Necromancer Rathma Army of the Dead

[Damien 1,514]

This thread is for comments about our Army of the Dead Rathma Necromancer build.

[Bubble181 14]

In the overview page, the Bonds of Clena in the gear list isn't a link to the item but just bolded text. Don't know if that's because the item isn't available yet and it's a placeholder, or because someone made a typo in the formatting 🙂 

[Guest Baripoca]

Im dying too easly when I have to use schyte to generate essence. and when mobs come to close when I use bone armor.

[Guest Boneyard96]

I have found better success using a hellfire amulet over squirts as well as putting Trag'Oul's Corroded Fang in the cube.

[Majikza 0]

I don't understand how this makes sense?  It has something in there that says curses last forever, but it doesn't seem to use any of the curse abilities?....

[Guest Pojambles]

7 hours ago, Majikza said:

I don't understand how this makes sense?  It has something in there that says curses last forever, but it doesn't seem to use any of the curse abilities?....

it has the rune on the scythe ability... but yeah I dont really get a lot of the choices in this build either..

[Guest Lewk]

7 hours ago, Majikza said:

I don't understand how this makes sense?  It has something in there that says curses last forever, but it doesn't seem to use any of the curse abilities?....

The "Cursed Scythe" skill rune for Grim Scythe provides the curses.

[Bubble181 14]

At higher levels, this build will focus on killing elites, and leave most others alive. Giving them a cursory swipe of your Cursed Scythe should mean you'll be keeping about 15-20% extra damage from this up. Doesn't work for a GR boss, of course.

But yes, the curses, and the poison skill choices, are things that are just fairly "general" necro suggestions. If there's no really synergistic weapon to cube, let's try and skill towards Poison and use Nayr's. If there's no need for a specific generator, just use Cursed Scythe. If there's no specific needed ring, Krysbin's. Etc.

It's a sign this build isn't quite complete yet, in my mind. There could really be better synergies with the proper items, but eh. I mean, Krysbin, Nayr's,etc are just such strong generic items for Necro's there's usually little point in using something else. Same reason every necro build has Dayntee's, unless they need the belt slot for Captain Crimson. 

[Deadset 108]

Rathma got the short end of the stick in the 2.7 updates, sadly. The changes throughout the PTR were meandering and it never really landed on its proper playstyle, even though it is somewhat viable even now. It feels an item and a multiplier short of its true potential, and the inexplicable removal of Bone Spirit at the last minute really doesn't help shake the unfinished feel of this rework.

[Guest Aurelias]

This build has 2 many flaws, ... Zei's gem makes u want to be as far from enemies as possible meanwhile Gogok's gem while using scythe as primary skill makes u wanna be as close as possible, so they countereachother. At the same time you use 2 passives for curses & only applicator of curses is your 15 % primary spell.  I recommend using this build only until u farm better one &  use Death Valley rune on Army of dead since it has bigger AOE radius, and u won't lack dmg anyways and Rigor Mortis passive instead of the curses one & maybe last stand. 

[Deadset 108]

Zei's is somewhat counterintuitive in that it grants its base multiplicative damage increase starting at the 0 yard (melee) range, instead of the indicated 10 yards. Surely there is a bigger bonus to attain the larger the distance, but it can be played around, i.e. you swing at a singular straggler enemy to keep up Gogok stacks, while you demolish the larger pack of clumped enemies that are further away with AotD.

I'd also like to point out the Physical damage version of the build that we have! There is indeed a strong alteration that uses the Death Valley rune. 🙂

[Guest Plinuckment]

I really want to like this build - I love the Physical variant visuals. Ever since they announced the rework, I was excited to be able to play something that isn't Bone Spear, which is really just a Poison wizard. An army of undead!

But I'm at GR115 and it's impossible to survive. So many enemies are instant death to this build - lacunis, lickers, winged assassins, succubi, blazed guardians, porcupines, impalers. Oftentimes when I zone in and I get a bunch of these mobs I have to quit out. I'm already fishing for rifts at 115. Squirt is just impossible to keep up, so I swapped out for Hellfire, Wisdom of Kalan, Haunted Visions, and put Esoteric in them. Still so squishy, especially at the start of a rift. I can't kill until I get Revive stacks, but I can't get Revive stacks until I kill! 

I run out of Essence quite often because skeletons would stop attacking randomly even with Jesseth, and Command Skeletons is expensive essence-wise.

