Fairly new disc looking for advice

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Hi,

So I have recently returned to raiding, and am playing a disc priest for the first time. This is the first time I have raided as a healer, but have tanked and dpsd in quite high end guilds in the past. I am rather competitive, and another disc out healing me tonight has prompted me to make this post.

I don't feel I am doing anything hugely incorrect, but any tips you can give would be very much appreciated.

The logs I am linking is our normal mode clean up raid, and being so, we had our tank healing in terrible gear at some points, had 2 warriors tanking at others and 2 discs healing the whole way through, not to mention boosting a social from the guild. Needless to say, not a great raid set up. As well as this, I don't actually feel preformed to my usual standard, but that's probably an excuse I am making because I got out healed >.>

Anyway, without further ado, here are the logs:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3PMfDwVaTZgzXvN8#type=summary&source=52

Here is my armoury:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Tetonic/advanced

And here is the other disc:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Nailin/advanced

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Tetonic

Edited April 8, 2014 by Rhoanbirch

[Phake 8]

Edit: Are you really Tetonic and your partner is Nailin or vice versa? I'm confused by this as Tetonic has dealt more damage und healed more or as much in almost every fight, so I don't get why you should complain about that, but anyways:

 

Some things to say at first:

You've done your homework correctly, your partner not quite. Gemming Int and going for the T16-4pc isn't how you want to equip as of now. Meeting the point where your iLvl is near to the 550ish your secondaries outclasses your mainstat by 2:1 - so go for those secondaries.

[You can catch up on the 'latest' secondary discussion in this thread: https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5389-crit-level/]

 

I like your itemchoice, but you should really aim for the T16-2pc bonus as it is huge. Also you should change your weapon enchant and use Jade Spirit. You don't need to aim for +60 Spirit socket boni [rings], only aim for 120+ Int.

 

Your uptime on ToF seems pretty good, your cloak does help you with that. I really like the dps cloak in those encounters, it's a viable choice!

 

Well regarding that you've gotten outhealed by your healmate, I don't see that for your Garrosh kill. You've 'beaten' him by 20k HPS, although that's stupid to say. I - personally - don't like raiding with another disc in a 10man raid, because you're both giving everyone shields [i.e spirit shell a whirl], but not both 'shells' will be consumed. There's sometimes 'overshielding', same for PW: Shield. It's kind of a game who's gonna hit the button first.

 

But if you are comparing your healing you'll see, that he/she got way more absorbs [thanks to T16-2pc]. You are a disc, so you are a shielding class.

 

So, bottom line, you're doing a good job, your armory seems kind of right - just some minor min/max things - an your spirit level seems fine too, you may drop a ton if you got the siegecrafter trinket und got used to your legendary meta.

 

Hope that this are some helpful thoughts and I'm trying to get a deeper look into the logs! (:

 

Quick edit. Your healing partner used Inner Will, which I would never recommend and Divine Insight, which is kind of weak opposed to ToF as it will have a high uptime at a fight like garrosh [i.e adds, intermission, transition phases] and you aren't really in a need for that extra shield. You could adress this to him, in a constructive way or even send him over, I would love to discuss his decision for that!

Edited April 9, 2014 by Phake

[ClaytonMcKown 4]

ok first why are you using Xing-Ho, Breath of Yu'lon the dps cape and not the healing one? could be that your dpsing right now or longed out in a dps spec?

but look at the item level your comparing a 561 item level to a 573. after 565 people tend to kick their healing in to over drive. i would question his gemming" why is he stacking Brilliant Primordial Ruby? your running 34% mast. he running 49% mast, that a major part of his healing. but you have more crit then he dose. is his intell is about 6 k more then yours.  i think part of your issues is your crit/ masty is the same.

"I am rather competitive, and another disc out healing me tonight has prompted me to make this post."  im honestly shocked he did.  yes the 6 k intel. + the 15% more mastory helps. long story short i think it just gear. 561<573. it just about gear mostly and dont be so competitive it not worth your time

[Notoris 3]

ok first why are you using Xing-Ho, Breath of Yu'lon the dps cape and not the healing one? could be that your dpsing right now or longed out in a dps spec?

 

First: spirit is only useful as disc to a certain point which is not hard to reach. So the spirit from the cloak does not make a big difference.

 

Second: the proc from the cloak does not contribute to PW:S, Divine Aegis and Spirit Shell. Atonement is a smart heal so there is hardly any overhealing to distribute for the proc (I saw fights with meters reporting cloak healing as low as 0.8% even with 200k healing/absorb pr. sec.)

 

Third: the 5% extra healing component of the proc is so short and rare that it is only 0.63% ekstra on average. And it is random which is a bad type of proc for any healer.

