[Archived] Arcane Mage 5.4

[KirynSilverwing 0]

On the Rotation, Cooldowns and Abilities page, under 1.2 Cooldown Usage, the Arcane Mage guide says

Glyph of Loose Mana causes your mana to be restored over time (under the form of a 6-second buff). So, use your Mana Gem before casting Alter Time to double the amount of mana it restores.

Can someone explain how exactly this works? Time travel always gives me a headache, but 6 seconds after casting Alter Time, you are returned to, among other things, the amount of mana you had when you first cast it, before your mana gem started ticking. You're gaining the full amount of mana from your gem during Alter Time, which is then lost, and then gaining the full amount again after Alter Time ends, for no net gain over using either the glyphed or unglyphed version at any other time. Right?

Don't get me wrong, the glyph is great, it helps keep your mana closer to maximum without going over. But I see people saying they get twice as much mana by using it during Alter Time and that just makes no sense to me.

[Tarazet 144]

It seems like this guide has gone through some additions are revisions recently, but it needs some serious editing - it's contradictory from paragraph to paragraph ("All tier 6 talents are viable!" "Rune of power is the only viable tier 6 talent!") and it makes good arcane performance seem an impossible mess to achieve with very little solid direction on the best way to do anything.

Sums up Arcane right now perfectly, now that I think about it.

Well, Arcane is all about mana conservation, so the penalty from Invoker's Ward makes it a non-starter. Incanter's Ward is usable if you know you will take a significant amount of damage every 30 seconds, and can also get down to 80% mana every time - but the only way to do that is to stand perfectly still and spam Arcane Blast for 10 seconds plus, so you might as well be standing in a Rune of Power.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Tarazet

[Tarazet 144]

On the Rotation, Cooldowns and Abilities page, under 1.2 Cooldown Usage, the Arcane Mage guide says

Can someone explain how exactly this works? Time travel always gives me a headache, but 6 seconds after casting Alter Time, you are returned to, among other things, the amount of mana you had when you first cast it, before your mana gem started ticking. You're gaining the full amount of mana from your gem during Alter Time, which is then lost, and then gaining the full amount again after Alter Time ends, for no net gain over using either the glyphed or unglyphed version at any other time. Right?

Don't get me wrong, the glyph is great, it helps keep your mana closer to maximum without going over. But I see people saying they get twice as much mana by using it during Alter Time and that just makes no sense to me.

You do get twice as much mana back. It doesn't make any difference that it gets reset to a higher level by Alter Time - the point is that you had twice the uptime on the mana regeneration, which means you were doing more DPS during that time.

[Guest Pyro]

LB is superior to NT on Megaera because of more single target dps.

[Guest Nosaj]

I was wondering why it's not advised we take the Arcane Power glyph. I still use it because it let's me line up my cooldowns perfectly, but if it's a DPS loss, I'll be willing to forego it.

[Damien 1,514]

I was wondering why it's not advised we take the Arcane Power glyph. I still use it because it let's me line up my cooldowns perfectly, but if it's a DPS loss, I'll be willing to forego it.

The thing is that it does not matter if you get a 30-second or a 15-second Arcane Power when you use Alter Time. You will get 6 more seconds of it in either case. So being able to line up your cooldowns is not a good reason to use the Glyph of Arcane Power.

The reason why you want to avoid using it is because you want to use Arcane Power when you have trinket procs or boss mechanics that increase your damage. These usually last between 10 and 20 seconds and come more often than every 3 minutes, so having a 15-second Arcane Power on a 90-second cooldown makes it easier to line it up with these procs. Time Warp at the beginning of the fight is the main counter-example, but according to Blatty, even when taking Time Warp into account, it is more beneficial to have a 15-second Arcane Power.

[Guest Nosaj]

The thing is that it does not matter if you get a 30-second or a 15-second Arcane Power when you use Alter Time. You will get 6 more seconds of it in either case. So being able to line up your cooldowns is not a good reason to use the Glyph of Arcane Power.

