PBoI does affect Frost Mage

[Sennin 0]

https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5541-major-pbi-bug-anyone-that-uses-an-amp-trinket-must-read/

 

Just confirmed this happens with Frost.  Went naked, put on PBoI first and lost the haste from PBoI.  

 

Something to be aware of as this is BiS for us.

[Kver 65]

Reading that thread I wonder how this is relevant at all. It's not a major bug at all? :P

[Sennin 0]

I think it is a bug personally.  It should not be snapshotting based on the time it was equipped.  Seems like a bad way to do, and I doubt most people to reequip it every time they change a piece of gear out.  

[Kver 65]

Well I suppose it should just refresh whenever items change, not sure why they opted to go with such an approach.

[Sennin 0]

Right, I don't think this is intended to work this way...thus it is a bug.  Not an earth shattering/crippling one, but at the very least one people should be aware of, especially since PBoI does make a quite difference and is BiS.

[Kver 65]

Right, I don't think this is intended to work this way...thus it is a bug.  Not an earth shattering/crippling one, but at the very least one people should be aware of, especially since PBoI does make a quite difference and is BiS.

If I am to be painfully honest, this might very well not be a bug but just shitty coding. I don't think it's supposed to do anything else, we'll probably have to wait until 6.0 for this to be fixed. 

[Akraen 230]

Must be my UI, but I don't see this at all. My stats appear to update each time, but I use a pretty customized shadowmageUI.

[voltaa 16]

So I just tried this out as both Arc and Fire if you switch your armors it also changes the stat weights accordingly (has to be a new armor can't be a refresh), while this may be annoying for arc/frost, this is straight up abusable by fire if I am thinking about this correctly. So if it snapshots percentages based on what gear you are wearing, would it not be possible to have a full haste/mastery heavy set, put on your PBOI then switch out into your crit gear to get added benefit? or am I just crazy?

 

Edit: totally abusable by Arc/Frost, I just put on my BBoY, swapped armors twice then put on my KTT and gained about 100 mastery and haste from what I originally had with KTT.

Edited April 27, 2014 by voltaa

[Fouton 266]

Any change in secondary stats recalculated the amp. It's abusable in certain situations, but in raid you won't get much additional power from it.

[Kver 65]

I think "abusable" implies that it is more powerful than it actually is. I'd definitely report it but there is no need to fuss over it.

[voltaa 16]

I think "abusable" implies that it is more powerful than it actually is. I'd definitely report it but there is no need to fuss over it.

It just depends how far you think the term "abusable" should be taken, having enough stats that would essentially turn one of your normal pieces into a heroic piece? That seems like a pretty big deal to me especially coming from my current standpoint where I am progressing on blackfuse on a clearly undergeared Mage who has only done normal once, I am going to use every little advantage that I can get, I'm going to gather up all my offset gear and before the pull, every piece gear that I can swap out for a haste/mastery piece will be swapped in for that extra bit of stats.  While for farm this really isn't an issue since we all overgear the shit out of the instance anyways, if a whole raid team does this for progress, that could be the difference between a kill and a 1% wipe, stats now, better play later.  I am for sure going to try to get a healer amp trinket on my main for ranks as well.

[Fouton 266]

Note: Having 2 amp trinkets won't allow you to break it, since both amps are recalculated when either one is equipped or unequipped (so says another Icy Veins user).

 

It could make a 1% wipe, but it's hard to say. Also, unless you're glyphing Icy Veins, the spell haste buff from it will ruin the gained stats from trying to abuse it. Same with hunter buffs (reapplied every 45 or 90 seconds, depending on buff). It's unlikely that you will get much mileage out of it, but yes you can get some use from the bug. It's easy to get the bonus stats and work on skill at the same time, as you say, so it's worth doing if you have the tools.

[Kver 65]

Note: Having 2 amp trinkets won't allow you to break it, since both amps are recalculated when either one is equipped or unequipped (so says another Icy Veins user).

 

It could make a 1% wipe, but it's hard to say. Also, unless you're glyphing Icy Veins, the spell haste buff from it will ruin the gained stats from trying to abuse it. Same with hunter buffs (reapplied every 45 or 90 seconds, depending on buff). It's unlikely that you will get much mileage out of it, but yes you can get some use from the bug. It's easy to get the bonus stats and work on skill at the same time, as you say, so it's worth doing if you have the tools.

I would love to abuse this bug and then have it all fade away due to a 0.1 sec input lag ruining my absolutely perfect pull. It is so unpractical that it hardly warrants a mention. Not sure why Locky blew this up to this extent.