 

Fourth: there is no crit on it!

 

The dps cloak is - a dps cloak but it has crit on it! And considering the above mentioned points you might as well chose to embrace the extra crit and dps instead. The effect will also trigger Twist of Faith hitting low health mobs.

 

At least it makes good sense to me 

 

Edit: Found out that the RRPM for disc is 0.76 procs pr. minute and adjusted the average.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Notoris

[Phake 8]

[...] and dont be so competitive it not worth your time

 

Of course he should, that's why he is here, to optimize his playstyle!

 

I've had a deeper look into your logs and they look pretty good! You got a high uptime on your PoM, you make efficient use of your SS, your Evangelism uptime is 85+% and your AA is used often aswell.

Some minor point is to consider Spectral Guise as a viable option for Siegecrafter/Paragons, as you can dodge sawblades, aim and - I'm not 100% sure about that, haven't tested it myself - the little bug thingy that taunts you.

 

A small issue: You have taken the PW: Solace as your mana regen talent, but you don't use it quite on cooldown, you miss - in every fight - up to 10 PW: Solace casts, even in straight fights like paragons/siegecrafter. An alternative is to choose mindbender as it provides you with a huge amount of damage and a very good mana regen - glyphed with the minor sha-glyph it's off the GCD so you don't even have to waste a cast for it.

Nevertheless: Most of your healing comes from HF/PW: Solace and Penenace, so you have to cast these two on cooldown! Use Smite/PW: Shield and every other spell as a filler, try to adapt your playstyle around these two spells. But have always an eye on certain boss mechanics or fuckups by your teammates.

You have chosen the right L90 talents for the specific encounters, that's good!

 

Beside that, your problem is not your playstyle. Sure, you can optimize that, but that are minor things. Keep an eye on your gear, try to get yourt BiS items and learn how to react to certain boss encounters, you're on a good way!

[Rhoanbirch 5]

@ Phake, thanks a lot, your comments are very helpful! I didn't realise I was missing that many PW: Solace casts, this is something I will try to rectify, and if not, take mana fiend.

 

It was also very useful for you to point out me missing two piece. This came about as I got the warforged shoulders, and forgot that I had tier shoulders! Been a week and I didn't realise, so thank you again.

 

@ all others. If possible, please try to point out what I can improve, not Nailin, I am well aware that he is gemming and reforging incorrectly. 

 

Again, thanks for the responses, I look forward to trying to implement them into my play!

[Rhoanbirch 5]

We are about to move on to malkarok HC, and I am looking for any tips you can give about this fight.

Thanks in advance.

Tetonic.

[Phake 8]

For Malkorok I really like to play Holy, it's just fun and kind of better for the encounter - in my opinion.

 

But for disc: Try to shield everyone, who'll soak a void, give your PS to your more squishy tank during the blood rage phase, void shift isn't good at this encounter. PW: Barrier right on top of your two tanks as they are soaking the bloodrage damage.

 

Keep a close eye on your dd's who'll soak the bubbles during bloodrage, give them as many shields as they need. A defensive penance comes in handy, some flash heal will too [if needed].

 

The rest is quite similar to NHC, Halo on CD, SS before the pull and before blood rage. For the rest: just use atonement on the boss: Penance, HF/PW: Solace on CD and with Smite as a filler.

 

Little advise: try to take mindbender for this encounter. it can be quite mana intensive in the first few seconds so you'll use your mindbender as you activate AA, then it should be up after the first breath, line your second mindbender then up with your hymn and you will be at ~100% mana again.

Also, don't forget to pre-pot an int potion, it will help you get the shields of everyone full asap!

Edited April 9, 2014 by Phake

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Great! My thoughts were pretty much along these lines, good to get the affirmed.

I can for see myself having some mana issues on this, as my fellow healers are a paladin and druid.

My thinking for playing disc was that, with a druid in nearly BiS gear, we wont have any trouble HPS wise, and disc brings so useful things to the fight (Ps, barrier, PW:S for orbs and puddles) but if we are having trouble with HPS, I would go holy. What are your thoughts about this thought process?

Again, thank you for your help <3

[Phake 8]

Yes, if you are 3-healing this encounter disc is the better spec!

Use your legendary dps cloak and try mindbender, this will provide a huge - and much needed - dps boost!

 

Wish you good luck and tell us how it went!

[Gwenymph 414]

We are about to move on to malkarok HC, and I am looking for any tips you can give about this fight.

Thanks in advance.

Tetonic.

 

Grats on the improvement, to possibly get a little more input from the posters; post some HC logs.  I pulled up your account from your OP and there wasn't an updated log posted yet.

