wow The Real Reason So Many Get Declined in Mythic+.

[Starym 3,800]

 

One of the main frustrations for PUG Mythic+ players has always been finding groups, and there's a feeling going around that it's worse than ever before. With very selective and demanding requirements looming over your head, from Raider.IO score to a "meta" spec and more, players are getting increasingly surprised at group makers' demands and what they decline, as the standards are seeming incredibly high.

However, there's a pretty simple explanation for these seemingly very unfair and unreasonable requirements: supply and demand.

As you'll see from a few examples below, having a key, especially a higher level one, gets you SO many applications that even with the highest, craziest, most unreasonable standards, you'll still have plenty of choice. All of the below were taken very quickly (minutes) after a key was listed.

Source: tetchip

Source: ntinglasts4evermson.

But it's not just the higher level keys this happens at:

Source : yogiho2.

There's plenty more examples of the above to go around, but you get the idea. Obviously this is worst for DPS players as the supply is extremely higher than the demand, but with the more valuable keys from more desirable dungeons, even tanks and healers will be lining up to get into a group. Another factor for the insanely high DPS supply is the treatment tanks and healers get in groups, as most of the time, they get all the blame and a whole lot of toxicity. Combine that with the significantly harder gameplay and very high levels of stress because of the higher responsibility for those 2 roles, and you get many just re-rolling DPS, further skewing the numbers.

And so before you get too down on yourself for having a hard time getting into a group, remember it's just a matter of numbers. You should still aim to improve yourself, and obviously getting a relatively stable group, or at least a few players together in your PUG travels is your best bet, but the important thing to remember is that there's just SO many players vying for those spots that getting declined isn't really a big deal at all.

And perhaps the most important thing to learn from this? Value your own key immensely! What do you think of the Mythic+ application process? Anything you'd change about it?

[Ragingwolf 310]

Usually on the weekends I'll spend up to an hour and half applying to 9's and 10's as DPS when there are not a whole lot of Guildies online.  If I do not get accepted into a group I end up working on an alt instead.  Been enjoying Demonology Warlock lately in Torghast, open world content, and small keys.  But to the topic at hand what I've seen lately are players buying their runs then later set up groups themselves and do not understand the affixes, the dungeon, and or mechanics themselves.   Then they either quit after the first pull on trash or the group falls apart when the synergy of the group is just not there and fail to make the requirements at certain check points.  Or my all time favorite are the players that watch the MDI and truly believe that's how you need to run dungeons on live.

[geofferson 33]

I'm an ilvl 209 Sub Rogue and I usually get around 5 rejections for every 1 invite for M+ pugs.

 

My advice?  Get used to rejection, its part of life, it sucks seeing decline a bunch of times, but its life.  Best thing you can do is grow some thicker skin and get used to it.  Sometimes you are in the Meta and sometimes you're not.

Edited January 25, 2021 by geofferson

[Calorat 78]

Just another example of why the Mythic+ system is awful

[Lunamaru 1]

There is a very easy way to get into groups and it doesn't matter what your IO score or gear is and put simply just get your own key and make your own group...can't get declined from your own key 😛

[Nobleshield 15]

20 minutes ago, Calorat said:

Just another example of why the Mythic+ system is awful

It really is.  They took the worst parts of dungeons, that everyone hated, and put them at the forefront because they wanted to try and turn it into an e-esport they could monetize.  It's a *filtered* system that belongs more in Diablo than in WoW.  It was fine when it was Challenge Mode.

[fordfiesta 1]

It's not like this for Sanguine Depths or Necrotic Wake keys.  I've waited in groups for 15's for those for an hour before to fill, getting as low as just one very low io + ilvl app every couple minutes, while having a 1300 io 5/10M lead.

109 apps must have been for a Mists key.

imo the second biggest problem this xpac (obviously the first is class balance, anyone who doesn't admit there's a problem there is lying), is lack of key variety, followed by dungeon difficulty disparity.  I've been in groups more times than I can count where EVERYONE in the group that had a 14 or 15 had a Necrotic Wake key, and I have over 50 friends that use Astral Keys and have never once seen a Mists key on that list.  I've pushed keys with groups for hours where we've gotten nothing but SD, NW, and Spires, all night.  Just bad luck probably, but it would be ideal for all of the dungeon keys to actually rotate instead of being on a per key randomizer ... so that an individual pushing keys could eventually do KSM on their own.

