destro/demo help

[Nalar 0]

hi peeps,

             here is my armoury

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bloodhoof/Nalar/simple

 

there is alot of talk with people going destro / afflic but im wondering are theyre any locks that go destro / demo and what haste caps do you do.

plain and simple.

 

thanks in advance

                             nalar

 

[Zagam 1,982]

No Haste 'caps' for either spec.  You can't use a similar Haste value for both specs as a sufficient amount of Haste for Demonology involves GCD capping for Destruction.  Destro doesn't like going over 10.1k Haste while Demo's smoother gameplay requires 16k+.

[Astynax 24]

best bet is talking to liquid about this. I know he runs it, but i'm not sure exactly what he does in terms of reforge and stat priority.

[Desos 18]

I´ve built myself a Demo template from pieces that I can´t use in my destro gear:
Here is my Destro Gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/Desos/advanced  (Need ring from Thok to lower hit rating without being too far under the cap)

For Demo I switch:

• the head piece with the Flameslingers Fiery Cowl,
• shoulder with set piece
• wrists with Avools Ancestral Bracers
• and feet with Sha-Seared Sandals

​I don´t have to regem/reforge my destro-gear and I am able to reach the +2 BP for Doom.
Of course this is far from being as optimal as a seperate gear set, but this was for me and for fun

[Liquidsteel 279]

I actually reforge and gem a lot depending on which spec I want to play. As Zagam said, one single reforge is not going to be optimal.

Shinafae from blood legion runs 8.1k haste whilst maxing mastery followed by crit. Ive always been a fan of 14880 for troll, but will be trying a build with 23k haste this reset just to try things out.

If you plan to mainly play destro then you can copy shinafaes reforge and do fine. Haste vs Crit is largely a matter of preference and also can vary depending on the fight.

Normally id run 14880 with bboy for demo which brings me down to 12k for destro when I swap to KTT.

I had the luxury of raiding 25 man for 5 months so I have like 4 offpieces to choose from.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Unless you are super starved for haste, you shouldn't be switching out and dropping a ton of mastery to change specs. It's just really suboptimal.

 

Which one is Shinafae again? The chick, right?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Kazistrasz

[Zagam 1,982]

Unless you are super starved for haste, you shouldn't be switching out and dropping a ton of mastery to change specs. It's just really suboptimal.

 

Which one is Shinafae again? The chick, right?

This is old Demo thought, Kaz.  New Demo played well sometimes uses VERY high Haste.  16k+, and I've seen some parsers have 23k Haste.  Without 100% Crit Doom, pushing Imps and building Demonic Fury increases Metamorphosis uptime and higher Soul Fire use.  Even though ToC doesn't technically 'scale' with Haste, high parsing Demo utilizes Soul Fire more often anyways, so the Haste is of benefit across the board.  On short fights, that much Haste can shove Doom down to a 5 second tick interval meaning you get 18 ticks of Doom in 90 seconds which is absurd.  I'll be toying with it more after we get SoO on farm.  I don't 100% understand it yet, but methinks Haste plays into it better than Mastery.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Logic says that at a point, due to the multiplicative relationship, mastery gives you more damage than haste. Fury generation is a part of it, too. I don't argue against that. I just think that when you're going for something as absurdly high as 23k haste or anything beyond really 16k IMO that mastery would have to give you more per point. Like you said, I'd need to do numbers with it to really see, but I can't see how that much plays out better at the expense of so much mastery.

[Desos 18]

Where do you aim at for uptime on meta? switched around to meet next BP for shadowflame and was around 38-40% on a dummy, selfbuffed. My uptime on 2pc was  like 26%

[Liquidsteel 279]

Not sure what is considered good as never analysed it.

For comparison my last IJ kill as Demo had 40% meta uptime and 32.7% 2pc uptime.

[Zagam 1,982]

40-45% is pretty optimal. 

[Desos 18]

Okay, raidbuffs, especially haste, should bring up the uptme on meta since shadowflame gains a tick. For the 2 pc´s uptime I have to learn to better use soulfire. For now I save 3 MC procs to have these for the HoG "trick", then inside meta I´m looking for procs: no procs-> ToC, haste procs and or MC-> soulfire while making sure to stack corruption up again.

Right now demo on single target feels like a ranged fury warrior, every 20 seconds or so hell breaks loose, the rest of the time you´re building up resources and every time your cd´s are ready, you´ll enter the 7th stage of hell. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

You want to save all MC procs and fury for cooldowns. In an ideal world you jump into meta with DS and PBI at 900 fury with 9 stacks and just unleash 10 soulfires back to back.

If you're only banking 3 charges you're losing damage. Try to never soulfire in caster form if you can help it. Sometimes ill do it in between HoGs to bait a 2pc before jumping into meta but thats it really unless you're capping charges.

