WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Liquidsteel 279]

Is that a Grinch reference?

[Alphric 7]

Yes, yes it is :p

[gahhda 95]

I doubt they'd comment that they're actually wrong or made a mistake.  They must have a cast sequence macro...

 

/ignore

/ignore

/ignore

/nerf

/shittybuff

/launch

 

It's depressing that they give us the beta and then ignore our words of wisdom.  No admission that they're working on issues or anything - just sweeping nerfs to counter the effects so they can buff it later.  Puts dents in time we can spend analyzing DPS to give valuable contributions.

 

I'm posting empirical math for destruction in about an hour. Then I'll do affliction. And hopefully, by then, celestalon will realize that he was completely wrong about everything and fix his fucking mistake.

[Alphric 7]

did you empirical demo math too? or nah. cuz demos the jam. 

also. prove dem bitches wrong.

[gahhda 95]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841994636?page=3#50

 

Someone proof-read that to make sure I didn't say some dumbass shit.

[Desos 18]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13841994636?page=3#50

 

Someone proof-read that to make sure I didn't say some dumbass shit.

Looks solid. Nice work. 

One of my favourite parts is the dps-neutrality of GoSac, which is completely against the design intentions of talents.

The other one is the part about mana. For example I never understood why one would want RoF to cost so much mana if there are better ways already implemented to limit its effectiveness ... like damage scaling, duration, (not) overlapping and ember generation.

[gahhda 95]

They, historically, have done idiotic things to balance destruction.

 

RoF, instead of tuning the damage back, was instead given a 12.5% chance to generate 2 embers on hit.

Fel flame was nerfed by LITERALLY DOUBLING THE MANA COST. Any sane person would have nerfed the damage, not the mana. It wasn't even nerfed for destro, it got nerfed because demo was using it over shadow bolt, BECAUSE THEY BUFFED THE DAMAGE. The only reason it isn't used as demo right now on live is because you lose GCDs from spending so much mana on fel flame and subsequently having to life tap.

Edited September 5, 2014 by gahhda

[Zagam 1,982]

I really, really don't enjoy that their iterations are successive and not cumulative.  As a process-oriented engineer, I always record my iterations and move back to one if something gets screwed up majorly.  The way you mention Fel Flame's history gives me a heart ache because instead of just reverting the damage after they overbuffed it, they changed something else which then changed something else.  Just go back to a previous version and alter something differently.

 

Also, Celest saying he doesn't know why everyone else is seeing lower numbers out of Demonology than they are is just a bunch of horseshit.  There's no way that anyone at Blizzard knows how to play it better than the majority of elite players.  Icing on the cake is them not showing what they're seeing.  Communication never works properly when only one channel is open.

[juribe 1]

The silver lining here, of course, is that they're admitting that there's a gap between what they're seeing internally (whether this is them doing game-testing or spreadsheet theorycrafting) and what everyone else is seeing on Beta. Hopefully this means some buffs for Demo, because right now it's only viable if you're trying to beat tanks in damage.

 

Luckily, Affliction still seems pretty strong.

Edited September 5, 2014 by juribe

[Zagam 1,982]

The reason I play a Warlock (and likely others) is to be a pure DPS.  I'm not a Paladin where my only role is to smash shit with divine purpose and retribution.  I enjoy being a DPS with 3 different flavors and styles that can adapt to fights in their own way.  Even during the glory days of UVLS Demo in ToT, we still went Destruction for Primordius progression because of how amazing MF was with FnB and RoF and we went Affliction (some of us) on Megaera or Elders because of multi-dotting mechanics.  It's nice to expect our performances to be close but be able to change specs for certain fights based on fight parameters.  The reason this Demo nerf irks me is that it literally has no niche at all now.  I'm most happy when all three specs have at least 1 or 2 encounters where they are better than the other two.

[Soulzar 42]

I still hate DemonBolt.  When it crits it feels great, when it doesn't it feels like I'm flushing fury down the drain.  Demonbolt IMO needs to be like Chaos Bolt and Soul Fire and always crit. Adjust its dmg/scaling accordingly.

 

Feels odd to play Charred Remains Destro and have every other spell be a ~70k Chaos Bolt, then spec into Demo and have Demon Bolt hit for 30k with a stupid 1min debuff

 

At least our Imps are working again.

[Zagam 1,982]

The fact they nerfed it from 250% to 150% scaling makes me believe they will put in an auto-crit function.  That would make sense, at least.