[Migol 433]

I for one don't mind the Mythic+ system as it is.    Yes, Pug'ing is hard...but so is Pug'ing mythic raids and such.   Mythic+ is supposed to be a high-end activity that you form a team to do.   That there's an option to get strangers out of nowhere as an alternative is just that, an alternative.    It's still wildly more efficient to make some friends and practice with them, both in raiding and in Mythic+.

[CTEKK 12]

39 minutes ago, Migol said:

I for one don't mind the Mythic+ system as it is.    Yes, Pug'ing is hard...but so is Pug'ing mythic raids and such.   Mythic+ is supposed to be a high-end activity that you form a team to do.   That there's an option to get strangers out of nowhere as an alternative is just that, an alternative.    It's still wildly more efficient to make some friends and practice with them, both in raiding and in Mythic+.

That's my take.. As a dh.. Dps. I have decent Rio now but mainly because I run 15s with guildies and some fillers and it works great. One of the best m+ players I played with plays Pala dps and he beats fotm constantly. 

[Mishmish 65]

1 hour ago, Migol said:

I for one don't mind the Mythic+ system as it is.    Yes, Pug'ing is hard...but so is Pug'ing mythic raids and such.   Mythic+ is supposed to be a high-end activity that you form a team to do.   That there's an option to get strangers out of nowhere as an alternative is just that, an alternative.    It's still wildly more efficient to make some friends and practice with them, both in raiding and in Mythic+.

Mostly agreed, but i think the punishing aspects of it (key degrading) could stand to be looked at. Perhaps a key degrade only if you fail it 4 times a row? Perhaps not at all, but simply stays as is unless you beat the timer like today? 

The punishment and loss of time is why groups are so selective and why rio is used, the content itself is challenging, but 15+ or below isnt a crazy challenge like high ranked arena or mythic raids. I cant blame blizz for trying to make m+ less lucrative cuzz it pretty much demolished hc loot in bfa and legion, but i do think maybe they went a bit too far. 

 

 

As for tips for newcomers: make your own grouos, use rio to find out people who have xp in a key atleast 1 level lower than what you're running, and preferably several timed runs in general in that bracket (all instantly viewable in rio addon when you hover mouse over player), and have fun pushing your key. There's  no rush, this patch will stay with us for a while. 

[ResoWho 68]

well the listed key got a tank (and a heal). its pretty easy to find people if you got a tank in your grp. saturday we looked for a tank and a dd for a +13 sanguine depths key. while our healer (pala) had the lowest r.io score of the grp (950) and the rest (dh and fire mage) having 1k-1,1k we didnt find any tank and just a few dds joined the queue. at the end we gave up and looked for an open grp with a tank and joined that. luckily the tank took us with him and we played the keys after also with him

Edited January 25, 2021 by ResoWho

[Bobbis 208]

I think the biggest issue is the lack of tanks/healers. Tanks mainly. It's a much unloved role due to the extra stress involved, especially with prideful. Personally I like doing it, but getting so pissed off with planning a run, then have dps *filtered* pull or even intentionally pull something off plan, and skewing the %. Even simple things like the houndmaster patrol in HoA beween 2nd and 3rd shard, after the drop. Last 3 runs someone pulled it, likely trying to run from a sprite rather than stunning it, or just taking it like a champ for 2s.

 

Although god forbid you try a non meta route / not what's on rio...

 

Though for me the biggest issue, and this has happened in Legion and BfA too, is the disparity between an easy dungeon, like Mists, and say SD... Especially on horrible weeks for cramped spaces like this week. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Bobbis
added para

[Nobleshield 15]

1 hour ago, Bobbis said:

Although god forbid you try a non meta route / not what's on rio...

This right here is the problem.  Tanking is barely tanking now with the extra nonsense they add to make things "hard".  It's like this team doesn't realize that you can add too much and take away from it by doing so.

[SwordartL 0]

Nothing to be changed. be social make friends,join guild,join community, and play with like minded individuals simple as that.

As someone making keys my group= my rules.

There is endless army of dps i can pick whoever i want they are basically disposable and if do few with same i add them and boom made dps friend for another runs nextime i first ask friends if they want to do keys then guildies then community pug is my last choices and most times i have full premade/just miss 1 dps from pug which i take the best because why not ?