[Sennin 0]

Kver, I really don't understand your hate for this and Locky's thread.  I could do without the theorycrafting on how to abuse this, but Locky and I brought it up in the context of it removing the amp % from PBoI if you switch gear in a certain order.  That is a big deal considering it is BiS trinket and provides our biggest single source of haste.  If you don't care, great...good for you.  But people are still progressing and care about min/maxing.  If you don't care just look elsewhere, but don't berate people for discussing something that is a problem.  

[Akraen 230]

Kver, I really don't understand your hate for this and Locky's thread.  I could do without the theorycrafting on how to abuse this, but Locky and I brought it up in the context of it removing the amp % from PBoI if you switch gear in a certain order.  That is a big deal considering it is BiS trinket and provides our biggest single source of haste.  If you don't care, great...good for you.  But people are still progressing and care about min/maxing.  If you don't care just look elsewhere, but don't berate people for discussing something that is a problem.  

 

I don't see any berating out of him.

 

How can you abuse this? I don't really see how you can. Frost mage already maximizes haste and mastery, so there would be no way to game it to get some differential gain unless maaaaaybe you threw on non-tier in 2 slots, put on PBoI, then swap back.

 

Still, I don't even see what you guys are talking about because my character sheet updates in real-time when I equip/unequip gear. I tested it extensively and never was able to see the bug.

[Sennin 0]

He has been questioning this thread since I posted.  Now he is calling out Locky for bringing it up at all.  

 

I have been able to duplicate the results Locky posted in his vid.  At the very least it is something people might want to be aware of.  As for the theorycraft around it I don't know and don't really want to take part in exploiting a bug, but again...that is not why I (or Locky for that matter) posted this in the first place.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Sennin

[Kver 65]

He has been questioning this thread since I posted.  Now he is calling out Locky for bringing it up at all.  

 

I have been able to duplicate the results Locky posted in his vid.  At the very least it is something people might want to be aware of.  As for the theorycraft around it I don't know and don't really want to take part in exploiting a bug, but again...that is not why I (or Locky for that matter) posted this in the first place.

Except apparently what also happens is that it refreshes once your stats change. Now, I'm just saying, but the meta gem demands a haste calculation, which means that something that should theoretically proc instantly on pull will reset the stat 'gain'. 

 

Which means it's just a bug which should be reported. I also vehemently disapprove of the idea of contemplating means to exploiting on these forums.

[Akraen 230]

He has been questioning this thread since I posted.  Now he is calling out Locky for bringing it up at all.  

 

I have been able to duplicate the results Locky posted in his vid.  At the very least it is something people might want to be aware of.  As for the theorycraft around it I don't know and don't really want to take part in exploiting a bug, but again...that is not why I (or Locky for that matter) posted this in the first place.

 

Questioning is not berating. He has every right (as do you) to question anything. Part of our role as moderators is also upholding and encouraging Blizzard policy within their games. If we in any way were seen to be encouraging exploitative behavior it would potentially tarnish our image and Icy Veins' integrity.

 

There's nothing I can do about Locky or what happens on warlock forums, but Kver, Oltier, and I are going to try to keep the mage forums clean and exploit-free.

[Sennin 0]

Berate was a poor word choice, but a moderator's questioning on why a post exists usually draws some defense.  

 

Apologies, for using berate.  

 

These forums are great, and that is a reflection on you guys.  In general you guys do a great job.  My issue with Kver is that from the start he seemed to be questioning the validity and importance of the bug and the existence of this thread as well as Locky's original.  I disagree with his assessment, and got defensive, because I have been able duplicate the issue, think that it could effect players performance, and is genuinely a pretty big bug.

 

I 100% agree that we should not be discussing this for the purpose of exploitation.  Kver's questioning started before that part of the discussion.  And his questioning subsequent to the "theorycrafting" called out Locky who, to my knowledge, like myself did not create his thread to try to exploit...we merely wanted people to be aware of the bug so they did not lose out on a large haste source.

 

Thank you for the job all of you do.  This is the best source for Mage info I have found.

[Oltier 471]

Thank you for the compliment, we try out best. :)

 

I hope this misunderstanding/argument is settled now. I am happy it worked out well after all and I did not have to interfere.

I also don't think that the intention was to make anyone exploit the game, but rather to let players know to be aware of this.

 

Overall, I would like to ask anyone who could reproduce the bug to immediately report it to Blizzard with a detailed list of what you have done to make it happen, instead of arguing whether this is a bug/exploit/DPS boost/whatsoever.

[voltaa 16]

Thank you for the job all of you do.  This is the best source for Mage info I have found.

 

I am truly offended by this comment.

[Methusula 17]

I am truly offended by this comment.

I hope this is said in jest.

This is the one forum where I have been able to go to avoid the cesspool that other forums have become. As long as moderation is fair and intelligent, I don't see why this can't be the place to go for meaningful mage conversation.