The reason why you want to avoid using it is because you want to use Arcane Power when you have trinket procs or boss mechanics that increase your damage. These usually last between 10 and 20 seconds and come more often than every 3 minutes, so having a 15-second Arcane Power on a 90-second cooldown makes it easier to line it up with these procs. Time Warp at the beginning of the fight is the main counter-example, but according to Blatty, even when taking Time Warp into account, it is more beneficial to have a 15-second Arcane Power.

Awesome! Thank yo so much!

[Mencia 3]

ok I have desided I want to make arcane work and work well, the problem I am running into is there is not truly enough GOOD info on arcane spec as there is fire and frost just not enough people playing it.

I have tried fire and tbh I HATE the way fire works right now and how you have to play it. I truly think Arcane can do as well if not better once figured out fully.

ok to the questions ,

I use Mr. robot and icy veins mostly for forging and geming. the problem I am running into is this

according to Mr Robot I should be using the tier 25 RPPM build

But god it just doesn't seem right stacking that much haste and that low of Mastery as arcane, it goes against everything I have always learned playing a mage as arcane,

so what I am wanting to know is should I find a balance between RPPM build and normal arcane build or go all out RPPM build or all out reg Arcane build?

I have looked up a lot of the ranking arcane mages I could find and it seems to be a mix or they aren't in that spec and gear when I look them up.

Thank you for your time.

[Mencia 3]

also is there a place I can find haste caps hard and soft for arcane? the only thing I can find is for the bombs on Mr Robot.

[Damien 1,514]

also is there a place I can find haste caps hard and soft for arcane? the only thing I can find is for the bombs on Mr Robot.

You can ask in the mage forums, I'm sure someone will be nice enough to compute them for you :)

[Oltier 471]

ok I have desided I want to make arcane work and work well, the problem I am running into is there is not truly enough GOOD info on arcane spec as there is fire and frost just not enough people playing it.

I have tried fire and tbh I HATE the way fire works right now and how you have to play it. I truly think Arcane can do as well if not better once figured out fully.

ok to the questions ,

I use Mr. robot and icy veins mostly for forging and geming. the problem I am running into is this

according to Mr Robot I should be using the tier 25 RPPM build

But god it just doesn't seem right stacking that much haste and that low of Mastery as arcane, it goes against everything I have always learned playing a mage as arcane,

so what I am wanting to know is should I find a balance between RPPM build and normal arcane build or go all out RPPM build or all out reg Arcane build?

I have looked up a lot of the ranking arcane mages I could find and it seems to be a mix or they aren't in that spec and gear when I look them up.

Thank you for your time.

also is there a place I can find haste caps hard and soft for arcane? the only thing I can find is for the bombs on Mr Robot.

What haste cap are you looking for exactly? Like when will you cast Arcane Blast on the GCD oorr..?

Regarding to your other questions, I will look into it. I am having my oral exams today, and an afterparty after that... So, unless someone else can answer the question, please give me like one day to do some research etc. :)

[Tarazet 144]

ok I have desided I want to make arcane work and work well, the problem I am running into is there is not truly enough GOOD info on arcane spec as there is fire and frost just not enough people playing it.

I have tried fire and tbh I HATE the way fire works right now and how you have to play it. I truly think Arcane can do as well if not better once figured out fully.

ok to the questions ,

I use Mr. robot and icy veins mostly for forging and geming. the problem I am running into is this

according to Mr Robot I should be using the tier 25 RPPM build

But god it just doesn't seem right stacking that much haste and that low of Mastery as arcane, it goes against everything I have always learned playing a mage as arcane,

so what I am wanting to know is should I find a balance between RPPM build and normal arcane build or go all out RPPM build or all out reg Arcane build?

I have looked up a lot of the ranking arcane mages I could find and it seems to be a mix or they aren't in that spec and gear when I look them up.

Thank you for your time.

Simcraft will be a better tool for what you're trying to do than Ask Mr. Robot, at least (maybe) until they introduce their new algorithm which is supposed to provide more accurate results. Arcane is a funny creature because Haste decreases the effectiveness of your Mastery, since it causes you to burn mana faster without improving regeneration. It's a balancing act. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that stacking Haste would merit a different playstyle, one that relies more on burn phases followed by recovery abilities.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Tarazet

[Mencia 3]

What haste cap are you looking for exactly? Like when will you cast Arcane Blast on the GCD oorr..?

