Siegecrafter Shredder Killing

[Painagain 2]

1st pull I was stuck going to Shredder without reactive buff, obviously didn't end well since I could damage it worth a crap without the buff.

 

FWIW, my tank is ilvl 561 and spec'd for avoidance.

 

2nd pull I got Siegecrafter first and got a buff and went for Shredder, wasn't pretty, wasn't fast, had to use a blade on the ground, but he finally died. By the time shredder died the pally tank had good stacks of reactive armor buff and destroyed his shredder, promptly came back and taunted Siegecrafter off me before the next shredder came. When the next shredder dropped I may have had 1 stack of the buff and it only lasts like 60 secs after I lost the boss, so I didn't have much of a buff or much time left on it to kill the shredder. I had no blades to work with and ran out of time before next Shredder came. I was pretty much like WTF.

 

Tank with Seigecrafter KEEPS him until Shredder drops and only then does OT swap so buffed tank can kill shredder, right? Then OT keeps Seigecrafter until next shredder and swaps again? The Siegecrafter tank always keeps the boss until the shredder comes? The other tank is a very good and very well geared heroic MT on heroic team, so I deferred to what he was doing, but I felt I was getting shorted on the buff I needed to do my job. I was swapped out for another tank (DK) with less gear, but he could do more dps. I switched to my rogue.

 

So, questions. How many stacks of  the buff are enough to easily kill the shredder and what would you consider the minimum buff needed for an avoidance geared warrior tank? Are there talent/glyph changes I should make for this fight to go easier? What would be the optimal way to use my rage to kill the shredder? Should I change stance to generate more rage for the shredder? Any thoughts are welcome.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Painagain

[Hybrys 199]

The fight really boils down to stack management, as long as your play is solid.  You'll want to swap right as the Shredders land, so you have at least 2 or pref 3 stacks while fighting it.

 

An alternative strategy is to have one single tank taunt Siegecrafter before their debuff falls, and maintain stacks throughout the fight.  This is very easy for a Paladin to do (due to the combined and intelligent use of their cooldowns and cloak proc), and you might want to consider it.

[ragebarr 153]

I'd say you want 2 at the very least, and ideally 3 stacks to kill your shredder.

 

Unless the paladin wants to maintain his stacks, as Hybrys said, he should always let you keep the boss until the following shredder spawn. If he doesn't let you go up to 2-3 stacks and expects you to kill the shredder, it's not going to happen.

[Estarriol 167]

As Hybrys stated, there are two prinary methods of stack management. 1) Taunt each time a shredder spawns and not in between. Tanks alternate who kills the add each time. 2) One tank kills most or all adds. This tank will pull the boss and the OT will taunt when an add spawns. The MT kills it and immediately comes back and taunts before stacks fall. Hybrys said this method is easy for paladins. With Shield Barrier, it is even easier for warriors.

 

Either way you start, you need to get the first hit on the boss on pull. The first stack goes out on whoever gets the first hit, regardless of aggro. Make sure you are using Heroic Throw before the DPS jump in. 

 

Method 1) This method is more common in normal modes. You shouldn't need a barrier for the first stack, but have one up for the second and use a barrier and a small CD for the third. The third stack will go out right before the shredder spawns. As long as you got the first hit on pull, you now have 3 stacks. Heroic Leap out to meet the add. You want to do roughly 40% of the add's health in damage before Death From Above, then Dragon Roar, Shield Slam, and Execute. Three GCDs after DFA should be all it takes to kill the add with three stacks. If you can put the add on a sawblade, do so. Pop Reck and Skull Banner about 5 seconds before DFA starts casting.

 

Method 2) This is generally the preferred method for heroic. The fight starts the same way, but then you charge back to the boss and taunt. Your OT will generally have 2 stacks at this point. For the fouth stack, use Shield Wall and a full barrier. If you can, call for an external for the 5th stack and use a full barrier. If there are no externals, use Demo Shout. Why SW for 4 and Demo for 5? You might not have full vengeance for your fourth stack and may need to compensate by using a bigger CD. After your fifth stack, the second shredder will spawn. You shouldn't have to worry about finding a sawblade. If you have Curse of Hubris, absolutely use it on this fight and pop it as you're foghting the second shredder. It should be the same routine with DFA, the DR, then Shield Slam, then Execute. With 5 stacks, it will probably die before the third GCD. Go back and taunt the boss. Call for a Hand of Sac or Pain Suppression if possible for the 6th stack and use a full barrier. If you cannot get an external, use Rally abd Demo Banner. For the 7th stack, use Last Stand and Demo Shout. The third shredder spawns here. Go blow it up. At this point, you will probably need to drop stacks, so don't taunt after killing the add. After your OT gets his or her 6th stack, taunt the boss. They'll kill the 4th add while you get your stacks back. You should have 4 by the time the next shredder spawns. Pop Reck and Skull Banner and qipe it out. Rinse and repeat from there if the fight lasts longer than 5 Shredders.

 

For talents, I recommend Dragon Roar and Bloodbath. Pop Bloodbath as soon as you get to the add every time, do not wait. It'll help you get to the critical point where you'll be able to kill the add within 3 GCDs after DFA. Use Heavy Repercussions, Incite, and Hold the Line glyphs. The three free Heroic Strikes are immensly useful when killing on a time limit. Keeping Shield Block up when you're on the add is essential. Make sure you have enough rage and a charge to use right after DFA.

 

For trinkets, I recommend Curse of Hubris and Vial of Living Corruption. If you do not have Curse, use the dodge trinket from the Timeless Isle that can be purchased for 50k coins. Keep in mind that you want the crit, not really strength when chosing  trinket if you cannot get either one of those. Also keep in mind that you want an on-use trinket, not a proc. Being able to pop it with the shredder is important.

 

Your questions:

Minimum number of buffs really depends on your gear. I can kill a shredder on heroic with 2. I grumble, but it is possible. I have not tried with only one stack. However, I'm only two pieces away from being BiS. You should always be able to get three unless your DPS screw up by pulling early.

I addressed gearing, talents, and glyphs. As for rage, you should be putting all or most of it into Shield Block. If you will reach 90 rage before you next charge comes off CD, use a Heroic Strike. Execute when possible.

Do not stance dance. You will cost yourself vengeance (IIRC) and the rage generation in Battle stance for prot warriors is atrocious. You'll have sufficient rage as is.

 

I don't know why your cotank was taunting off of you AND expecting you to kill adds. You should never have had to go kill adds with one or no stacks. If he is going to be depriving you of stacks, he should be killing the adds, not you. He was doing you a disservice and was playing very poorly.