[Rhoanbirch 5]

No, we raid Thursday Sunday Monday so tonight is first raid since reset :) Will post logs after raid.

[Gwenymph 414]

Sounds great, good luck tonight!

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Right so here are the logs from tonight. I forgot to delete the old one, so it has uploaded some of the fights from last weeks normals... Very annoying. Also forgot to turn it on for Immersus. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/reportslist/7873/

 

Remember that this is the first time I have done HC sha, galakras or juggernaut, and have only done immersus protectors and nourshen once!

 

Pretty sure i shouldn't have taken halo for jug.

 

Any feedback welcome! 

[Phake 8]

Hey, I had a quick look over your logs!

 

I would recommend Power Infusion and Divine Star for Iron Juggernaut HC. Power Infusion is great for Siege Phase and you really have no need for ToF, because the sub 30% phase isn't that hard. The choice for DS is, that you 3-healed it, so you can focus on atonement/shielding and use DS for the stacked siege phase - if you 2-heal you may choose Cascade for the spread assault phase.

 

On a general note: Your PoM uptime is pretty high. If it's over 95% you may refresh it too early. I don't know if you use WeakAuras, but I use this string to keep an eye on my active PoM stacks [http://pastebin.com/RU8Vk5yZ - maybe it is useful for someone.]

You have casted it 26 times and it bounced 69 times out of possible 130 times, this isn't that bad, but could be optimized.

 

Well, some minor points: You missed some PW: Solace, a SS and you had 12 lgm procs, but only 16 PW: Shield on Norushen. Yeah, but that is some pretty cosmetic stuff. Nobody died, so you've done your job correctly! Also you've corrected this for IJ, so it's not a big deal.

 

All in all my posts sound more negative than it should, you've done a great job and gratz on your HC kills!

 

Edit: May I ask why you've taken DS for the protectors? Was it some tactic stuff [that you don't have to bother about calamity, instead got bursty heal for the Rook/Sun phase], because I normally go for Halo at this encounter.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Phake

[Rhoanbirch 5]

On the contrary, negative is what I want you to be, couldn't improve if you glossed over what I was doing wrong, even if it is a little thing.

I took DS because the tactic we use requires us to be stacked the majority of the time, and we are stacked for probably at least 80% of calamities, so I thought DS would be better. I think it was the correct choice, but I am an amateur!

I think I will take DS for IJ from now on, halo really didn't seem to work. I also took mindbender as I thought there would be a large downtime on solace in p2, however, I timed it very badly, and it kept coming of CD in p2, which is far from ideal.

I took ToF as I it procs quite often from healing. 58% uptime on ToF is pretty good isn't it? 

Again, thanks for the feedback, it helps me a great deal.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Rhoanbirch

[Gwenymph 414]

On the contrary, negative is what I want you to be, couldn't improve if you glossed over what I was doing wrong, even if it is a little thing.

I took DS because the tactic we use requires us to be stacked the majority of the time, and we are stacked for probably at least 80% of calamities, so I thought DS would be better. I think it was the correct choice, but I am an amateur!

I think I will take DS for IJ from now on, halo really didn't seem to work. I also took mindbender as I thought there would be a large downtime on solace in p2, however, I timed it very badly, and it kept coming of CD in p2, which is far from ideal.

I took ToF as I it procs quite often from healing. 58% uptime on ToF is pretty good isn't it? 

Again, thanks for the feedback, it helps me a great deal.

 

I'll chime in maybe some pointers will surface.

 

Protectors:

I also use DS for our strat.  Your AA and ToF uptime were great on that fight.  Only thing that stands out is you used SS only 4x on a 9min fight.  Double up on its use next time.

 

Norushen:

Again AA and ToF uptime are great.  Only cast 14x in 6.5min encounter, missing 10+ opportunities.

 

Galakras:

Uptimes are well above average. DS over Cascade next time. After the boss comes down DS really shines here if you are positioned correctly.  You only used SS 2x in a 10m encounter, like Protectors you have to use this a lot more frequently.  Get a WA tracker for it.

 

Juggs:

ToF is great, AA slipped under 50% on this encounter.  If you use the Stacked Strat, DS shines otherwise I'm really indifferent on L90 choice.  Use what works best for you.  1 SS on a 7min fight, I see a trend here.  You procced ABulwark 2x on this fight, ouch.  Just be more aware and possibly keep a PWS up on yourself at all times.