Regarding to your other questions, I will look into it. I am having my oral exams today, and an afterparty after that... So, unless someone else can answer the question, please give me like one day to do some research etc.

Mr robot gives the break points for the bombs . what I have been unable to find and have no clue how to do it is find out the soft/hard cap on hitting casting global cd for AB and AM , thank you for doing this for me.

[Mencia 3]

Simcraft will be a better tool for what you're trying to do than Ask Mr. Robot, at least (maybe) until they introduce their new algorithm which is supposed to provide more accurate results. Arcane is a funny creature because Haste decreases the effectiveness of your Mastery, since it causes you to burn mana faster without improving regeneration. It's a balancing act. One thing I'm pretty sure of is that stacking Haste would merit a different playstyle, one that relies more on burn phases followed by recovery abilities.

from what I have learned they changed the way haste affects the mana regen hince why according to Mr Robot atm says at a point of gear it is better to go heavy haste. I have played arcane in many different expansions and this is the first time I have ever seen arcane go this way and truly have a hard time believing it. I can see heavy mastery making you hit harder but that is seeming to have a lot of rng factor to it. so basically I am trying to figure out how much haste is just enough to hit CD and benefit from the regin and not take away more mastery then you have to. Edited June 26, 2013 by Mencia

[Oltier 471]

from what I have learned they changed the way haste affects the mana regen hince why according to Mr Robot atm says at a point of gear it is better to go heavy haste. I have played arcane in many different expansions and this is the first time I have ever seen arcane go this way and truly have a hard time believing it. I can see heavy mastery making you hit harder but that is seeming to have a lot of rng factor to it. so basically I am trying to figure out how much haste is just enough to hit CD and benefit from the regin and not take away more mastery then you have to.

from what I have learned they changed the way haste affects the mana regen hince why according to Mr Robot atm says at a point of gear it is better to go heavy haste. I have played arcane in many different expansions and this is the first time I have ever seen arcane go this way and truly have a hard time believing it. I can see heavy mastery making you hit harder but that is seeming to have a lot of rng factor to it. so basically I am trying to figure out how much haste is just enough to hit CD and benefit from the regin and not take away more mastery then you have to.

Weiirrd... I have ran simcrafts with full heroic gear, which resulted in Mastery being better.

Then, I ran Simcraft with my own gear, resulting in haste being better, due to the RPPM trinkets and the legendary meta gem.

Mastery DPS: 181229

Haste build DPS: 194192

Gasp, this is big difference oO

Blindly, I cannot tell you which build would be more beneficial for you, but if you link me your armory, I could do simcraft for you. :)

Regarding to the cast time: the formula is

Haste required = ((Base Cast Time / Desired Cast Time) - 1) * 100

Haste required = ((1,5/1)-1)*100=50

So, you will need 50% haste rating, to rating selfbuffed, without trinket/metagem procs for AB to be on 1 sec cast.

For AM this would be more haste. My personal opinion is, that u should go for 50% haste, then go for mastery. But keep in mind, that when u have heroism or meta gem proc you will inevitably hit the GCD, but just because of these, you shouldn't really stack less haste.

[Oltier 471]

On the other hand, Blatty from Method is currently playing with arcane spec in ToT HC and he found mastery to be better even with RPPMs... :) Due to the bomb snapshotting method.

[Mencia 3]

now you understand my dilemma and confusion on this hast and mastery thingy. here is my mages link http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuluhed/Mencia/advanced

[Mencia 3]

I did change to a higher mastery atm and do seem to be hitting harder atleast in LFR will get a better idea tonight in our guild run if it actually made a improvement or not. On a side note blizzard better decide to do something for mages soon about being able to move and dps better, by the sounds of the 5.4 arcane will be even worse off then it currently is with the movement thing.

