WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Kazistrasz 216]

If it weren't for stumbling into this guild of mine, I probably wouldn't be playing right now, a year into the same tier. I'm just working extra hard for a couple weeks until 6.0 and WoD with my job so that when they go live and we go back to four days a week, I'll be able to balance raiding and WoW. Whenever I eventually quite WoW, I'll probably use my evenings to go back to martial arts.

[Astynax 24]

Feels weird hearing you guys talk about all of this.... Maybe it's because i've still got another two years of college (and probably then some grad school either law or med) left in me, and I'm not the type of person who has to whole-heartedly devote myself to studying, or because I'm naturally a little bit of a loner... But I can't see myself not wanting to play... Unless, that is, the game fundamentally changes in a lot of ways, and it all goes to shit.... I can't imagine a life for me where I don't come home and on an almost nightly basis spend two or three hours doing dailies, or leveling a toon, or riading, or even just playing SoloQ in LoL... I get locky's point about the Navy and all... But even if I can't be in a heroic guild, pushing hard for progression(I guess this will change to mythic come 6.0, but whatever), and boy have I gone through them in my short MoP experience, I can't see myself not being in a decent normal guild pushing through the content at a moderate pace... I'm not saying I'll always get to play this much- I know better. I'm just saying I can't imagine giving up something I really love just... arbitrarily.

[Soulzar 42]

I didn't raid much in Wrath or Cata as I had a yougin and was trying to focus more on stuff outside of game.  But then my Career became routine and my kid grew up.. and well.. Gaming for life!

[Liquidsteel 279]

I couldn't be happy just raiding normals again, not when I know how it feels to raid at the top.

If I could put myself in a bubble for a few years I would, it's just that I know that my job will mean staying late to finish a project or whatever, and ill never be able to 100% guarantee by availability for 3 nights on the trot during progression.

I had an offer to join Envy a few months ago but turned it down due to knowing I'd be looking for a job come september. I'm hoping I get to play enough to keep my raid spot in WoD (rerolling to Mage for the raid CD may better facilitate this), but I'd sooner quit than find myself having to take a step back and joining a group with lower quality players. I already get frustrated with some of the stuff my guildies mess up on, I don't think I could handle a downgrade at all.

[Alphric 7]

Adulthood is not the end bro!!!! Just about everyone in my guild has a job and child, and we still get by doing heroics and cmodes one night per week. Albeit, its with members of another guild since half of our guild left last summer 2013. (thats the heroics not the cmodes, cmodes is all guild).

[Alphric 7]

There's always room in your life for a badass warlock. 

[Jessix 0]

"Casual Raiding" is entirely possible, just need a skilled group of like-minded raiders. My guild raids 4-5 hours a week and we're on H Thok. Due to the casual nature of the group though we've had to gear up several extra people. If a couple members of our group took their classes more seriously checking forums and strats etc I think we could have got H Garrosh this xpac. That is another downside of a casual raiding schedule, it's hard to tell people to spend time outside game researching their class on a casual schedule.

[Alkeir 1]

Ah, holy shit. I came in here to ask how Demonology was looking in WoD because it's my favorite spec and I want to main it in raids, but apparently I walked into the "I'm so fucking done with this game" apocalypse. What spurred this on?!

[Alphric 7]

Celestelon

[Alkeir 1]

Is there a link to a tweet or something said by celestalon that rustled aforementioned jimmies?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Mainly the fact that we're like 3 or 4 weeks away from 6.0, and so much stuff hasn't been fixed/addressed.

Off the top of my head (correct any mistakes as I stopped playing Beta over a month ago).

- Servitude is a DPS loss.

- Servitude not working with GoServ

- Demonology still broken, SP coefficients are fucked up AND the damage is under tanks and healers.

- Wild Imps buggy. Not target switching or just idling when spawned.

- Doombolt not really worth it when we have Cataclysm as most fights have 2+ targets.

- Loss of fel flame as a fun reducing factor.

- Warlock raid utility gutted. Healthstones rendered useless, gateway range nerfed and generally this ability is a problem. It's either useless or mandatory.

- Many other classes got stackable raid buffs like Mages and Hunters.

- Many other classes got improved mobility, warlocks got reduced; blizzard still claiming the mobility nerfs were a global thing, a blatant lie as only warlocks and elementals got nerfed, everyone else got buffed.

Probably a bunch more things but all I can think of sitting here on my phone.

[Desos 18]

Is there a link to a tweet or something said by celestalon that rustled aforementioned jimmies?

 

And besides the mechanical and scaling issues mentioned by Liquid, it´s the way of communication in general.

Imo these are the last two posts on twitter:

"General discrepancy"

"FYI Shadowbolt"

Edited September 17, 2014 by Desos

[Alkeir 1]

So...demo is going to be trash again, and I'm going to be stuck playing boring-as-fuck destro the entire first raid tier, at least?

[Liquidsteel 279]

No Demo will probably be ok if they make good on their promises. It just feels like it might go the direction of not offering much leeway to distinguish yourself if ToC remains better than Soulfire.

[juribe 1]

So...demo is going to be trash again, and I'm going to be stuck playing boring-as-fuck destro the entire first raid tier, at least?

nah, boring-as-fuck affliction this tier!

 

but hopefully they fix demo. fingers crossed

[Nytemare 2]

Mainly the fact that we're like 3 or 4 weeks away from 6.0, and so much stuff hasn't been fixed/addressed.

Off the top of my head (correct any mistakes as I stopped playing Beta over a month ago).

- Servitude is a DPS loss.

