Malkorok HM

[Pandacho 286]

Hello guys.

We are still stuck on Malkorok HM, mostly due to exploding voids and people staying in Breath, in my opinion, but i'm starting to wonder, if we (healers) are missing something.

We doing it with two healers - resto sham and disc priest and two tanks - pal and war.

We tried 3-heal setup - it was awful, but our RL wants to give it one more try, 'cos people continue to die and the blame slowly drifts towards the healers

Yesterday we got a new issue - tanks started to die and nobody could figure out what's going wrong. It looks like they lose the green shield in a sec and immediately are hited (by Malkorok?) for 50% of HP. We all tried to find something in logs - found nothing.

 

To save the time: we tried 3-healing - it was really bad, we tried both (me and disc) to shield the raid on start / only me / only disc. Our priest tried different builds - Atonement and "normal" healing, i tried every setup of talents and glyphs  - it's just all the same.

We never have any problem in the first 1-1.5 minutes, but after... it just all messed up.

 

Maybe you'll find something, what i'm missing in the logs.

 

Yesterday tries:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3jkzpndwg4npgswi/

 

Tries before a week:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-w1ul8ts77tfwmt1o/

Edited April 9, 2014 by Trollsha

[Stoove 347]

I'm also progressing on HC Malkorok at the moment, so I know what it's like! We're getting pretty frustrated for the same reasons, so keep going.

 

If your group is dying to avoidable mechanics, don't accept any kind of blame for the healing. You cannot carry failure on that fight.

 

Now, what you can do to improve. I don't entirely know since I haven't killed him either yet, but I tend to find that I'm running the Riptide glyph and running a RT-GHW-GHW rotation for spot healing.

 

The Riptide glyph is awesome for this fight, especially because you can get 10 Riptides running before the fight. Once I have that, my opener goes like this (7sec countdown to the pulle);

 

1. Refresh one Riptide
2. Unleash Elements
3. Drop Stormlash
4. Cast Healing Rain on the stacked raid
5. Pop Ascendance and Heroism (boss is now engaged)
6. Cast Chain Heals as the raid spreads out

That gets everyone topped pretty much immediately, using only one cooldown. Save all other cooldowns for later on in the fight; I tend to pop HTT when we go into the second phase. That allows you to pop some extra bubbles and not be penalized for it.

 

Any other tips that anyone can come up with?

[Storm 426]

If you touch an orb your shield instantly drops regardless of how big it was, and you take something like 200k damage. If a tank touches an orb Malkorok is probably going to kill them shortly afterwards, or at the very least they'll be left with very low HP before you build a new shield on them.

 

The puddles are the most important mechanic of the entire fight. I tell every group I've ever run with the same thing. "I don't care what your dps is on malkorok, don't miss a puddle". after the first blood rage I usually say the same thing again. at that point I don't care if half the raid is literally standing around waiting for puddles to spawn, just don't miss them.

 

The only other important mechanic which is new in heroic is the add. It needs to be taunted by tanks so it doesn't root your range and cause them to miss a puddle.

[Hybrys 199]

I was trying to look at your logs to find your tank dying problem, but I can't find anything particularly bad.  For a couple of attempts their stacks got a little too high, so they should be more aggressively swapping.

 

The puddles are the most important mechanic as mentioned.  You fix that, you get a kill.  2 heal, 3 heal, doesn't particularly matter.

[Pandacho 286]

Thanks, guys 

For Stoove:

I always keep Riptide glyph for SoO fights and was keeping the Chain Glyph too, but yesterday decided to try Chain spamming without this glyph. It feels a little better, but i think that it's more a feeling, than any real difference, i did not check the logs to see the difference yet. And i use a SWG as a third one for this fight. 

 

About the fight opening.

We do not use the Stormlash from the very start, because people are running to their places in the first seconds and i think that it's kinda waste - it works from the damaging abilities and in the first 10 sec. of the fight raid is not in full dps focus yet. So i use it with the Hero, when everyone already in their places (6-10 sec from the start).

At first tries we both (me and disc priest) were shielding the raid, but then we paid attention that it was a waste too - i can solo push about 1KK HPS in the first seconds (here for example http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-w1ul8ts77tfwmt1o/sum/healingDone/?s=90&e=271), so we tried me solo shielding the raid on the start.

