reality check for SV

[shango02 0]

Hi.

 

I've been gearing up as a Survival hunter, and am looking for a bit of a reality check.

 

Here’s my character: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/mug%27thol/achtung

 

My gear is by no means great, and I have a number of <528 ilevel items which I'm not bothering to enchant until I can replace them with 553. My guild is helping me gear up, but while I do so, I'm concerned about my DPS numbers being on par with my gear level. Here's my concern:

 

I feel like I've gotten the rotation pretty well under my fingers. Serpent Sting has near 100% uptime (aside from heavy movement phases, even then only falling off for a few seconds at most), same with Black Arrow (delaying the cooldown a few seconds due to Assurance). I'm using Explosive Shot on cooldown at every opportunity, even going so far as to have a stopcasting macro for LnL procs while I’m casting Cobra shot. I’m using all cooldowns at every opportunity (including Synapse Springs), and I have a 553 weapon. I can find nothing significantly wrong with my rotation or playing of the character.

 

That said, I’m only pulling 110k dps on a target dummy and around 120-130k in 10man SoO. This seems really low for ~524 ilevel.

I don’t have any logs to show, I’m not looking for specific tuning tips, this is more of a broad issue. Does ~30 ilevels really improve dps by >100k? Are the T16 set bonuses that good? Will filling out proper gems/enchants do the trick? Or does it sound like I’m not as adept at the rotation as I think? Is this typical for Survival hunters at this gear level?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.

[Orthios 271]

Tier bonuses are a must have, especially the 4 piece. Even the 2 piece helps out a lot with the extra rapid fires. Around 120k seems about right for 524 ilvl. To give a bit f perspective, I average 170-180k at 540 with a 548 weapon, 2 piece, harromms, and no AoC. If I were to get the 4 piece and AoC (any ilvl) my dps would likely increase by around 20k. Also, target dummies aren't the best measure of dps, since you are missing a lot of the buffs that a raid provides (10% atk power, 10% auto attack speed, 5% crit, 5% stats, 3k mastery are the ones we need).

[Kattii 40]

Does 30 ilvls really improve your dps by > 100k? Yes absolutely gear and itemization make a big difference on numbers. Especially when you consider some of your pieces are from last tier 

 

Are the T16 set bonuses that good? Yes, You WANT your 4pc for the crazy procs you can get with lock and load. I know I've counted up to 14 l&l procs before. It's a crazy dps boost.

 

Willing filling out proper gems/enchants do the trick? This will also help your numbers. I understand that if you are replacing gear at a consistent rate and gem/enchant it every time it can feel like a waste of gold. I would at least consider enchanting the raid finder Siege pieces. Also, you are currently well over hit cap so you can replace some of those agi/hit gems.

 

Does it sound like I'm not as adept at the rotation as I think? You've got the rotation down. I would just suggest in a raid environment to take Glyph of Animal Bond and to try out Thrill of the Hunt or Fervor for the add heavy/aoe bosses. 

[Fouton 266]

I believe 100-120k or so was normal for 520 ilvl, based on my hunter's DPS back in ToT with that ilvl. Tier 16 bonuses might increase that a bit more, since they're amazing, but I think your damage is reflecting your gear pretty well.

[shango02 0]

Thanks for all the feedback. Definitely going to regem and enchant the SoO gear I have. I've been pulling closer to 140k now, but it's good to know that's on par with my gear. 

 

One other quick question... as far as Focus capping versus not casting Cobra Shot:

 

Essentially, I find myself in situations where casting Cobra Shot will end up focus capping me, but casting Arcane shot will put me too low on focus to cast Explosive Shot and Glaive Toss or any other focus-using ability back-to-back. In that situation, is it always correct to simply cast Cobra shot and not worry about a half second or second of focus capping? It seems like doing nothing while waiting on a 2 second or less cooldown would be a DPS loss, but guides I have read say never cap on Focus. 

[Orthios 271]

We gain roughly 20 focus per cast of cobra shot, so if you're in danger of focus capping, then you have plenty if focus to cast arcane shot and then explosive shot or glaives

[shango02 0]

Orthios:

 

The situation I'm finding myself in is when I have around 70 Focus, and two abilities coming off cooldown roughly at the same time. Let's say, for example, I'm at 70 focus with 1.8 seconds left on the cooldown of ES, and 2.3 seconds left on the cooldown of Black Arrow. If I:

 

A. Arcane Shot down to 40 focus, I then use 25 for ES, and am probably at around 20 focus now (due to passive focus generation) and below the amount I need to then cast Black Arrow.

