Disc Priest Looking for help..

[Yalta 0]

Hi Guys,

 

I am making a post on behalf of my friend from my guild. He is a disc priest and his character is:-

 

eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twisting-nether/Healurmind/advanced

 

We killed Garrosh last night and the logs for that kill are below:-

 

warcraftlogs.com/reports/Y123rDtwBWn8Fj7f/#source=29

 

Any constructive advice with regards to any aspect of his gameplay would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks :)

[Gwenymph 414]

They are reforging out of most of their Crit and Masttery for Haste.  I'd strongly recommend doing the opposite and undo all the reforging.  As you come across more and more SoO gear your Mastery goes through the roof on its own so it's safe to reforge out of all their Haste and a comfortable amount of Spirit and put it all into Crit where applicable and Mastery where Crit is N/A.  They are currently running over 20k Spirit, that is double what the majority of Disc run with.  Once they regem and reforge get them as low as they are comfortable with in Spirit 8-11k seems to be where 90% of raiders land.  It is also acceptable for them to pick up the Legendary DPS cloak for Crit and to drop some Spirit, instead of keeping the Heal Cloak.

 

Gems should be:

Red = Potent

Yellow = Smooth

Blue = Misty

 

Unglyph PWS and have them take Weakend Soul, Binding Heal(and use it), PoM, Fade....  just not PWS.  Also pick up the Minor Glyph of Sha.

 

I only looked at the Garry fight, and AA uptime was less than 30%.  They will want to get that as high as possible, do not worry about saving it for high damage phases.  Above 50% is an acceptable goal to set.  DS is the proper L90 to take there, which they did.  There Spirit Shell usage was mistimed every activation.  It over healed for over 60% and healed for less than 200k over 4 activations.  There a plenty of instances for them to use SS for maximum absorbs, some examples are: Iron Star crash, Weapon AoE if you are stacking through it, transition phases while Garry is playing Donkey Kong and whirlings.  Make those changes to their gear.  Get some weakauras to track the Meta Proc, AA, SS, etc and log again next lockout and there will be more help available to them from more people on specific ways to maximize their play.  Look forward to an update!

 

Grats on Garrosh!

[Yalta 0]

Thanks for your help. Is there an specific stat weights you would recommend for Ask Mr Robot? I believe he has re gemmed now after your post :) so thanks

[LostDignity 12]

First things first: Stat Optimization

His re-gemming is horrible (no offense). Everyone's going to have different priorities but he's contradicting himself, mathematically. lets first compare weapon and shoulder

 

------------------------------------------

Shoulder

Socket bonus requirement: Yellow+Blue

Current gems: (yellow-  320crit)x2 (no bonus) output is 640crit total-

Potential gems: (yellow - 320crit) + (green - 160spirit/crit) (120int bonus) output 480crit - 120int - 160spirit

Differences: 160crit(current) vs 120int + 160spirit(potential)

 

Weapon

Socket requirement: Blue

Current gems: (green-160spirit/crit) (60int bonus) output 160crit-160spirit-60int

Potential gems: (yellow-320crit) (no bonus) output 320crit

Differences: 160spirit - 60int(current) vs 160crit(potential)

------------------------------------------

 

Now if you use potential gems instead of his current gems, you would get an extra 60int. Amazing right? The best part is that he only needs to switch the gems around(green on weapon switches with a yellow on shoulders). Why is this the case? The socket bonus. Each gem can give an extra 60stat if you match the colors. He is wasting 2 gem worth of socket bonus as opposed to 1. 

 

However, this does not mean more prioritizing 3 socket will always show better results. I'll give a few examples:

 

------------------------------------------

(note: set 1 is following Gwen's tip; Set 2 is going pure crit)

Chest

Socket requirement: bluex3

Gem set 1: (green-160spirit/crit)x3 (180int bonus) output 480spirit - 480crit - 180int

Gem set 2: (yellow-320crit)x3 (no bonus) output 960crit

Differences: 480spirit - 180int (1) vs 480crit (2)

 

Legs

Socket requirement: redx2

Gem set 1: (orange - 80int - 160crit)x2 (120int bonus) output 320crit - 280int

Gem Set 2: (yellow - 320crit)x2 (no bonus) output 640crit

Differences: 280int (1) vs 320crit (2)

 

Belt

Socket requirement: blue+red

Gem set 1: (green - 160spirit/crit) + (orange - 80int - 160crit) (120int bonus) output  200int - 320crit

Gem set 2: (yellow - 320crit)x2 output 640int

Differences: 160spirit - 200int (1) vs 320crit (2) 

------------------------------------------

 

As you can see theres quite a bit of depth involved with gemming. Explaining gems is tedious. Using myself as a tool: I have enough spirit and as a result spirit is a negligible stat for me. To begin with simplicity, lets start out looking at the int to crit ratio of the differences.