What i was doing:

1. Casting my Earth Elem with +10% to heal 3 sec before the pull

2. Casting Ascendance just before the pull

3. HST + HR

4. Spamming Chains, while Ascendance is active

Actually it was enough to get green shields to everybody with the help of the "normal" healing from the disc (without his CDs).

I tried to blanket the raid with the Riptide before the start, but can't say that it's a big help. So now i Riptide only tanks, melee druid and myself before the start and chain heal from one of them.

Our disc was using his CDs after the first Smash and i used my 4T16 bonus when i felt it right. Our druid use Simbiosis on Shadow Priest, so we get two Tranquils, which are chain casted from the start of the phase two. And about 10 sec before the end of the phase 2, our disc starts to build the new shields with SS and IF. I use my HTT on the start of the second phase 1 to finish the shields and the other CDs when it needed.

 

But after one reset we figured that we just waste the disc's SS and IF on start, because they are not working in shield phase, while on start my CD performance "eats" his and we get overhealing with wasted useful CDs.

So now we are doing this different:

10 sec. before the fight starts, disc build the shields and i only help him, riptiding the raid and dropping HST+HR and spamming Chains. 

I use my Ascendance and 4T16 bonus CDs during phase 1 and not from the start. So now our hps divided more smooth and i think we'll stick to this tactic.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Trollsha

[Hybrys 199]

Spirit Shell is a rather ineffective CD for this fight, just because it's based around absorbs and nullifies Crits from the priest.  Why not save that for the Blood Rage phases, when the absorb is most valuable?

 

I'd continue to open with Ascend, with the Priest IF PoHing one group, and you specifically RT/chaining another.  Makes sense if you have a group of melee + tanks, and the PoH is hitting the scattering ranged group.

 

Do remember that your HST will always heal the lowest target in range.  This can work against you, especially on Malkorok.  Because of that, I typically run AG, and use that in the Blood Rage phase, while letting the other healer take a break.  (Which, in this case, would allow your priest to simply blanket SS PoHs while you handle the brunt of the damage.)

Edited April 9, 2014 by Hybrys

[Pandacho 286]

Are you saying, Hybrys, that building shields with SS before the fight starts is not really effective?

Edited April 9, 2014 by Trollsha

[Pandacho 286]

Do remember that your HST will always heal the lowest target in range.  This can work against you, especially on Malkorok.  Because of that, I typically run AG...

I tried AG yesterday, but on the first phase it's no use, while my hps was much lower then normal, so i dropped the idea.

But i can give it another try on the Blood Rage phases. Thanks :)

[Stoove 347]

I will see your 1.25M HPS and raise you another 0.25M! Here is a log of (23) wipes we had one night on him, and you can see that when I execute it well I easily pass 1.5M HPS at the start  ;P  We've found that if I don't get that right we basically wipe right off the bat, so it seems to be important (at least for us).

 

I haven't figured out a good way to use the elementals yet, I'll be giving them a try tomorrow night.  :)

[Hybrys 199]

Are you saying, Hybrys, that building shields with SS before the fight starts is not really effective?

I'm saying that SS at any time during the Miasma phases is ineffective, because it doesn't do effective healing which would increase their absorbs at a more significant rate.

 

It is just my opinion.  With good usage, it could be effective for both the fight smash and the Blood Rage phase.  It is a clear reduction in throughput, though.

 

I tried AG yesterday, but on the first phase it's no use, while my hps was much lower then normal, so i dropped the idea.

But i can give it another try on the Blood Rage phases. Thanks 

AG has the same pitfalls as HST, which is that it intelligently heals the lowest HP target.  They also both show in your logs as 100% effective healing, even when someones shield is maxed, so your results can be quite skewed.  But AG+CH spam lets you burst a lot of healing during Blood Rage, and save your Ascend/SWG for bumping shields after the Rage.

 

I will see your 1.25M HPS and raise you another 0.25M! Here is a log of (23) wipes we had one night on him, and you can see that when I execute it well I easily pass 1.5M HPS at the start  ;P  We've found that if I don't get that right we basically wipe right off the bat, so it seems to be important (at least for us).

 

I haven't figured out a good way to use the elementals yet, I'll be giving them a try tomorrow night.  