Army cooldown doesn't always get sped up because many of my minions aren't attacking, they're just standing near me instead. Or they aren't attacking because they're melee revived minions and they're being blocked by other things.

So many elite affixes that just instantly kills - desecrator, mortar, thunderstorm, teleport, even some of the ones that you're theoretically supposed to run away from (poison, frozen, pulse, molten, etc). 

Even desirable open maps are dangerous due to being swarmed from all sides. Going with Dayntee's helps quite a bit, but that's also giving up a ton of damage from Crimson, both from 3pc and the CDR to be able to use Army more frequently.

What am I doing wrong? 

[Bubble181 14]

I'm not sure you're really doing something wrong - I'm struggling a bit, too.

Dropping Squirt's is porbably a good idea; I'm trying to find a second Unity at the moment to try that instead of CoE for more survivability.

This build is hyper-focussed on damage damage damage, as most are, but for people who aren't P2000 it may be very hard to play this style. I'm currently running Aquila's instead of Fate's Vow in the Cube - I'm sure this isn't viable for GR 120+ but where I am now I don't actually need the extra damage as much as I do more survivability. I don't know how you're playing ,but my Essence never drops for more than a second - instantly refilled with Grim Scythe. 

I kinda like the set, though I'd prefer more pet damage and less nuke dependence, but it feels like it still doesn't quite work. The Nayrs forces you to recast Revive the whole time, command your Skellies far too often, and use a less-desirable rune for AOTD. The Physical variation is better on that end, but tops out at a lower power level. 

One thing you may find helps is getting your Gogok up to HIGHJ levels. Dodge will help a lot with one-hit kills. And I use both the Passive Cheat Death and my Enchantress's Cheat Death  - I often need both. 

 

The build (and this is not a slight on Icy Veins but on the developers) just doens't feel like a whole. it's a bunch of bonusses combined that kinda work together. This results in a pet-build where the pet gem is the worst choice, a build that just never becomes fast because of the pets and the trouble ni getting rid of trash, that doesn't offer a lot of group value, isn't really survivable, and doesn't really do über damage. Not only does it not excell at anything, it semes to be doing most things only mediocre.
The Zunni WD is a much more fun pet build, where the pets actually deal damage, that can be more easily adapted to speed farm and is then a LOT faster; it also deals with bosses better, and is more survivable. But I WANT a Necro build that hides behind a wall of skeletons and revived corpses and just peaks out on occasion to throw a nuke. Some sort of build that would combine with the Mask of Scarlet Death to move damage over to the pets themselves, for example, could really create something interesting. but they'll never give us  that - such a build would probably be too easy to bot.

 

[Bubble181 14]

Addendum to the above: while Aquila works, after now  trying Fate's Vow, yeah, it's more important 😄

I do prefer the workings of the Physical variation, by the way. Far from perfect but it feels more like a working whole.

[Guest Plinuckment]

5 hours ago, Bubble181 said:

I'm not sure you're really doing something wrong - I'm struggling a bit, too.

Dropping Squirt's is porbably a good idea; I'm trying to find a second Unity at the moment to try that instead of CoE for more survivability.

This build is hyper-focussed on damage damage damage, as most are, but for people who aren't P2000 it may be very hard to play this style.

 

Well, it's nice to know other players who have similar issues. Right now at 115 my issue is both I'm not doing enough damage and I'm dying too much. No augments yet, so that (and higher Paragon) are the only things I think would make a difference. I miss the 4th cube SO badly - I think being able to stick Dayntee or Unity or Aquilla in there would help.

 

5 hours ago, Bubble181 said:

I don't know how you're playing ,but my Essence never drops for more than a second - instantly refilled with Grim Scythe. 

I play the Physical variant, so the only Essence recovery I have is through Dark Reaping (killing enemies restore a little Essence). I'm not a fan of the Poison version, but I am tempted to try that out just to compare the power level, once I get my Gogok up to a good level.

[Bubble181 14]

This time, a question from me...The build asks for CHC/CHD/IAS/Socket on one ring and CHC/CHD/CDR/Socket on the other.

Does this mean you really want those and just roll off the INT? I can see how this makes sense once yyour Paragons are up there or you've augmented most items with Topaz, but is this a good idea earlier on? I'd think INT would make a biger difference, but I' mnot good enough at the numbers side of things to see where or how it'd change.

[Guest Plinuckment]

On 4/26/2021 at 7:01 AM, Bubble181 said:

This time, a question from me...The build asks for CHC/CHD/IAS/Socket on one ring and CHC/CHD/CDR/Socket on the other.

