WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah but doesn't 2% crit damage on the character sheet translate to 4% at the end result? Akin to how the 3% from burning primal actually provides 6% overall.

 

And I guess we'll see how things turn out. Blizzard still have a metric fuck ton of work to do (and not only on Warlocks) to get us in shape for WoD, I'm reserving judgement on talent choices for the most part. I think on any heavy movement fight you won't even want to play Destruction regardless.

 

I also feel like GoSac and Charred Remains will scale extremely well once we obtain a bunch of Mastery heavy gear.

[Soulzar 42]

 

I also feel like GoSac and Charred Remains will scale extremely well once we obtain a bunch of Mastery heavy gear.

 

Yeah, the 70%-80% total dmg from one ability is beyond dumb.  We may as well start saccing our Succubus and spamming Shadowbolt.    Its going to be mastery mastery mastery... since all the ember generation we used to get from haste/crit is just handed out Oprah style with CR.  Good thing our stat attunement is Crit....lol

[Zagam 1,983]

Yeah, the 70%-80% total dmg from one ability is beyond dumb.  

Cataclysm Arcane Mage says, "hello!"

[Nytemare 2]

I can do test with Immolate, Incin, Conflag. I limited to CB and did six of each figure that would give a good idea. I can always redo the Dwarf one, it was strangle that all six did the same damage while both worgen and human each didn't all do the same. 

 

if those other attacks don't crit then yeah maybe human / worgen wins out when you factor everything else. I am a human currently on live. Goal was just test out human redone Human spirit, Dwarf new Passive, and compare it kinda to Worgen right now.

 

I did this test as it seemed Dwarf were going to be the best ally lock race, and like you said in another thread BE for horde.  Also only did it with CB as even now in live most our damage come from that nuke, so it felt right to test around what our biggest damage/dps spell is.

 

Human @ 100 gives .77 Versatlity, it says it scales with level, but I don't think it give anymore then that until we can get pass lv 100. So if you removed all Versatlity but what human give, all your attacks do .77% more then none human lv 100 without Versatlity.

 

Still early, but I think human will keep tied with Worgen pretty much, and the Dwarf will be the stronger race for locks.

[Liquidsteel 279]

No offence but these tests are pointless unless all you're doing is comparing damage between spells.

Destro simcraft is up for download. Just change the race each time and you can see how they compare.

[Nytemare 2]

No offence but these tests are pointless unless all you're doing is comparing damage between spells.

Destro simcraft is up for download. Just change the race each time and you can see how they compare.

 

Idea was to test the spell damage damage with the human new human spirit, and the Dwarf new Might of the mountain to see which race gave a bigger CB and by how much. 

 

Where is the simcraft at? not the current 548-8 that I already have download. Is there a special beta version that has this data?

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

I saw you posted on MMO-C but yeah, just download the one you found and edit the race names to what you want them to be.

[Emy 1]

Is there a place where all the Simcraft logs are shown in 1 picture? Like the ones that used to be posted on Elitist Jerks. I can't seem to find any...

 

[Edit] N/m, I was able to dig this up. It's kinda recent, I'm aware numbers will probably change for certain specs, just trying to find out where we are now in the DPS spectrum. 

 

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/raid-postpatch-9-2-14.html

Edited September 14, 2014 by Emy

[vaeevictiss 17]

It's not obligatory hate - this is his first expansion where he's dealing with masses of criers, whiners, bitchers, and complainers.  I get that he wants to give it back to the people making his life miserable, but he's got a job to do and that's to maintain the best line of communication with the community.  His responses show very little effort, to me at least.

 

I'm not forcing Kaz or Locky to change - I'm pretty flexible with all classes and can min/max anything.  Just haven't decided what to do yet.  As a raid leader, simple classes do well - it's why I've stayed Destruction on most fights whereas I'd love to be Demo or Affliction - they just require too much attention to do as well as Destruction.  I can't really be a melee, so it MIGHT be Spriest or Mage since we're missing both.  We'll see what kinda recruits we get before I make my decision.  Regardless, this is my last expansion of WoW with my current life plan.  Just gotta do something that makes it fun.

 

Ive been a hardcore warlock since vanilla, and ive pushed through all the good and bad changes since then and found ways to make them work and pull good numbers (it only got better when i found your stuff on Icy Veins lol). So ive never gotten to that point where i was like "OH SHIT THE CLASS IS FUCKED! BAIL OUT! BAIL OUT!" like so many people do...until this xpac. People called me crazy and said i was over reacting way too soon but i saw this coming. We were due for it. We've been kings for 10 years.

 

Thats when it all sank in...10 years...Jesus fucking christ ive been playing this for 10 years. Across all my toons i have nearly 1 entire year of /played...over 10 years. Ive wasted one tenth of the last 10 years of my life.