- Servitude not working with GoServ

- Demonology still broken, SP coefficients are fucked up AND the damage is under tanks and healers.

- Wild Imps buggy. Not target switching or just idling when spawned.

- Doombolt not really worth it when we have Cataclysm as most fights have 2+ targets.

- Loss of fel flame as a fun reducing factor.

- Warlock raid utility gutted. Healthstones rendered useless, gateway range nerfed and generally this ability is a problem. It's either useless or mandatory.

- Many other classes got stackable raid buffs like Mages and Hunters.

- Many other classes got improved mobility, warlocks got reduced; blizzard still claiming the mobility nerfs were a global thing, a blatant lie as only warlocks and elementals got nerfed, everyone else got buffed.

Probably a bunch more things but all I can think of sitting here on my phone.

 

How you figure Servitude is a dps lose? From my testing, it seems to be the talent everyone will take with GoSupp, as Terroguard is strong, and get stronger at sub 20% mark.

 

Servitude not working with GoServ I think that supposed to be like that, as all Servitude does it turn you 10min Instant CD demon into a 3 sec+ cast permanent pet. You use the same spell as before. Also, imagine them allowing it to work with GoServ how strong it would be to line it up for sub 20% and summon a second Doomguard that does 20% more damage. As much as that would be awesome, I can see how OP that would be compare to other classes.

 

You are right about us getting raid gutted. HS are useless, portal is trash, and we are in the doghouse it seems.

I glad they remove fel flame, it was a garbage spell thanks to all the nerfs they did to it.

[Liquidsteel 279]

What testing is this? You are literally the only person to say this. In Simcraft it's a DPS loss to use Servitude and from when I was doing dummy tests it was not an increase. You lose the 10m cooldown and the doomguard isn't even stronger than a Fel Imp, so it is indeed a LOSS.

 

Also I disagree with the notion that we shouldn't have Service work with Servitude. The 10 min cooldowns become normal pets, as such they should allow them to work with Service.

 

Blizzard (celestalon) have remained silent on pretty much every warlock topic. I'm getting pretty disheartened with Warlocks in WoD.

[Zagam 1,982]

So...demo is going to be trash again, and I'm going to be stuck playing boring-as-fuck destro the entire first raid tier, at least?

Tuning will be coming out later today. 

 

Also, unless you're bleeding edge progression, you're never "stuck" playing any spec.  Do what you enjoy.  Squeaking out an extra 10k DPS against 300k is inconsequential.

[Lockybalboa 618]

From my testing

 

 

Same as your racial tests? I'm not bashing you, but if that's the same kind of testing that you're using on the talents then it's thin and inconsequential. SimC and all of the theory crafters that I know that have done work on this have come to the same result as Liquid.

 

If you have other data, I'd like to see it. I'm a big believer in 10th man theories.

[Nytemare 2]

No my testing just from trying out each demon and seeing how much they do to mobs around, while doing Dungs and stuff. Doomguard attack and tooltp does the same as the Imp, expect the Imp doesn't get extra 20% damage boost when the mob/boss is at 20%

 

Also yes you lose 10min cd, to gain him permanent, no cd needed, can switch between the two as you see fit. Single only go doomguard, you doing AOE you pull out the Infernal/Abyssal as he has nice plusing AOE + Meteor Strike does lot of damage to multiple targets. 

 

Also SimC only has destro with Cata and using the fel hunter. They don't have you take the Charred Remains + GoSac which results int 80%+ of your DPS from just Chaos Bolt. SimC also says they don't have Demonic Serv added yet as it still off, so right there you can't test SimC with it.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

Just to follow up on the GoServ + Servitude situation, Celestalon has actually said that they are supposed to work together, they just aren't working.

 

Ta-Da!

 

Note that this was from 2 weeks ago, so likely a few more beta builds (seriously how many more can there be?) til we see it.

 

My main concern with Servitude is that I doubt they will manage to only tune the Talent and not the 10 minute cooldown. I'm certain we will run into issues where they just buff both, leading to a situation where it isn't worth taking Servitude.

 

In terms of AoE, I am 100% POSITIVE that the Infernal/Abyssal will be trash tier and not worth taking. You have Cataclysm for all 3 specs, CR for Destro, and in no situation would it be ok for the completely passive talent to end up on top. 

 

Similarly, whilst we can consider that Servitude Terrorguard might be a viable option for heavy movement fights for destruction, I'm 99.9999% sure in those cases Demonology will be the clear winner anyway. I've tested all the heroic and a couple of the Mythic encounters, and damn near all of them contain a second target which makes Demo with Cataclysm the obvious choice (Affliction is doing really well too but you won't catch me playing WoD Affliction ever). I hope that they fix the SP coefficients to make SF > ToC, but even then ToC as a movement tool is really nice and costs very little Fury.

[Zagam 1,982]

YAYAYYA NEW NOTES!

 

Demonology

 

Shadowbolt DOUBLED - 52.5% -> 105%

Touch of Chaos - 40% -> 56%

Demonbolt MORE THAN DOUBLED - 150% -> 375%

Hand of Gul'dan DOUBLED - 68.8% -> 137.6%

Soul Fire DOUBLED - 34% -> 68%

 

DEMONOLOGY DOUBLED - because, you know, none of their numbers were off - it was all us crying that the sky was falling. 

[Zagam 1,982]

Streaming beta dummy tests now.

[juribe 1]

so that's every nerf reverted except corruption i think

[Zagam 1,982]

Demonic Servitude not working.  Pets despawn themselves.  They also have Grim of Supremacy as a buff even though I have Synergy picked.