Does this mean you really want those and just roll off the INT? I can see how this makes sense once yyour Paragons are up there or you've augmented most items with Topaz, but is this a good idea earlier on? I'd think INT would make a biger difference, but I' mnot good enough at the numbers side of things to see where or how it'd change

You're right, early on INT is much better. I usually don't even think about rolling off the INT until I get a high level augment on that piece. Or, high Paragon. 

[Deadset 108]

The poster above is correct, Intelligence is better early on and loses out on value as Paragons and Augmentations kick in. The guides are generally written with absolute endgame point of view, but it's worth noting that not all recommendations will be pleasant to play with, either due to loss of convenience stats, general toughness, or introducing dangerous aspects to the build (like Squirt's Necklace ).

In general, I hope this set rework and build come together in a future patch. Developer intention with the rework seemed very wobbly throughout the PTR, and it shows in the final result.

[Guest Josh154]

The GR speed build is garbage.

[Deadset 108]

😄

I mean, it's the set really. Compared to something like Bone Spear Masquerade, especially so.

[Sableflame 5]

On 5/4/2021 at 8:48 AM, Deadset said:

😄

I mean, it's the set really. Compared to something like Bone Spear Masquerade, especially so.

OK, so... I've got a question that I've seen on... literally dozens of builds.

In builds that utilize the Captain Crimson set, you unilaterally include the pants as the 2nd piece (the waist being the standard that interferes with practically no other set) - however, the main class set leg pieces always have a standard 2-socket roll on them (being one of the most desired possible rolls), whereas the CC legs are not guaranteed a socket roll.

Why not have the CC boots as the default 2nd piece instead? Boots (other than some rare exceptions) all have the same bonus rolls available to them, and you can ensure you have the 2-socket roll from the set legs instead of having to repeatedly craft or enchant for them on the CC piece.

[Bubble181 14]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:27 AM, Sableflame said:

OK, so... I've got a question that I've seen on... literally dozens of builds.

In builds that utilize the Captain Crimson set, you unilaterally include the pants as the 2nd piece (the waist being the standard that interferes with practically no other set) - however, the main class set leg pieces always have a standard 2-socket roll on them (being one of the most desired possible rolls), whereas the CC legs are not guaranteed a socket roll.

Why not have the CC boots as the default 2nd piece instead? Boots (other than some rare exceptions) all have the same bonus rolls available to them, and you can ensure you have the 2-socket roll from the set legs instead of having to repeatedly craft or enchant for them on the CC piece.

I'm not Deadset so I can't answer for him, BUT:

I generally use the boots instead of the legs as well, depending on the better roll. For the boots, though, they will nearly always roll with +movement speed (which is useless since it doesn't stack with Paragon points). This means you've got to get the other 3 primary stats to be 3 of the 4 desired ones. The legs don't have any "fixed" undesirable stat, so you've got 4 primary stats that need to be 3 of the desired ones, and whatever the fourth is, you can roll it off. So in the long run, statistically, you'll be better off crafting the legs. This being the end point of the build when you're crafting a dozen of them at a time looking for semi-perfect rolls; until that point, for heaven's sake, use whichever you have with the better roll 🙂 

[Sableflame 5]

1 hour ago, Bubble181 said:

I'm not Deadset so I can't answer for him, BUT:

😐... I must be some weird kind of RNGesus blessed then, because I almost never get +MS% on my boots, other than the ones where it's a fixed stat.

That being said... since MS% is in the core stat Paragon tree... having MS% isn't necessarily a complete loss, as you can move those points to your primary or vitality, as needed.

... and also, I'm lazy. Crafting 800 Pirate Kilts looking for the sexiest one doesn't move my needle... phrasing.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Sableflame
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[Deadset 108]

Chiming in to confirm Bubble181's interpretation of the reasoning behind crafting pants over boots. In my experience, they are roughly the same in terms of 'perfected' crafting output over the long run, and I cannot wholeheartedly recommend crafting one over the other. I end up writing down the pants due to force of habit, and sometimes include a note in the gearing page that states "the recommended split of set pieces is just for demonstrational purposes, and you can use any combination that yields the same set bonuses in the end." The same would apply to this guide, and the rest is in RNGsus's hands 🙂

[Guest DracoHelfire]

I have a question about the placeholder phylactery. With the build using Command Skeletons, even if it's not the main source of damage, would Boneringer not be a better 'placeholder' as it increases the damage of your Command Skeletons in between, and during, army casts?