[Vladamyr 169]

I really, really wish Blizzard would change the Tier 6 talents for mages. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening this xpac :(

I haven't seen anything in the patch notes to suggest mages are losing mobility. As for mobility, sadly that is one of the reasons fire does so well. It is simply the most mobile of the mage specs.

Everything on current arcane mages that I have read still points towards Mastery>Haste. I am interested if anyone has success with the haste build. I may respec and try it out some (I've hit full boredom with Fire and Frost). Uggh, if only Arcane didn't require Rune of Power. /sigh

[Oltier 471]

Yea, they've confirmed that T6 revamp would be a too big change in the game for a patch, so they'll only do it in next expansion.

In theory you should do more dps in haste guild... but I have had no chance of trying it in raids. Maybe at the weekend.. :) If only I was a bit more into the game. Guild is having a break from wow for 1-2 weeks, no raids at all.. -->nothing to do.. epic boredom. :D

Anyway, while RoP gives you no movement at all, with a bit of a planning you can easily stay in a spot for a long time. Casting a few spells without RoP is also quite fine. Ie.: If there's a bolt from Jin rokh coming to you, you will move to a side let the ball pass and go back to your rune. Tortos.. If you stay to the side, you don't have to move at all usually, But you can put down 2 runes and jsut move to the other in case of a falling rock. Megaera: put runes in melee range -->almost no movement. But u can put 1 rune in ranged position just in case of a green bolt. And I could go on with the list... :)

[Blatty 2]

Please stop trying to stack haste over mastery. Haste will never overcome Mastery in a way that almost all encounters are multi-target encounters. On multi-target encounters you want to put bombs on everything, and use arcane explosion/glyphed coc most of the time. For those situations, Mastery completely destroys haste.

In what situation does haste really perform better than mastery? I think none. Everyone is troll nowadays, everyone has meta gem. Going haste over mastery would mean you would be GCD capped on Arcane Blast in many situations, and would also suffer from lower bomb/aoe damage. Why would you do that ? There is no single target encounter in ToT, and if you refer to Jin'Rok sorry but mastery outperforms haste there as well because of the damage increase mechanic from the pools.

Haste helping with mana regeneration? I believe the arcane rotation is SO simple that anyone is able to comprehend how not to go below 85% mana at all times (hello arcane barrage).

Stop trying to reinvent the spec when all you need to do is check that the person that made the guide can actually back his infos up with multiple top ranks on every single encounter in ToT 25 HC.

[Guest TimWB]

First of all, thanks for all of the work put into your class guides. I look at them frequently!

I had a question about the legendary meta gem. The one that's listed as preferred gives crit with a 30% haste proc. As I understand, crit isn't terribly useful for arcane, so I'm wondering why the "healer" legendary meta gem wouldn't be better, which provides an Int increase along with a proc that makes your spells cost no mana for a few seconds (and arcane requires having as much mana to produce higher numbers).

Thanks for the advice!

[Stoove 347]

First of all, thanks for all of the work put into your class guides. I look at them frequently!

I had a question about the legendary meta gem. The one that's listed as preferred gives crit with a 30% haste proc. As I understand, crit isn't terribly useful for arcane, so I'm wondering why the "healer" legendary meta gem wouldn't be better, which provides an Int increase along with a proc that makes your spells cost no mana for a few seconds (and arcane requires having as much mana to produce higher numbers).

Thanks for the advice!

If you mean the Courageous Primal Diamond then you're out of luck. The tooltip specifies beneficial spells, so your damage spells won't proc it!

[Tarazet 144]

If you mean the Courageous Primal Diamond then you're out of luck. The tooltip specifies beneficial spells, so your damage spells won't proc it!

1. Healing Touch from Symbiosis/Gift of the Naaru/Lifeblood

2. Free Arcane Blasts

3. Win?

I don't know, my Mage doesn't have that gem yet. But, I'm pretty sure the temporary spell haste buff is amazing.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Tarazet

[Oltier 471]

So you would like to use a healing spell that MIGHT proc a mana-free spell?

Just Nope. :)

 

You would be wasting a huge amount of DPS.