Try not to spend too much fury during HoG weaves, and make sure to burn as much as you can during trinket procs.

[Desos 18]

Okay I will try this, thanks. I aimed at 700+ fury for DS, I guess just old T15 behaviour. I actually were able to be in meta all the time during every DS following the one in the opener, but I guess just because of overuse of ToC. 
I would like to hear from your experience regarding the 23k+ haste build.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Haven't tried it yet. Will report back on Thursday at the earliest.

[Desos 18]

No hurry, I just saw your post as I reread the thread and thought it could be interesting

[Liquidsteel 279]

So tried full haste demo today.

 

22k haste with just under 14k mastery.

 

It feels really smooth and fun to play. I know nobody plays it in 10 man so ranks don't mean too much, but single target damage is really good. Improved on my Malkorok parse by 30k, and IJ would have been 60k higher but someone kited laser over tar and I died.

 

Isn't really compatible with Destro off spec with all the haste gemming, but it's a fun play style.

[Desos 18]

I tried Demo too. It was real fun, but it is no dps specc for real competition. Rankings are easily achievable.
Especially Protectors was fun since I wrote myself some macros to achieve the following:
prepot + precast soulfire on Rook
GrimServ+ Felstorm
HoG
Corruption on all three Mobs
Orc+DS
HoG
Meta
Doom etc
 

This made the opener more fluid due to all those Shadowflame ticks.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/9F1Rq6rCjfJnHYW3#fight=3&type=damage-done&source=26

Did not tried Thok for Demo since I would have nothing to cast inbetween his shouts except for MC´ed soulfires and Fel Flame. At almost 15k haste shadowbolt is still over  1.5 sec cast time.
Maybe I will start to collect some offpieces to build myself a separate gear set.

[Zagam 1,982]

Build up Demonic Fury so you can stay in Metamorphosis during Thok's spam interrupt phase.  Meta provides damage reduction as a bonus!  When you run out of DF, use Unending Resolve for 4-5 free Shadowbolt/Soul Fire casts and don't forget Devotion Auras that let you continue your cast.

[Desos 18]

Our raid lead got those CDs pretty good covered by DBM timers he writes every individual id/setup, so every one knows  when the Devotion Auras should come up. Of course I play with glyphed Unending Resolve^^

I fear Thok as demo because if you screw up the opener with bloodlust and get interrupted, it is very hard to get back on track as someone who played demo mostly through ToT´s UVLS hype. Since our 2 WL(this includes me) are on bat duty, and we stay out of melee range to thok, Destro is simply the more effective specc for me. Maybe I can convince my raid lead to position me in melee range to Thok AND  Bats so I can melt them away. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Demo is quite fine for the bats.  Should be sitting on a charge of Dark Soul and an adequate supply of Demonic Fury.  2x Hand of Guldan + Grimoire:Felguard + Felguard - Felstorm should more than do the trick.  Plus, if you swapped places with one melee person, you could mix in Immo Aura.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Looking at warcraft logs events view, I got my Doom intervals to be 4.6 seconds apart in the opener. Critting for 973k on Malkorok even with the much lower mastery (this was without skull banner as non of the first 4 ticks were crits). Overwrote it perhaps too early on Iron Juggernaut, but my BBoY was proccing like crazy on that fight. 

 

My best with Affliction so far was 430k on IJ, but I was definitely going to end up with 450k+ this fight before I died. The haste build is super strong and definitely can compete.

 

One thing I've been experimenting with (not my own idea) is Drain Life with Harvest Life talent on the opener. Snapshotting it with tons of haste and int procs when you can't soulfire. Ticks like 12 times in under 3 seconds and does about 2M damage+ if done properly. Really cranks up the opener as it does way more damage than a few ToC's in the same time frame.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g2aWycVZLvHz1jQm#fight=24&type=damage&source=7&hostility=&ability=603&target=443&view=events

Edited April 11, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[Zagam 1,982]

Nice - I'm going to be testing 580 PBI + 561 BBoY and dropping my 574 KTT because I hate Multistrike RNG.  I'm going to be using a pet instead of GoSac and seeing how the damage feels.  I don't care about rankings so much as I care about modifying things.  After this week, I'll be going heavy Haste Demo to see how it feels.  Since we're both in 10 man, it should be interesting to see.  Thankfully I picked up Ragebar, so my Doom crits will hit a bit harder.

[Astynax 24]

Depending on raid comp, it's normal for a few ranged to be on melee anyway. IK the 25m I'm with atm has me on our melee stack, along with our boomie. But we're ranged heavy as hell, and our mDPS amounts to about 5 people.

[Kazistrasz 216]

I wish I had the extra gear on my lock to get to that much haste. I max out at 13.9k. :(