, so I'd like to give it a try.

[durrtygoodz 60]

If it's theory crafting discussion you're interested I recommend you get on IRC and come chat with us! We have a community on #mmoc-mages and there's talk happening all the time there. 

 

For your gear atm I'd probably just stick to getting 12684 haste > mastery until gear improves. Once you get closer to 570 you have far more options available as there are more secondary stats to play with.

 

How you use 2piece with haste procs basically comes down to your mastery. There does come a time where frostbolt+icicle with a haste proc active is better single target use of the 2 set than an icelance. Usually though the prio for the 2 set proc is BF>FoF>Frostbolt so FoF camping at 1 charge is very effective.

 

Here's something that a poster on MMO-C made that you will probably find interesting. I've copied and pasted the info he wrote too:

 

 

If you're above the appropriate line you should FrB, otherwise IL.

Assumes that haste and mastery are raid buffed. The graphs are with 22% crit in mind (two trinket procs will place you well above 30%).

Basically, if you're well geared (can reach ~80% mastery with 50% haste), then when meta procs you should use FrB on single target fights.

On cleave fights you need to be at over 100% mastery with int procs, or 110% without for FrB to be better. Infeasible for most people. So in this cases still use ILs over FrB.

 

Edited April 2, 2014 by durrtygoodz

[doelling 0]

Ok, I was figuring that I would have to gear more to be able to effectively play using the higher haste cap.

 

And those graphs are really interesting. I would not have thought that the thresholds would be that high for FrB to overtake IL with the 2 piece bonus. Guess I can get rid of my Weakauras icon for Tempus Repit then haha

 

And I'll definitely hop in the IRC chat too!

[durrtygoodz 60]

Well I wouldn't get rid of the meta gem aura. It's still relevant to know when you have a proc since it affects bomb snapshotting.

[doelling 0]

Ahhh, true

[doelling 0]

That brings up another question then. When should I snapshot my bomb? Whenever I get a trinket proc? Both trinkets proc? Both and the meta? I have auras for both trinkets and meta proc set up right now (along with one for time remaining on Invoker's Energy, but that's irrelevant for this).

[destri 1]

Personally, I only actively snapshot on meta procs.  Better to have that massive haste buff than an extra 10k or so sp.  I find if you try to snapshot every buff you get, you spend an awful lot of time casting your bomb.

[durrtygoodz 60]

Personally, I only actively snapshot on meta procs.  Better to have that massive haste buff than an extra 10k or so sp.  

 

574 PBoI proc gives me an extra 50% intellect. It's pretty major.

I find if you try to snapshot every buff you get, you spend an awful lot of time casting your bomb.

 

I'm not very good at explaining technical stuff but basically.. If the damage you gain from snapshotting a bomb with a proc, is greater than the damage you're "losing" by overwriting a weaker bomb, and it's giving you better damage for your gcd than frostbolt, then it was worth it. I think that's the right way to write it anyway.

[Sikkz 27]

Personally, I only actively snapshot on meta procs.  Better to have that massive haste buff than an extra 10k or so sp.  I find if you try to snapshot every buff you get, you spend an awful lot of time casting your bomb.

 

I understand where you are coming from, because I used to share similar beliefs.   I always thought snapshotting was such a gray area with poorly defined boundaries and awkward rotation changes.  To me, it didn't feel right to snapshot...it was uncomfortable and weird.  

 

That was, until I ran the numbers myself out of curiosity.

 

And then I ran them 30 more times, because the damage significance was large enough to the point that I knew there had to be some kind of mistake.

 

I'm sure you can see where this is going.

 

IMO: The beauty of this game is that you can play however you want to.  Snapshot or not, it's your mage, do what you enjoy. However, if you enjoy putting out the maximum damage your character is capable of, then you must learn to snapshot properly, no questions asked.

 

"Full damage potential" and "Not snapshotting" can't exist in the same sentence. 

 

Hinthinthint: There's some very nice and aesthetically pleasing flowcharts, graphs, and explanations that exist in the form of stickies at the top of this forum.  They are a great place to start.

 

And, using them makes Akraen happy.

 

Very happy.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Scottylol

[Akraen 230]

Durrty often outperforms me, so you can take his words to the bank.

 

It's not a DPS increase, but I'd break the socket bonuses anyway for comfort.

[destri 1]

574 PBoI proc gives me an extra 50% intellect. It's pretty major.

 

I'm not very good at explaining technical stuff but basically.. If the damage you gain from snapshotting a bomb with a proc, is greater than the damage you're "losing" by overwriting a weaker bomb, and it's giving you better damage for your gcd than frostbolt, then it was worth it. I think that's the right way to write it anyway.

 

I'm a mastery stacking frost mage.. Not too sure how those are looked upon in these parts.  Anyways, Icicle tends to be my highest damage at the end of a raid.  Frostbolts are my bread and butter.

[Akraen 230]

Doesn't really matter, Destri. No amount of mastery available in-game will ever get Frostbolt+Icicle DPET to exceed that of a snapshotted LB, even if that snapshot is just your meta gem's haste.