I use PE, and just use the elementals for damage.  Fire with Lust off the bat, Earth any other time, and Fire again around 10%..  As long as your group is able to make it below 40-45% before the first Blood Rage, you could really use them whenever.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Hybrys

[Pandacho 286]

I will see your 1.25M HPS and raise you another 0.25M! Here is a log of (23) wipes we had one night on him, and you can see that when I execute it well I easily pass 1.5M HPS at the start  ;P  We've found that if I don't get that right we basically wipe right off the bat, so it seems to be important (at least for us).

 

I haven't figured out a good way to use the elementals yet, I'll be giving them a try tomorrow night.  

 

Okay! here is 1.35M and i'll raise your 1.5M next time, when i WILL use Unleash and Riptide the raid  http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-w1ul8ts77tfwmt1o/sum/healingDone/?s=90&e=271

 

As for the Elems, i would suggest to use Earth Elem with the talent before you start shielding. So you can get 2-in-1: +10% healing for the shields and 20% to your damage mitigation in the first minute's mess

Edited April 9, 2014 by Trollsha

[Pandacho 286]

I'm saying that SS at any time during the Miasma phases is ineffective, because it doesn't do effective healing which would increase their absorbs at a more significant rate.

We figured exactly the same and therefore our disc priest shields the raid before the start of fight and before the Blood rage ends, while i use my CDs in the first phases. We don't have any problem  with healing through the Blood Rage - our pala tank lives it by himself and the raid stay spread. 2 Tranquils and standard healing always was enough for us.

 

 

AG has the same pitfalls as HST, which is that it intelligently heals the lowest HP target.  They also both show in your logs as 100% effective healing, even when someones shield is maxed, so your results can be quite skewed.  But AG+CH spam lets you burst a lot of healing during Blood Rage, and save your Ascend/SWG for bumping shields after the Rage.

 

Will AG still work good enough if the raid stay spread for the Blood Rage? I'm not sure...

[Hybrys 199]

Will AG still work good enough if the raid stay spread for the Blood Rage? I'm not sure...

I use AG as a DPS from the wall, and it's a consistent big healer.  At the very least, it heals 8/10 players as they clear orbs.

[Pandacho 286]

I will try AG in our next raid.

Btw, guys, what are you using normally for healing solo target on Malkorok HM - GHW or HS?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Trollsha

[Hybrys 199]

Depends on your comp and who's doing the solo tanking.  If I had the mana, I'd probably HS spam.  Last time I did it, I maintained EShield, Unleashed HR, and just spammed GHW because I had a pally healer and pally tank, with the pally healer spamming his big heal as well.

 

Pally tank means they hit their 50% reduc, and a 20% later on, and the pally healer means a 30% from Sac.  That combo with the reduc trinket and the tank's EF propping him up, made it a very patterned manner of incoming damage, and not requiring a heal each swing.

[kitsu 55]

my group 2 healed it and used soakers. we marked all the ranged and then if a ranged had paths in their zone that would be trouble to get around in a hurry they call out their color so a soaker will come by and clear for them. what classes do you have soaking orbs? you may have to have everyone use a mit cd and then touch a few orbs on cd, or you have to have designated soakers. we had a rogue and a dk doing orbs and they could get 6-8 per cd. the priest was giving the dk feathers and the rogue had his own speed burst.

 

the only thing i blamed the healers for was the popup that spawns an ooze. if that timer is coming out and someone has zero shield, theyre boned for the rest of the fight if they manage to live. since vuhdo by default shows full shield and no shield as the same, that can go unnoticed from the healers. even with half shield the popup and landing shouldnt take much of a persons hp, so if someone dies to that, it is on the healers.

 

mysterious tank deaths were often from kiting the boss away from teh center of the room for breath or a ranged running somewhere and spawning an orb near a tank. the player clump can cover up an orb spawn and if the tank eats an orb they can get doomed pretty fast.

 

also note, that if someone misses a pool they will be the ones to live. so if a pool is missed and clears a tanks shield, theyre probably gonna hit the floor. if a pool is missed early even the other pool standers can live but the loss of shield can put a tank in the danger zone.

[Stoove 347]

Soakers are great and all, but that's no excuse for others not to soak something. I get between 5-10 myself on that phase while Healing Tide Totem is down.