 

Chest: 3/8

Legs: 7/8

Belt 5/8 

 

These ratios are whats important to decide whether I want to ignore the gem bonuses or not. If I believe 1int is worth about 2 crit then this would mean anything above a (1/2) or (4/8) ratio would mean i should use the socket bonus, anything below would mean I should ignore the bonus. Using the before-mentioned ratios, I would be using the socket bonus for the belt and the legs, but not the chest. Obviously though, if you're having alot of mana problems then the chest would help alot.

 

Disc has alot more variety in their reforges than most other healers, so i would recommend you(or him) to try out all the viable priorities. Playstyle has a huge role in deciding which priority is more optimal. The most prominent one though would be crit>int>mastery (in my experience).

 

I'll touch on the logs later (tomorrow maybe?)

 

Understanding is key

-LostDignity

[Gwenymph 414]

I'll add that the AMR weight question has been brought up quite a bit.  It obvious that the stand builds in AMR are incorrect for Disc.  Crit>Mast>Haste is the target after the spirit level with the end result being Crit and Mastery growing together and staying w/i 3-7% of each other.  I believe Steve or Brutal posted a Theorycrafting snippet that once they are w/i that range you'll want Mastery to the stat that has the 3-7% edge.  The way the gear falls in SoO, you wont have to try for that to happen as you'll be trying to keep Crit caught up w/ Mastery in most cases.

 

As a suggestion, have him start at 12k Spirit since he was at 20k previously.  Make sure he gets comfortable at that level and ends encounters w/ mana to spare then drop it again. 

 

LostDignity brings up a great point that about bonuses too!  The 2:1 ratio is correct and skipping bonuses will be common for Disc.  Taking a Smooth Crit gem over a +60Spirit or any other example that falls into his ratio example of min/max socket bonuses should be followed.

[BlankVoid123 1]

For my disc priest i use the following AMR stat values. 

 

              Int: 1

             Crit: 0.9

Spell Power: 0.81

      Mastery: 0.5

          Haste: 0.4

 

Definitely advise him to run with more Smooth Sun's gems than anything else. Crit is much better than Intellect, especially after you get past a 540 ilvl or so. On my gear i only have 3 socket bonuses active, but that has more to do with my spirit cap than anything.

 

Speaking of spirit, definitely have him set up a cap, 10k to start out with, moving down as he gets more comfortable with the lower levels. It looks like hes already using Mindbender as his mana regen talent, tell him to use it when he first hits 70% mana, then to use it on cooldown.

 

His level 75 talent should be Twist of Fate, its a very powerful talent that excels even more in fights that had adds as they increase the uptime of it. The double dip of damage and healing is extremely useful for Disc, and as the boss gets lower in health damage tends to increase so it will allow him to adjust and keep pace better with any increase in damage.

 

And if you dont have any casters that need gear, start giving him dps cloth gear, espeically if it has crit and mastery on it.

 

My gear is at nearly the same level as his, so my stats in comparison

 

                    My Stat                  Healurminds Stat

 

Spirit             8000                            11500

Mastery        47.74%                        52.16%

Crit               48.96%                        34.08%

Haste             6.57%                         23.21%

 

What these stats tell me is that he has too much spirit, its not about being at 100% mana, but about having just enough to last the fight.

 

His mastery his really high, which is good in a way; but its main effect is to increase your absorbs. But with that low of crit there just isnt enough Divine Aegis going out.

 

The haste is good for dungeons, scenarios and such. Its basically the atonement only build, but again it ignores the benefit of mastery and absorbs, instead being more of a traditional healer attempting to replenish health loss, instead of absorbing the damage before it even happens.

[LostDignity 12]

Just reviewed the logs

 

first improvement i can look on is the spirit shell. Of the first three Whirlings (of the final attempt), he only used spirit shell on the first. He used it so late that he most likely didn't really benefit from it, and to top it off he only had one PoH on it. This really needs an improvement. Looking further into it, he used spirit shell four times during the whole fight, and poh once total during those spirit shell moments. He is not utilizing disc priest's top cooldown.