 

B. Cast Cobra Shot, I will probably focus cap due to passive focus generation, but will be able to cast ES and then Black Arrow immediately.

 

C. Simply do nothing until the ES cooldown and have enough focus to cast both immediately.

 

A and B seem like they are better for DPS than just not doing anything, however A seems like a dps loss over B. The problem is, B involves focus capping for a short time.

Edited April 4, 2014 by shango02

[crathen 0]

Orthios:

 

The situation I'm finding myself in is when I have around 70 Focus, and two abilities coming off cooldown roughly at the same time. Let's say, for example, I'm at 70 focus with 1.8 seconds left on the cooldown of ES, and 2.3 seconds left on the cooldown of Black Arrow. If I:

 

A. Arcane Shot down to 40 focus, I then use 25 for ES, and am probably at around 20 focus now (due to passive focus generation) and below the amount I need to then cast Black Arrow. 

This is the correct scenario, but you'll need to cobra before BA. But this is ok, as your BA will not yet have fallen off.

 

B. Cast Cobra Shot, I will probably focus cap due to passive focus generation, but will be able to cast ES and then Black Arrow immediately.

This is a dps loss as you'll 1) focus cap and 2) clip the duration of Black arrow

 

C. Simply do nothing until the ES cooldown and have enough focus to cast both immediately.

Hell no

 

A and B seem like they are better for DPS than just not doing anything, however A seems like a dps loss over B. The problem is, B involves focus capping for a short time.

 

I don't want to be difficult, but as you noted in an earlier post, you don't need to cast BA on cooldown. You need to wait for several seconds depending on your AoC. The correct sequence to do in this scenario is probably Arcane - ES - Cobra - BA. 

Edited April 5, 2014 by crathen

[Orthios 271]

I don't want to be difficult, but as you noted in an earlier post, you don't need to cast BA on cooldown. You need to wait for several seconds depending on your AoC. The correct sequence to do in this scenario is probably Arcane - ES - Cobra - BA. 

It is, and here is the math with shango's current stats (assuming no TotH and Glaives is on cd):

Starting with 70 focus, cast arcane shot  > 40 focus

Focus after GCD (plus .8 sec for ES to come off cd): 48.5 focus

Cast ES > 23.5 focus

Focus after GCD: 29.2

Cast Cobra Shot (worth more than waiting 1.3 sec for BA): 51.2 focus

Cast BA > 16.2 focus

Total time (between starting and casting BA): 4.5 sec.

 

With Glaives ready to use:

Starting with 70, cast Glaives > 55 focus

After GCD (plus .8 sec for ES to come off cd): 63.5 focus

Cast ES > 38.5 focus

After GCD: 43.2 focus

Cast BA > 8.2 focus

Time taken: 2.8 sec

 

With 1 TotH proc, but no Glaives:

Starting at 70 focus, cast Arcane shot > 60 focus

After GCD (plus .8 sec for ES to come off cd): 68.5 focus

Cast ES > 43.5 focs

After GCD: 48.2 focus

Cast BA > 13.2 focus

Time taken: 2.8 sec

 

With 2 TotH procs, but no glaives:

Starting at 70 focus, cast arcane shot > 60 focus

After GCD: 64.7 focus

Cast Arcane shot > 54.7 focus

After GCD: 59.4 focus

Cast ES > 34.4 focus

After GCD: 39.1 focus

Cast BA > 4.1 focus

Time taken: 3.0 sec

 

With 1 TotH proc and Glaives ready to use:

Starting at 70 focus, cast glaives > 55 focus

After GCD, 59.7 focus

Cast Arcane shot > 49.7 focus

After GCD: 54.4 focus

Cast ES > 29.4 focus

After GCD (plus .2 sec): 35 focus

Cast BA > 0 focus

Time taken: 3.2 sec

 

Verdict: take TotH or hope that glaives is ready when you get into this situation.

 

Also: Formula Build, My Build

A few choices on AMR builds, both are viable and each has its perks (mine just has a haste cap at 25% and higher mastery weight).  

[Aliensanta 1]

You can't compare dps numbers at specific ilevels beyond your current ilevel w/o realizing that legendary meta and cloak inflate the numbers a fair bit at the higher gear levels.  Cloak can be ~10% of overall personal dps as Survival if not more.  Also, I don't use a haste cap on my gear because even if the benefits of cast time reduction are less the legendary items still scale with haste.  Not sure if my method is best in terms of dps though, I just dislike mastery for Survival overall as well.