 

 

You and I have such different playstyles.  Our approach to the encounters are extremely similar (I'd like to think that is a compliment to both of us) ie: gems, L90's, atonement percentage, glyphs, LMG tracking, (i keep ToF for every fight).   The biggest difference to the playstyle revolves around Solace it seems.  I haven't used Solace in all of SoO, I prefer Mindbender.  I use the extra ~100+ GCDs for more PoH on most fights and more DS on the others. Try to work in Void Shift while we still have it!  If you used it at all I missed it.  Desperate Prayer after your Shift, that would mean abandoning ABulwark but that is only useful if you are slacking whereas DPrayer can be used after every VS and other opportunistic times at your discretion instead of just fixing a mistake like ABulwark.

 

The following:

1) Extra more powerful healing GCD usage by not taking Solace

2) Difference in iLVL 563 to 576 

3) You share some fights w/ another Disc

4) Your raid dps is a bit lower, extending your encounter duration

 

results in about a 40-60k hps difference.  You buff times are better than mine so exchanging Solace for some other talent will, imo, increase your hps significantly.  By all means, you do not have to change it, just suggesting based on log comparison.  With  your ToF and AA uptime you will see a nice jump in HPS by doing so as long as you can continue to manage your mana efficiently.  I'd definitely suggest taking Jade Spirit over your current weapon enchant.  Bottom line though, if you don't change Solace (which would probably take some time to acclimate to) you absolutely need to do a better job as using your SS.  Even if you were not a "recently returning to raiding priest" your logs still support that you have not lost "IT." 

 

Great job again!  Get that SS maxxed out and you'll be ecstatic.  IF you decide to take the healing meter blue pill by swapping out Solace and manage your mana I'll have to start trying harder when we compare logs next time around so I can somewhat appear to know what I'm recommending!  If you want to see any of the fight comparisons, the link to my WarcraftLogs is in my signature.  Hope you found something useful here and GL!

Edited April 11, 2014 by Gwenymph

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Very helpful indeed! I was actually 561 at the time of these logs, got the helm during the raid >_>

 

I have thought up a few questions.

 

Taking solace; it does take up 100+ globals a fight, but if I was to take mindbender, would these not be taken up using HF?

 

Do you SS on CD? You seem to imply that you do it nearly on CD in your reply. I'm sure I don't know the fights well enough to make this judgement, but it seems to me that there aren't the opportunities in all fights (Sha and Galakras stand out especially) to use it on close to CD and line it up with boss mechanics. 

 

Phake has very kindly informed me after going over my logs that I often overwrite an existing PoM. I absolutely agree that this is something I need to improve on, however, I often see that there are 3 or less charges remaining, PoM is off CD, and the person it is currently on is not likely to take damage any time soon. Is it the wrong decision to overwrite it then?

 

This is probably an unanswerable question as it is way to situational, but if Solace is off CD, but I am in the middle of say stacking an SS, do you take the global to cast Solace?

 

I really appreciate the time you guys are taking to help me, I am starting to feel like I know the disc class at least a little now, of course there is still a large room for improvement. 

[Gwenymph 414]

1) Solace is used on CD for good practice and maxxed mana returns.  Using HF on CD is not nearly as integral.  If HF comes of CD while you are going through the motions for dmg prevention, it falls way down the priority list.  It is a nice go between to keep you ToF up.  Where normally you might Solace an add, instead you can hold HF til an add is at 35% then instant HF and be on your way w/ a renewed ToF.

 

2) Using SS is maximized by knowing the encounter and the Boss abilities.  SS is our strongest directly applied tool, where DA is our strongest heal but does not have to be applied specifically.  Using it on CD would still be better than using it less than half the opportunities.  For your examples: 

 

Sha max use comes as soon as prisons are broke out.  Blanket as much as possible before the AoE goes out.  if no one is out of range gathering Rifts AND you are able to target the centrally located person in each group you can negate the AoE dmg completely. 

 

My personal rotation ( for what it's worth ): Prisons are released  AA/PWS/IF/SS>PoH(tank), SS>PoH(central member of g2, me if necessary), rinse repeat for 10sec at that time Unleash AoE cast timer starts >PoM then Cascade (or DS depending on strat).  Cast finishes, AA fades.  Mechanic ignored.

 

Gala:  The first AoE shout happens too quick to stack 5 AA.  So get 2 smites and a HF off, AA (3) IF/SS blanket.  That's my opener.  Your prepot will still be up so if you choose to hold AA, no love lost.  Use it for the AoE waves, Use it for the Serpent biach, use it if you are on Tower 1 duty (tower 2 normally just the tank needs heals).  When the boss drops, use SS and DS on CD for the remainder of the fight.

 

3)  When I did use Solace I never used a SS GCD for it.  I would not recommend it now if you decide to keep it.

