Wipple 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Praise Jesus for soulshatter. At the moment I'm having to use it on cooldown, especially on multi target fights. Damn gear on a dead server. @Soulzar: I really hope it's not MoP:Destro as WoD:Demo. Never been a huge fan of demo.. That being said, bring the challenges. Edited June 5, 2014 by Wipple Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nalar 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Want WoD: Demo lol, can you imagine cataclysm with all buffs proc'd and all of a sudden you have imps flying out of you lol. Hope tho cataclysm would get a green fire effect , would be a nice effect I know it's early stages but wonder if you could do RoF and cataclysm after with FnB as well , that would be an insane ember builder?. On paper demonic servitude looks good but not impressed at the moment ?. Demonic bolt look amazing so I'm watching that space?. What would be your spec in WoD tho? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Want WoD: Demo lol, can you imagine cataclysm with all buffs proc'd and all of a sudden you have imps flying out of you lol. Hope tho cataclysm would get a green fire effect , would be a nice effect I know it's early stages but wonder if you could do RoF and cataclysm after with FnB as well , that would be an insane ember builder?. On paper demonic servitude looks good but not impressed at the moment ?. Demonic bolt look amazing so I'm watching that space?. What would be your spec in WoD tho? Remember, DoT snapshotting is gone. We ARE receiving a 20% additional chance to Crit to our Doom, so that will actually bring Doom's Imp procs higher than we are today - given that value remains the same. I still can't imagine them letting Cataclysm proc Doom if you use it in Metamorphosis - but hey, I also didn't think UVLS would go live. Demonic Servitude won't be fixed until a DPS tuning happens. Try not to look at ANYTHING for its damage value at this point - there is lots to be balanced. It's a passive talent, so it likely won't be the optimal of the three. It'd be like taking Supremacy over Service for Demo just because you don't want to use another button. It SHOULD be the lesser of the three talents since the other two require active use and manipulation. Demon Bolt will introduce a new thought process while playing that doesn't exist today - at least the thought has to be explored. Notice the tooltip says that if you go below 40 Demonic Fury, you'll get all of your DF spent on Demon Bolt returned to you. A couple of questions arise - what if you don't drop below 40 before leaving Metamorphosis? Does that value get 'saved' or does it get lost? Do you have to spend the remainder of your Demonic Fury to proc the return of the DF from Demon Bolt? If you go below 40 and it returns your DF, does it keep you in Metamorphosis or does it drop you out and give you the DF? Lots of things to explore that I don't think are really fully functional to test yet. I'm Demo in every xpac, even if it's 'sub-optimal.' Lots of Demonology Warlocks are beating Destruction parses now on particular fights with RNG and the new item level inflation. With DPS tuning coming for WoD, we have no idea what the superior spec will be. IF they do it correctly, all three specs will have value on certain fights. If they continue the model of MoP, certain specs will be clearly ahead of others except under specific circumstances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nalar 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Oh well I have a lot of ideas of how things will go, but willing to see what happens tbh some good things happening and something's I'm weary of, one question that sticks in my mind since we 1st learned of demonic servitude is 'are we getting any summonable "super" pets' seeing as Demonic servitude we can have them all the time?. (And dare I say it, like a pit lord or something like that) even if we have to go on a quest to achieve it, that would be awesome?. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Nothing about a Pit Lord has come up in the game's data files. You'll likely not see any additional demons added to the mix. Demonic Servitude will look cool initially, but I don't think it'll be used by skilled Warlocks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gnar 26 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 'are we getting any summonable "super" pets' As of now, no. To make up for the lose, the pet wouldn't have to do much extra damage as they only do 1.5mil as is if you are lucky. Some will say that we lose things like awakening and a small burst for something that must die, but that's the talents drawback currently. If you need the stun or burst, then you don't take the talent. Since the greater demons have no flavor as is though, I imagine they will get some sort of helpful command demon ability to AoE stun or just nuke the hell out of something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nalar 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Demonic Servitude will look cool initially, but I don't think it'll be used by skilled Warlocks. Agree with you there demonic servitude looks good on paper but having an imp on steroids they must be able to do something more than just shoot shadow bolts or you would just go for the imp and be done with it?. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Unsure of how well pets scale, but I know we get an additional 20% pet damage as we level. This will obviously boost Demonology more than any other spec, but it's still noteworthy to consider when factoring in final Demonic Servitude damage. In order for the talent to not be grossly overpowered for Demonology, it would have to be awful for Destruction and Affliction unless there were separate modifiers to bring Destro and Aff pets up to Demo's damage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gnar 26 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) Unsure of how well pets scale, but I know we get an additional 20% pet damage as we level. This will obviously boost Demonology more than any other spec, but it's still noteworthy to consider when factoring in final Demonic Servitude damage. In order for the talent to not be grossly overpowered for Demonology, it would have to be awful for Destruction and Affliction unless there were separate modifiers to bring Destro and Aff pets up to Demo's damage. Would be nice to see the greater demons generate some sort of embers or chance on hit to give soul shards. your comment got that idea rolling in my head to put them on a bit stronger level for the non pet specs. Edited June 5, 2014 by Gnar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Want my dream scenario? Here's what each spec and its pets would do under Demonic Servitude instead of giving passive Doomguard/Infernal Affliction Imp - ranged DPS with chance on Fel Bolt hit to automatically refresh Unstable Affliction Voidwalker - melee DPS with chance on melee to generate a Soul Shard Felhunter - melee DPS with chance on melee hit to siphon 10% mana Succubus - melee DPS with chance on melee hit to siphon 5% HP Why? Well, for single target DPS gain, you'd go Imp or Voidwalker. Maybe the Voidwalker proc is too strong, but the proc rate is low. Have a fight with a lot of AoE damage and want the extra heal? Bust the Succy out. Want to Life Tap less? Use Felhunter. Overall, I'd like to see them all be balanced so the benefit is VERY tight to where it comes down to personal taste, mostly like how their damage is now. Sure, there's a "winner" but you could use any for the benefit you want most. Destruction Imp - chance on Fel Bolt hit to completely restore one Burning Ember Voidwalker - chance on melee to completely restore one charge of Conflagrate Felhunter - chance on melee to spread Immolate to nearby targets within 8 yards Succubus - chance on melee to reset cooldown of Havoc Why? Imp would be favorable on a fight where you only care about DPS. Got some cleave? Use the Felhunter. Need some CCs or snares? Use Voidwalker. 2 target fight? Bust out the slut. Demonology Imp - chance on Fel Bolt hit to generate 3x Demonic Fury Voidwalker - chance on melee to reduce the cooldown of Sacrificial Pact or Dark Bargain by 10% or boost the healing component of Soul Link by 100% for 8 seconds Felhunter - chance on melee to proc a Wild Imp Succubus - chance on melee to reduce CD of Doomguard by 30 seconds Felguard - chance on melee to reduce CD of Felstorm by 5 seconds Why? It's time that Demonology isn't stuck into using one pet. In Cata, the Felguard was a worse single target DPS than the Felhunter which created the awful art of Pet Twisting. Pet decisions, however, could add flavor to fights and make you actually THINK about your pet instead of summon and ignore. Imp generating more DF is bland, but it's beneficial. Voidwalker would provide a substantial defensive boost. Felhunter procs more Imps. Succubus could be used if you like gambling on maybe getting a 2nd Doomguard. Felguard should still be the default choice for cleaving and this would solidify. What I just listed is a pipe dream. It would never be considered, but I think this type of thought process is a hell of a lot more entertaining, interesting, and fun than giving you a permanent Doomguard or Infernal. You can tell I haven't put in the time to balance the procs or proc rates, and you may even think my ideas are stupid as hell, but I personally think Warlocks would be fun as hell if you weren't stuck deciding on a pet based on some minor damage variance. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nalar 0 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Zagam , I don't think your ideas are stupid as hell, I agree with you giving us a infernal/doomguard is abit lack luster, no thinking there, and the more I read on DemServ the more I'm starting to dislike the talent. But I like where your going with differant spec's , if X happens then Y will happen. But as we're talking about hypothetical stuff happening I wish that we could get a vial and we could permenantly get a demon of our choosing , like hunters with thier pets. (Wishful thinking). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kazistrasz 216 Report post Posted June 5, 2014 Zagam for Lead Warlock Developer 2014 #zagam2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gnar 26 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 2 target fight? Bust out the slut. But no eye contact... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wipple 0 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Want my dream scenario? Here's what each spec and its pets would do under Demonic Servitude instead of giving passive Doomguard/Infernal AfflictionImp - ranged DPS with chance on Fel Bolt hit to automatically refresh Unstable AfflictionVoidwalker - melee DPS with chance on melee to generate a Soul ShardFelhunter - melee DPS with chance on melee hit to siphon 10% manaSuccubus - melee DPS with chance on melee hit to siphon 5% HP Why? Well, for single target DPS gain, you'd go Imp or Voidwalker. Maybe the Voidwalker proc is too strong, but the proc rate is low. Have a fight with a lot of AoE damage and want the extra heal? Bust the Succy out. Want to Life Tap less? Use Felhunter. Overall, I'd like to see them all be balanced so the benefit is VERY tight to where it comes down to personal taste, mostly like how their damage is now. Sure, there's a "winner" but you could use any for the benefit you want most. DestructionImp - chance on Fel Bolt hit to completely restore one Burning EmberVoidwalker - chance on melee to completely restore one charge of ConflagrateFelhunter - chance on melee to spread Immolate to nearby targets within 8 yardsSuccubus - chance on melee to reset cooldown of Havoc Why? Imp would be favorable on a fight where you only care about DPS. Got some cleave? Use the Felhunter. Need some CCs or snares? Use Voidwalker. 2 target fight? Bust out the slut. DemonologyImp - chance on Fel Bolt hit to generate 3x Demonic FuryVoidwalker - chance on melee to reduce the cooldown of Sacrificial Pact or Dark Bargain by 10% or boost the healing component of Soul Link by 100% for 8 secondsFelhunter - chance on melee to proc a Wild ImpSuccubus - chance on melee to reduce CD of Doomguard by 30 secondsFelguard - chance on melee to reduce CD of Felstorm by 5 seconds Why? It's time that Demonology isn't stuck into using one pet. In Cata, the Felguard was a worse single target DPS than the Felhunter which created the awful art of Pet Twisting. Pet decisions, however, could add flavor to fights and make you actually THINK about your pet instead of summon and ignore. Imp generating more DF is bland, but it's beneficial. Voidwalker would provide a substantial defensive boost. Felhunter procs more Imps. Succubus could be used if you like gambling on maybe getting a 2nd Doomguard. Felguard should still be the default choice for cleaving and this would solidify. What I just listed is a pipe dream. It would never be considered, but I think this type of thought process is a hell of a lot more entertaining, interesting, and fun than giving you a permanent Doomguard or Infernal. You can tell I haven't put in the time to balance the procs or proc rates, and you may even think my ideas are stupid as hell, but I personally think Warlocks would be fun as hell if you weren't stuck deciding on a pet based on some minor damage variance.It's just too bad that you are all too right in stating this is only a pipedream. This would add an aspect to warlock that would separate the truly awesome from the moderate and the moderate from the bad, as well as the bad from the clueless and the clueless from the completely illogical thinking warlock. Since I've been running exclusively destruction this xpac, the factor that determines my pet choice is based on the encounter's needs. Being that I play on a dead server at the moment, there are only 10 man guilds horde side and only one 25 on the alliance side. Therefore, the slight DPS variance matters not, I am always choosing based upon utility necessity of specific fights. Now that I wrote this out, I realize who I quoted and feel this was completely unnecessary. What I would like to see happen, that could happen for all classes with, say, an interrupt for example, is that a benefit is received for using such utility during an encounter. For example, a 10% damage buff to immolate for 8 seconds for landing a successful interrupt. An incentive for people to take matters into their own hands and handle things they are perfectly capable of would help all players become better, as opposed to relying on others to carry them through. Many classes' interrupts come on a 24 second CD and in a 10 man raid, on a low population server, wipes are inevitable due to missed interrupts, spell steals, dispels and this would give everyone an incentive to do what is necessary because I don't know a single DPS that doesn't like padding meters. Now before everyone says, "Oh! That's just for casuals! Come on they get catered to enough already," think about it. Those of you that raid 10 man know what I'm talking about. Keep in mind, it's a benefit to the entire community for people to learn their classes properly. Anyway, that's my pipedream. Edited June 6, 2014 by Wipple Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Things won't be balanced around 10 man anymore. There won't be a difficulty level based around 10 since it Flexes in all other difficulties other than Mythic. Balance concerns will, and should be, around having 20 in your party. The only reason I'd want something like what I listed above is because there isn't a pet choice right now. I use my Imp exclusively because of target switching and travel time. He also does like 0.5% less DPS than an Observer/Felhunter, so what's the point? He at least keeps my spirits up telling me he's ready to party. I only use my Voidwalker/Voidlord while farming Warbringers. Succubus? She just comes out to Seduce/Mesmerize people in arena. Hunters have the same issue - they just summon a pet and it does damage for them. The only time you notice your pet is when it DOESN'T do what it's supposed to. You never go "holy shit, my Imp just switched and took out that low HP mob! Way to go, Niple!" Instead, you go, "WHY THE FUCK DID NIPLE DESPAWN? THAT WORTHLESS SACK OF SHIT, NOW I HAVE TO BURN AN EMBER..." I just hope we get some deeper choice on pet other than looks and some tiny, negligible DPS variance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soulzar 42 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 I would really like to see the Improved Soul Fire proc back for Destro, though that goes against making the pets more universal and less pigeon holed. It may be time we get something along the lines of hunters, where your pet is spec for a roll and the dmg normalized, so you can pick a pet based on flavor of the day. Who says the Blueberry needs to be the "tank" .. spec him for dmg and let him go to town. This would allow us to pick a pet that best fits a scenario based on its command demon ability, and still have your "Dps pet" or your "tank pet" or your "Multi target pet" If Servitude remains just our infernal/doomguard... I think it could work well to have them changed to work like treants. Infernal .. 