 

 

since vuhdo by default shows full shield and no shield as the same

 

No it doesn't. It has always showed the full buff on my bars.

 

Well, until I removed it.

[Pandacho 286]

To kitsu:

 

1. We have assigned soakers - pala-tank with rocket boots and feral druid with Dispersion from Simbiosis - they clean before the Blood Rage phase. Rest of people soak what they can with their personal CDs.

2. I never have a problem with the shields state, because i changed their color - "no shield" has a default color and "strong shield" is blue. So i always can see the difference between green-red-brown-blue.

3. The part about kiting the boss away from the center i will show to our tanks, thanks

Edited April 10, 2014 by Trollsha

[Hybrys 199]

If you could log to Warcraft Logs with the Advanced Combat Logging on your next night, I could try to do analysis on who's slacking, and what changes might be beneficial to you.

[kitsu 55]

Soakers are great and all, but that's no excuse for others not to soak something. I get between 5-10 myself on that phase while Healing Tide Totem is down.

 

we have the rogue and dk soaking 6-8 orbs every 30 sec or so, for the whole fight. everyone soaks during bloodphase.

[Pandacho 286]

If you could log to Warcraft Logs with the Advanced Combat Logging on your next night, I could try to do analysis on who's slacking, and what changes might be beneficial to you.

sure i can, thanks!

i forgot to do it in the last raid, but still have logs from our earlier attempts.

Here we go: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fNp2AtQLgcF6MDGa

[Hybrys 199]

Fatal Strike management looks good.

 

DPS looks good, though Epi could work on their puddle soaking.  Purely mobile DPS only soaking 2?  Great luck, or awful awareness.

 

Attempt 16 from that log shows that Daz is taking very spiky damage.  He took 1.1mil (including a single 650k hit) within 3 seconds.  More aggressively using CDs is the real solution to that.

 

Attempt 9 seems some similar issues.  I'm looking at their death log.  Zel eats an orb, and loses ~250k as a result. They then lose another ~200k to lack of healing while tanking.  Then, they then take an implosion, but don't get healed back up for the melee they take 2.5 sec later.  Same thing happens again later, with their shield being eaten by an absorb (Shield Barrier), and not getting a heal.

 

Things I'd change:

 

Tanks should never, ever be soaking implosions.  It's a bad idea, increasing movement, increasing risk of running over an orb, and decreasing their shields, which they need for the melees.  Remember that Fatal Strike also increases the damage tanks take from the implosions.

 

Daz needs to focus on being more proactive than reactive.  Better SotR uptimes, spending less HoPo overwriting their EFs.

 

I think healers should split up, and focus on a specific job, while also maintaining the raid's shields.  Set one of you two on tank healing, and the other on raid healing.  I think you should be the one for this job, esp with Earth Shield and GHW being as efficient as it is.

 

IF your priest is up for it, I know several that run Holy (Standard and Renew builds) for that fight and put up really solid numbers doing it (250-300k HPS).  Holy has the better throughput, and as mentioned already, preventative measures aren't as effective as pure throughput because 90% of the fight is preventative. That said, Disc is absolutely viable.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Hybrys

[Stoove 347]

Heroic Malkorok just killed our end! For what it's worth, here's my effective healing breakdown for the kill;

 

HST - 22% - 12.5M

Riptide - 19% - 11M

GHW - 15% - 9M (41 casts)

Ascendance - 10% - 6M

Healing Surge - 9% - 5M (27 casts)

 

I ran with Rushing Streams for that fight, which I found alright (though not predictably useful), saved mana in comparison to Ancestral Guidance.

 

The biggest change I made really was to watch which people were soaking the puddles and pre-cast heals on them. Time it right and you can refill their shield much faster.

 

There's still no excuse for failing on mechanics though :)

[Hybrys 199]

Congrats Stoove!

 

I'd be really curious to see your HST's true effective healing.  Logs won't differentiate between creating an absorb and overhealing the absorb though.

 

Love the Riptide blanket.  Right behind HST in a 10m is some pretty good uptime.

[Pandacho 286]

The biggest change I made really was to watch which people were soaking the puddles and pre-cast heals on them. Time it right and you can refill their shield much faster.

Gratz with the kill, Stoove

 

We'll make more tries on Sunday...

 

Btw, where are your ChainH and HR in logs?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Trollsha