 

Like stated above, archangel uptime was fairly low. If he's having trouble getting high uptime then tell him to macro the spell to smite/penance/holyfire/PoH. Same thing with mindbender, but it seems like hes got that going pretty well.

 

For his Meta gem proc, it doesn't seem like hes using this very well either. of his 18 procs, he only had used pws in about 3 of them, give or take. I use WeakAuras to keep track of this. If you combine this proc with rapture it gives alot of mana returns.

 

He's not using inner focus. Also please tell him to keep inner fire (or will) on at all times. I can't seem to find that buff on him at all.

 

Divine Insight isn't the best talent either.

 

This is all that I can think of.

-LostDignity

 

 

[Gwenymph 414]

Just want to add that Warcraft Logs does not show Inner Fire or Inner Will reliably yet. It may be entirely possible that they did have a buff active.  I've had it active way before the pull goes off and it only shows up 10% of the time.  The important part is to just make sure they are tracking it.

[Sublime 3]

Like quite a few people have already stated, improvements will be seen as soon as stats are fixed. I'm currently playing a 581 Disc priest in Heroic progression and what I've gone for is roughly 40% crit and 50% mastery unbuffed

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/shattered-hand/Subl%C3%ADme/simple

Looking at my mastery it seems it's taking into account the 5% mastery I get from Shadow Form, as I'm sure I don't have that much more mastery than crit, but roughly 41% crit and 54% mastery after that you can adjust your spirit according to trinkets and raid size, 10 man requires more than 25 due to fewer mana regen CDs. I started playing Disc about 3 months ago, so I'm not going to say that I am any good at it, but I've found these benchmarks to be good healing-wise. Haste is just a completely useless stat for us currently, and you don't want anything to do with it, avoid it like the plague. 

[Notoris 3]

...

Looking at my mastery it seems it's taking into account the 5% mastery I get from Shadow Form, as I'm sure I don't have that much more mastery than crit, but roughly 41% crit and 54% mastery after that you can adjust your spirit according to trinkets and raid size, 10 man requires more than 25 due to fewer mana regen CDs.

...

Correct me if I'm wrong but Isn't it +5% Haste you and raid get from Shadowform?

[Espiee 161]

Armory profiles don't take into account raid buffs.

 

You get 1% mastery for every 375 points of mastery rating. Additionally you have 12.8% by default.

 

To get 54% mastery unbuffed you'd need about 15450 mastery rating.

Edited June 26, 2014 by steve

[Sublime 3]

Yeah, I don't really know where I was going with that, I just know that my mastery was higher than it usually is. I have logged out in Disc spec and gear now and my mastery is down to its normal 52ish%. At least I was sure of one thing, and that was that my mastery was higher than normal, the rest is just bad.

[Seiichi 1]

Thought I'd ask a question too for all the knowledgeable Disc priests here. My wife is having a similar problem, with underpowered healing even in 10-man. Lots of good gemming and forging tips here that she's gonna try.

My question relates to editing AMR weights. When you guys say to set the spirit cap at about 10-12k to start with and then moving down with comfort, do you mean static spirit across gear or effective spirit including on-use trinkets and procs and such?

Figure that would be useful information for her, so she doesn't spend out the wazoo on regemming and reforging just to find out she picked the wrong cap lol.

[Gwenymph 414]

If she is currently having issues. What is her Spirit at now? Does she have the Legendary Meta? What trinkets does she have to choose from in her inventory?  That information will help decide which Spirit label to start w/ (static/effective) as well as total as a launching point.

[Seiichi 1]

If she is currently having issues. What is her Spirit at now? Does she have the Legendary Meta? What trinkets does she have to choose from in her inventory?  That information will help decide which Spirit label to start w/ (static/effective) as well as total as a launching point.

Her current spirit is 15,660 and she does indeed have the legendary meta. She has Contemplation of Chi-Ji (535+4) and Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia (528+8). Reg and Flex have not been kind, trinket-wise. She also has Purified Bindings of Immersues (553) for her Shadow spec, but trying it out with Atonement didn't trigger the Int proc. Ever.

[Espiee 161]

The only redeeming quality about the Spirit of Chi-Ji is the static intellect, the on-use spirit buff is terrible for its ilvl, and shouldn't be needed at all if she's at 15k spirit.

 

It's hard to say exactly what's what without any concrete foundation to work on, including armory and logs. Especially logs are essential to helping someone get better. Itemisation only goes so far.