+ People want to play with like minded individuals and if you are solo and only solo that is your choice you have to be antisocial and toxic to not make friends to play with/not being in guild in WoW.

Simple as that supply and demand.

[Nastybirdy 33]

I've stopped even applying for mythic.  As a DPS it's basically pointless right now.  Decline after decline after decline regardless of which key it is.  I've got better things to do with my time.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Nastybirdy

[Nobleshield 15]

3 hours ago, Nastybirdy said:

I've stopped even applying for mythic.  As a DPS it's basically pointless right now.  Decline after decline after decline regardless of which key it is.  I've got better things to do with my time.

It's not worth it as a tank either since people expect you to just parrot whatever garbage Dratnos or whoever says is the only way to do a dungeon, or people rage at you for deviating from the groupthink.

[Prophet001 598]

I don't understand why people don't run their own keys.

They can run it till it's too high then just drop it back and keep running the same key as long as they want to.

 

I'm confused.

[Nobleshield 15]

18 minutes ago, Prophet001 said:

I don't understand why people don't run their own keys.

They can run it till it's too high then just drop it back and keep running the same key as long as they want to.

 

I'm confused.

Probably because peer pressure says that's not how you should do it, and you should constantly be pushing higher and higher or you're a baddie scrub.  Or sometthing.

[TryingNotToDie 1]

The one and only reason you get declined soooo much more than ever before in m+ is :

- Loot

Everyone does m+ for loot. But since blizzard in it's genius decided that failing a key deserved 1 loot for 5 players, the incentive to time key is sooo much higher now. That's it.

Well done blizzard, 35 anima is indeed worth the 30+ minutes of time I invested in your game.

 

For those still living in a cave, Ion Hazzikostas stated that they removed RNG from the m+ loot system so we need less loot to balance things out....

Really ??? How did he ended up game director if he is that stupid. Giving choice on top on RNG is still *filtered* RNG....

 

[SidonisAntares 290]

Apologies to the small chunk of decent players that exist on these two realms, but Ragnaros and Azralon are pretty much an auto-decline for me unless your IO shows that you're probably capable. Too many busted keys when running with players from those realms.

[Znifler 58]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:53 PM, Ragingwolf said:

Usually on the weekends I'll spend up to an hour and half applying to 9's and 10's as DPS when there are not a whole lot of Guildies online.  If I do not get accepted into a group I end up working on an alt instead.  Been enjoying Demonology Warlock lately in Torghast, open world content, and small keys.  But to the topic at hand what I've seen lately are players buying their runs then later set up groups themselves and do not understand the affixes, the dungeon, and or mechanics themselves.   Then they either quit after the first pull on trash or the group falls apart when the synergy of the group is just not there and fail to make the requirements at certain check points.  Or my all time favorite are the players that watch the MDI and truly believe that's how you need to run dungeons on live.

Well said! Though for the not finding groups part, I've figured that wasting time isn't something I have time to do - especially since it's so much to do in WoW. Thus, as a havoc DH mainly, for raids and dungs, I play vengeance since it gives more invites/faster que etc. Heck, this has made me like tank a lot (and do well too). If that doesn't work for M+, I rank up my own key. 

There is always a path that is faster and overall better if you do something about it, rather than waiting for something to happen by itself. 

[Ragingwolf 310]

2 hours ago, Znifler said:

Well said! Though for the not finding groups part, I've figured that wasting time isn't something I have time to do - especially since it's so much to do in WoW. Thus, as a havoc DH mainly, for raids and dungs, I play vengeance since it gives more invites/faster que etc. Heck, this has made me like tank a lot (and do well too). If that doesn't work for M+, I rank up my own key. 

There is always a path that is faster and overall better if you do something about it, rather than waiting for something to happen by itself. 

Out of the Vault this week I will have the following keys to play with during the week/weekend:

+10 Spires of Ascension on the DH 

+9 Spires of Ascension on the Warlock

+8 De Other Side on the Druid

We'll see if any of these get changed into a NW or PF to test the waters of the recent nerfs on these dungeons.

[MythicaVertro 0]

On 1/25/2021 at 8:39 PM, Lunamaru said:

There is a very easy way to get into groups and it doesn't matter what your IO score or gear is and put simply just get your own key and make your own group...can't get declined from your own key 😛

you can get kicked out of the group where you were the key holder of the dungeon 😞