 

Im feeling like you Zag. I basically stopped playing WoW myself in the past couple months. Sure i get on every now and then to check stuff, but i no longer raid. I got frustrated when my guild couldnt get hard modes down. One of the only ones we got was immersius, and due to attendance we had to get pugs, therefore having to be fair on loot with a roll system. Every heroic immersius kill dropped a binding, and every one i lost the roll to a pug who we never raided with again. So the lack of progression and heroic gear going to pugs were two nails in the coffin.

 

Then i was on beta, having fun, the usual character wipe happened but they let us have a premade level 100. Then there was a small group of us, for whatever reason, got wiped again. Blizz would not restore, nor even let us have a new lvl 100 premade...pissed off, this became the 3rd nail in the coffin.

 

Due to my schedule, im forced to be a weekend raider. For 10 years ive had to deal with the fact that weekend guilds, just are nowhere near the caliber of weekday guilds. Obviously, this killed my weekends. I dont get home from work during the week until late. I have time to eat dinner, spend about an hour or two with my wife, go to bed, and do it all over. So, when the weekend rolled around it was nice, but we could really never do much because i always had to be home in time to raid at night. Not raiding for the past two months has been a breath of fresh air. I said to her the other day "holy shit, it feels like i have so much time". I look at the clock at night after having gotten something done and think "jesus, id still be sitting there raiding". 4th nail in the coffin.

 

These nerfs have obviously have been yet another nail in the coffin.

 

The last nail...I really wouldnt even call a nail. Its more of a realization of all previous nails. I have immersed myself deeply into not only the game, but the lore surrounding it. I ran around as the leveling warlock meleeing stuff because the sword i had looked cool lol....to exploring every nook and cranny of Azeroth and Draenor/Outlands and reading every single WoW book. Ive probably killed every last creature in the game...twice. Ive seen things in the game that can never be seen again. Ive made and lost good friends in the game. Ive been a GM in guilds and ive been just the lowly raider that wanted nothing to do with supervisory positions. Im no Zagam, but apparently my name got around because since BC i had people from other servers make toons on mine just to ask me for help with warlock stuff. 

 

But alas, with the coming of MoP. There was a change. I got impatient with people more often. I rage quit groups and raids, including my own guilds. I was in three guilds this xpac because i wasnt happy with any of them. Id yell at people for any mistake they made...and worse of all, my DPS dropped...and i could never get it where it was supposed to be. You'll find more than one post here asking for help. But in the end, it was all me. I just couldnt concentrate...because i honestly didnt care enough to. 

 

So, in closing of my long winded post, and the compiled "nails in the coffin"...I remember a conversation with a guildie the other day...

 

HIM: I saw you havnt been on much lately

ME: yea, just got fed up, maybe WoD will be better

HIM: yea i cant wait to play it and start raiding

 

then i just sat there for a minute...thinking about all this stuff i just wrote here, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Sure, we locks are masochists but i finally had that answer to the question i didnt even have to ask;

 

"WHY"?

 

Ive been much happier since i stopped playing. 10 years has been long enough to see a lot and leave behind a legacy in a game that created a pop culture of its own. I know one thing for sure. I will give WoD a chance...but if it isnt the most out fucking standing thing ive ever played...im done. These nerfs absolutely sealed my fate, as i have no desire to play any other class as a main.

 

If this is also your last Zagam, I have to at least extend a deep thanks for everything you have done for this community...so Thank You.

 

 

 

This shadowbolt nerf reminds me of the great corruption nerf of the pre TBC patch.

 

Ahh hell, that was a buff! That shit scaled infinitely! for about a week at least.

Edited September 14, 2014 by vaeevictiss

[Zagam 1,983]

My biggest contribution was building the community.  I'm far from the best and far from the smartest on these forums, but I'll take the credit for bringing everyone together and keeping the community a great place. 

 

I, too, have a backup plan of going casual if my schedule gets heavy, but I don't know if I could ever play in a casual setting.  For now, full steam ahead into WoD.

 

BTW, you can find some great weekend groups.  As this game ages, so does its players.  There are lots of groups who have different schedules.  While they may be harder to find, if you want, persistence will surely pay off.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Similar(ish) situation here.

 

Three months ago I was expecting to still be playing full on hardcore in WoD (actually stepping up to 5 days a week, no less), however in the past month I managed to find a career which I'll be starting in 8 days, and just this week signed a lease on my own apartment which I'll moving into next weekend.