3 charges, short duration. Can be used for infernal awakening as an AoE option for all 3 specs, though that somewhat clashed with the times you would want to use Cataclysm. Doomguard could be for times you need short single target burst, pump out 3 doomguards to tunnel your target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Unless it's a bug, Infernal Awakening isn't targetted anymore - it just plops it's lame ass right beside you. I do like the charge system as a talent change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soulzar 42 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Unless it's a bug, Infernal Awakening isn't targetted anymore - it just plops it's lame ass right beside you. I do like the charge system as a talent change. That is one thing I noticed when Sparks was testing out Servitude. I assume it still exists for not talented infernal? or is that gone too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Not sure - there's a slight chance I'll be in the alpha next week to do a plethora of testing. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soulzar 42 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 For those who don't actively follow Sparkuggz.. I think AoE Chaos Bolt and AoE Doom are the standouts, everything else looks... meh :D 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Thoughts... Affliction - Chaotic Resources (empower Haunt) is boring as hell. Tooltip says 15%, buff says 20%. Affliction - Cataclysm - ain't no one using this crap as Affliction if Soulburn:Seed of Corruption still exists. If this applied Agony AoE, then maybe. AoE UA would be too broken for PvP. Affliction - Demonic Servitude - MAYBE use the Doomguard. Infernal needs HEAVY damage adjustment. Demo - Chaotic Resources (Demon Bolt) needs a better animation. It looks kinda limp. I also didn't see the DF return when he popped out of Meta. Demo - Cataclysm - AoE Doom? Check. Damage modified by Meta? Check. Could be quite good if Demon Bolt doesn't pan out. Demo - Demonic Servitude - boring. Destro - Chaotic Resources (FnB Chaos Bolt) is definitely going to be the AoE talent and spec of choice. Fire and Brimstone is already one of the most powerful AoE abilities in the game. Shit just got overcharged. Destro - Cataclysm - meh, the damage on this would have to be incredible to pass up FnB CB. Destro - Demonic Servitude - boring The damage difference between Doomguard and Infernal is staggering. The Doomguard was hitting for 5500-6000 damage while the Infernal was AoEing for 600 and meleeing for 200. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liquidsteel 279 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Not sure - there's a slight chance I'll be in the alpha next week to do a plethora of testing. If you're gonna stream, at what time would this be? I'm like the only EU player here so I always miss it, and you never save your broadcasts (I have checked!). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 I don't stream raids because my guild has 4 streamers already. I'll save alpha/beta streams for sure. If I stream active stuff, it'd be on the weekends are various times. I'm 2 months from a wedding and work is crazy, so times aren't consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soulzar 42 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Thoughts... Demo - Chaotic Resources (Demon Bolt) needs a better animation. It looks kinda limp. I also didn't see the DF return when he popped out of Meta. Demo - Cataclysm - AoE Doom? Check. Damage modified by Meta? Check. Could be quite good if Demon Bolt doesn't pan out. Demo - Demonic Servitude - boring. That's probably because of how he used it. He chain cast till he wen OOF, his last Demon Bolt probably cost like 20 fury and refunded 7 lol Also, looks like Cata in Meta costs ~175 DF which brings it down a bit and would seem reasonable for the ability to apply AoE doom. At 3 targets and up its a net saving on DF cost of doom, plus the dmg of Cata and the saved globals. Single target it likely wouldn't be better than applying doom and spending 115 DF on other fury consumers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zagam 1,982 Report post Posted June 6, 2014 Right - didn't think about that in regards to Demon Bolt. Going to have to test it to find optimal time to cast it. Costs less and returns less DF if you use it when you have less. Doom costs 50 DF, so if you're hitting 3 targets during a 2.5 second cast, you're basically coming out even in terms of time and DF consumption to put Doom on 3 targets. The extra AoE splash is nice, but you'd have to hit a lot more targets before Cata wins out unless DB is just garbage. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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