[juribe 1]

The reason I play a Warlock (and likely others) is to be a pure DPS.  I'm not a Paladin where my only role is to smash shit with divine purpose and retribution.  I enjoy being a DPS with 3 different flavors and styles that can adapt to fights in their own way.  Even during the glory days of UVLS Demo in ToT, we still went Destruction for Primordius progression because of how amazing MF was with FnB and RoF and we went Affliction (some of us) on Megaera or Elders because of multi-dotting mechanics.  It's nice to expect our performances to be close but be able to change specs for certain fights based on fight parameters.  The reason this Demo nerf irks me is that it literally has no niche at all now.  I'm most happy when all three specs have at least 1 or 2 encounters where they are better than the other two.

 

Completely agree, if we are only going to have one viable spec for DPS I might as well play a warrior or druid or some other hybrid so I can expand in that way. If Affliction is the only thing viable, that's not going to be a fun raid tier at all, despite the encounter design so far being very good.

[Twinkielock 15]

Carry the pitchforks and torches to Blizzcon!

[Soulzar 42]

Yeah, as much as I love my Warlock I have always had a bit of Hybrid Envy with them being able to jump into completely different roles on their main, something I need to go to a less geared alt for.   I feel left out when I cant bid Off Off Spec on tier tokens!

[Zagam 1,982]

I've got every class to 90.  I'll be the last Warlock to jump ship, but if Warlocks bring little utility (Sorry, Celest, raid strats are NOT devised around Gateways, it's the other way around) and are not Tier 1 DPS, there will be little justification to my group having 3 (me, Locky, Kaz), so I'll likely be the one that pops to a more well-rounded class.  I doubt they'll let Warlocks suffer, but I've got my emergency kit prepared.

[Soulzar 42]

Our raid will have 4 locks.... at least we have as many Warriors so they can carry the deeps :D

[Sifon 25]

All guilds have more than enough warlocks at the moment, lots rerolled to warlock in MoP and giving a total overhoul with new mechanics, a class specific quest chain and giving enough tools to be competitive on every single boss attracted many. My current guild has 4-5 active warlocks and I doubt any mythic guild would want more than 2 in current situation.

[gahhda 95]

Haven't been on twitter since celestalon's response was #lolrekt. Did he actually say warlocks were much higher in their testing? or are you guys just referencing his response to me?

[Zagam 1,982]

No, there was something on MMO this morning that said he's heard that Demo is much lower than where they see it.  That was what I was referencing.  It's like they collectively have heard that their numbers are different but won't disclose why.  They act like they're protecting the damn nuclear codes.

[gahhda 95]

No, there was something on MMO this morning that said he's heard that Demo is much lower than where they see it.  That was what I was referencing.  It's like they collectively have heard that their numbers are different but won't disclose why.  They act like they're protecting the damn nuclear codes.

 

Cool, maybe i don't need to post logs of me doing less dps than a holy priest to prove celestalon is a fucktard after all.

[Soulzar 42]

1.  

   Nathan Kilker ‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @celestalon when I log in after being told buffs / nerfs are good and one of my specs completely outclasses the other, I get sad / angry

    

   Celestalon ‏@Celestalon Sep 4

   @Zinnin Tuning is iterative. I hear from the community that they're seeing Demo doing way less than we are internally. Trying to find why.

1. Xyronic ‏@Xyroniclol Sep 4

   @Celestalon @Zinnin Did you try turning godmode off?

    

   Nathan Kilker‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @Xyroniclol @Celestalon 'Celestial' Mode

 

Edited September 5, 2014 by Soulzar

[gahhda 95]

 

1.  

   Nathan Kilker ‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @celestalon when I log in after being told buffs / nerfs are good and one of my specs completely outclasses the other, I get sad / angry

    

   Celestalon ‏@Celestalon Sep 4

   @Zinnin Tuning is iterative. I hear from the community that they're seeing Demo doing way less than we are internally. Trying to find why.

1. Xyronic ‏@Xyroniclol Sep 4

   @Celestalon @Zinnin Did you try turning godmode off?

    

   Nathan Kilker‏@Zinnin Sep 4

   @Xyroniclol @Celestalon 'Celestial' Mode

 

 

 

This is why I enjoy talking to zinnin, fucking hilarious.

[Alphric 7]

They took demo which could do good dps and tank. Then they nerfed tank damage. Then they made demo do tank damage. And then they made demo untankable. Give me dps or tank, not neither.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Alphric

[Alphric 7]

...so this was said...

"Warlock (Forums / Skills / WoD Talent Calculator)

Demo just lost 33% dps. Surely in no magical fairy land could anyone ever think that demo is overperforming by 33%.

It was. (Celestalon)"