 

4) PoM on your tank that will proc it the quickest. When it comes of CD, hit the tank again IF it's is no longer on them or when it leaves them.  I agree w/ Phake no need to reapply it it is on them or has bounced back to them when PoM comes off CD.  If it's still on them, you could find a better initial target for it.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Gwenymph

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Thanks, very useful comments :)

[Brutalpriest 60]

As for those mystery GCD's....

 

Shadowfiend, with the minor Glyph of Sha, has it's GCD cast time... mostly removed.  It's weird.  I believe that Mindbender is that way whether or not you have it glyphed, but I just don't use it.  PW:Solace, of course, does use a GCD, but so does Holy Fire, so there's no change there.

 

For heroic malkorok, I strongly recommend you use PoH very frequently.  It might be a good idea to go holy for this fight, as you should be using PoH without SS and greater heal often.  If you have lots of spare gold, consider purchasing the healing legendary cloak and equiping it for this fight.

[Rhoanbirch 5]

Hi,

 

I have 0 gold so even regemming holy is not an option lol.

 

Here are tonight's logs, any critiques welcome!

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V4vFmxZzBTD7c9Lb/#fight=14&type=healing

[Brutalpriest 60]

It looks like you're running angelic bulwark, you really should be using desperate prayer.

 

Pride: Use SS every time the boss uses his 100 energy attack.

 

In general your PoM uptime is low. 

 

You seem to be doing okay otherwise.  Sorry, I don't have a lot of time just now to do an in depth analysis.

[Gwenymph 414]

Hi,

 

I have 0 gold so even regemming holy is not an option lol.

 

Here are tonight's logs, any critiques welcome!

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V4vFmxZzBTD7c9Lb/#fight=14&type=healing

 

Fallen:

ToF and AA uptime were great (again).  As Brutal mentioned PoM uptime was 62% and should be higher.  As with last time, you just need to work in SS more often.  5x in a 8min fight where there is constant dmg going out, especially w/ Garrote.  Great job though I think next week, you and Nailin try and two heal this encounter.

 

Noru:

Yada yada ToF AA great heh.  PoM uptime only 43% on a consistent dmg fight, ouch.  Great improvement on SS over last time! 5x in 6min, excellent.  DS was only used 2x per minute, more attention is needed there.  It might be hairy if you have to move for cutters too often but it looks like you and the shaman can give 2 healing this a shot next week.

 

Sha:

Repeat ToF AA, check.  Your PoM uptime shot up to 100% here and it looks like its because you are casting it on yourself instead of initially targeting tanks(2x) or Arrogance targets(7x).  Sadpanda SS only 3x.

 

Gala:

ToF AA thumbs up. PoM uptime at 89% and mostly on the tanks, nice turnaround.  3 of the 4 times it sat an initial target, that target was you.  Nothing wrong w/ here w/ the damage being so erratic. DS less than 2x per minute and SS only 4x.  SS is not a factor here, again because of the damage, I see you had it ready for the last phase.

 

Juggs:

An issue here is one that requires attention across all fight except The Fallen, Rapture.  If you do not have Ingela's Rapture Addon, I really suggest getting before you raid next.  You are handcapping yourself immensely by not tracking your Rapture procs.  This is what I'm seeing on your kills  Fallen missed 2, Noru only procced 9, Sha only procced 5, Juggs only procced 9.  This a whole lot of mana you are leaving on the table during the encounter.  This is definitely your answer if you every drop Solace.  Juggs and Sha were the only fights were you spent most of the fight below half mana and increasing these procs will allow you to be more free w/ your casting.  Even if you are only getting the free PWS out of the Rapture.  There are other threads on this forum about the importance of tracking your Lucidity LMG procs with Weakauras (getting more pws and L90 casts).  At minimum, (and I think you are better than that and your logs support you), using PWS for Rapture on LMG procs will net you positive mana and increase your output on every fight. 

 

As I mentioned before you are doing a great job but above all else, Rapture/LMG tracking needs to be at the top of your list going forward.  Brutal has a sticky thread with the WA in it at the top of the forums if you do not have it already.  The extra and free PWS combined w/ adding to your almost non existent Rapture will push your output through roof and you'll be 2 healing everything when you get it nailed down.  I have faith that w/ the attention you've shown to your uptimes being applied to LMG and Rapture you'll be significantly more dominant from this point on.

 

 

Rhoanbirch, sent you a PM as well.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Gwenymph

[Rhoanbirch 5]

As I said in my PM, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I was using a weak aura to track rapture, obviously I wasn't watching to well. I have downloaded the addon, I think it will be very helpful. I will work on my PoM and SS.