[Gwenymph 414]

Her current spirit is 15,660 and she does indeed have the legendary meta. She has Contemplation of Chi-Ji (535+4) and Nazgrim's Burnished Insignia (528+8). Reg and Flex have not been kind, trinket-wise. She also has Purified Bindings of Immersues (553) for her Shadow spec, but trying it out with Atonement didn't trigger the Int proc. Ever.

 

Correct Purified Bindings will not proc off atonement.  It will only proc for Disc if you decide to melee the boss.  There are some other posts on here with suggested AMR values.  As long as your approach is Crit>Mastery>Haste in the secondary stats you are starting in the right direction. 

 

You mentioned she is going to try the gemming and reforging.  Following the Red = Potent, Yellow = Smooth, Blue = Misty and reforging out of Spirit into Crit, where applicable first, before reforging out of it for Mastery; If she is still at 15K Spirit have her run warcraftlogs with the changes and post them for us to get her more specific help.  If she is not almost out of mana when the encounter is complete have her reforge out of the remaining Spirit Items, that have Crit on them, into Mastery. Like Steve mentioned, the more information the better going forward after these broad changes (armory/logs).  Sorry I couldnt give you the magic AMR weights but as Disc she will be making changes pretty fluidly compared to the classes that have hard caps and plateaus to aim for.  The better she gets, and the better her team gets, the less Spirit she will need.

 

Look forward to seeing more from the two of you after the changes!

[Krazyito 521]

AMR weights abound! Gwen, feel free to use these in a sticky if you want, or make your own.

With spirit cap: NOTE: This does not sacrifice gemming (somewhat), so it may not reach higher spirit thresholds depending on your gear. If you want more spirit (not recommend) then switch the weights for Spirit and crit

No spirit cap (Lowest possible spirit > haste)

Note: spirit set to .25 is significant, which it keeps +120 int bonuses with 2 blue sockets. If it was lower it would ignore those bonuses, if it was higher it would include red and blue +60 spirit bonuses

[Seiichi 1]

Thank you for your help guys We're going to finally get around to running 10-man normal tonight (been a busy week), I'll report back the results of the changes. I'll see about getting her Warcraftlogs too, so that if there are still some issues we have logs to work from.

Wish us luck (and that she gets some trinkets at long last)!

 

Edit: Here's the augmented AMR weights we're going to be using for the run, hopefully it'll work out.
 

Int: 1
Crit: 0.87
SP: 0.81
Spirit: 0.8 (Static capped at 10k)
Mastery: 0.5
Haste: 0.4

Was going to set Crit higher, but beyond that it replaced all the Potent gems with straight crit and she lost out on nearly 1,200 Int... seemed a might steep.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Seiichi

[Gwenymph 414]

@Krazy:  I think it's great that you kept the bonuses in mind when figuring out the weight value.  I will use it as reference but with the * that it is a road map to get where you are going, not the playbook to the promise land.
 

 

Thank you for your help guys We're going to finally get around to running 10-man normal tonight (been a busy week), I'll report back the results of the changes. I'll see about getting her Warcraftlogs too, so that if there are still some issues we have logs to work from.

Wish us luck (and that she gets some trinkets at long last)!

 

GL tonight!

[Krazyito 521]

@Krazy:  I think it's great that you kept the bonuses in mind when figuring out the weight value.  I will use it as reference but with the * that it is a road map to get where you are going, not the playbook to the promise land.

 

 

Yep totally agree.  Thats how I state it in my own guide with the weights

[Gwenymph 414]

Thanks a lot man. Appreciate it.

[Seiichi 1]

Welp, cleared up to Malk tonight. No new trinket drops, but a better weapon did drop. The regemming and reforging seem to have worked quite well in boosting up her numbers -- she stayed competitive with higher-geared healers who have the legendary cape, which has been next to impossible before. Even fights that gave her trouble (Norushen springs to mind) went much more smoothly with greater healing.

:D Looks like a rousing success, hopefully the first of many in an ongoing upgrade! Thanks guys!

[Gwenymph 414]

Welp, cleared up to Malk tonight. No new trinket drops, but a better weapon did drop. The regemming and reforging seem to have worked quite well in boosting up her numbers -- she stayed competitive with higher-geared healers who have the legendary cape, which has been next to impossible before. Even fights that gave her trouble (Norushen springs to mind) went much more smoothly with greater healing.

Looks like a rousing success, hopefully the first of many in an ongoing upgrade! Thanks guys!

 

Glad to hear it went so well.  Congrats!