 

Highly doubt (in fact I'm certain) that I'll likely only be raiding 2-3 days a week despite my guild's plans to do 5 for initial progress. They're an understanding bunch so I'll likely keep my raid spot, but I'm unsure how it will pan out. If I'm missing raids I'll fall behind in both gear and experience. I only play this game to raid, and only if it's at a high level, so I can see myself 'burning out' if I'm unable to properly experience the game.

[Lockybalboa 618]

This is likely my last xpack also, I have about a year of school left then it's real job time and such. Depending on the real job I might keep raiding a little, some mid level progression stuff. But I've also been looking at the Navy and if I go that way then I know for sure this is my last xpack. 

 

*IF* I try to carve out time for some pro faced gaming it will be for Heroes of the Storm. I might get a weekend team for that going. But I feel that is just a pipe dream to keep my soul from dying.

[Kazistrasz 216]

If it weren't for stumbling into this guild of mine, I probably wouldn't be playing right now, a year into the same tier. I'm just working extra hard for a couple weeks until 6.0 and WoD with my job so that when they go live and we go back to four days a week, I'll be able to balance raiding and WoW. Whenever I eventually quite WoW, I'll probably use my evenings to go back to martial arts.

[Astynax 24]

Feels weird hearing you guys talk about all of this.... Maybe it's because i've still got another two years of college (and probably then some grad school either law or med) left in me, and I'm not the type of person who has to whole-heartedly devote myself to studying, or because I'm naturally a little bit of a loner... But I can't see myself not wanting to play... Unless, that is, the game fundamentally changes in a lot of ways, and it all goes to shit.... I can't imagine a life for me where I don't come home and on an almost nightly basis spend two or three hours doing dailies, or leveling a toon, or riading, or even just playing SoloQ in LoL... I get locky's point about the Navy and all... But even if I can't be in a heroic guild, pushing hard for progression(I guess this will change to mythic come 6.0, but whatever), and boy have I gone through them in my short MoP experience, I can't see myself not being in a decent normal guild pushing through the content at a moderate pace... I'm not saying I'll always get to play this much- I know better. I'm just saying I can't imagine giving up something I really love just... arbitrarily.

[Soulzar 42]

I didn't raid much in Wrath or Cata as I had a yougin and was trying to focus more on stuff outside of game.  But then my Career became routine and my kid grew up.. and well.. Gaming for life!

[Liquidsteel 279]

I couldn't be happy just raiding normals again, not when I know how it feels to raid at the top.

If I could put myself in a bubble for a few years I would, it's just that I know that my job will mean staying late to finish a project or whatever, and ill never be able to 100% guarantee by availability for 3 nights on the trot during progression.

I had an offer to join Envy a few months ago but turned it down due to knowing I'd be looking for a job come september. I'm hoping I get to play enough to keep my raid spot in WoD (rerolling to Mage for the raid CD may better facilitate this), but I'd sooner quit than find myself having to take a step back and joining a group with lower quality players. I already get frustrated with some of the stuff my guildies mess up on, I don't think I could handle a downgrade at all.

[Alphric 7]

Adulthood is not the end bro!!!! Just about everyone in my guild has a job and child, and we still get by doing heroics and cmodes one night per week. Albeit, its with members of another guild since half of our guild left last summer 2013. (thats the heroics not the cmodes, cmodes is all guild).

[Alphric 7]

There's always room in your life for a badass warlock. 

[Jessix 0]

"Casual Raiding" is entirely possible, just need a skilled group of like-minded raiders. My guild raids 4-5 hours a week and we're on H Thok. Due to the casual nature of the group though we've had to gear up several extra people. If a couple members of our group took their classes more seriously checking forums and strats etc I think we could have got H Garrosh this xpac. That is another downside of a casual raiding schedule, it's hard to tell people to spend time outside game researching their class on a casual schedule.

[Alkeir 1]

Ah, holy shit. I came in here to ask how Demonology was looking in WoD because it's my favorite spec and I want to main it in raids, but apparently I walked into the "I'm so fucking done with this game" apocalypse. What spurred this on?!

[Alphric 7]

Celestelon

[Alkeir 1]

Is there a link to a tweet or something said by celestalon that rustled aforementioned jimmies?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Mainly the fact that we're like 3 or 4 weeks away from 6.0, and so much stuff hasn't been fixed/addressed.

Off the top of my head (correct any mistakes as I stopped playing Beta over a month ago).

- Servitude is a DPS loss.

- Servitude not working with GoServ

- Demonology still broken, SP coefficients are fucked up AND the damage is under tanks and healers.

- Wild Imps buggy. Not target switching or just idling when spawned.

- Doombolt not really worth it when we have Cataclysm as most fights have 2+ targets.

- Loss of fel flame as a fun reducing factor.

- Warlock raid utility gutted. Healthstones rendered useless, gateway range nerfed and generally this ability is a problem. It's either useless or mandatory.

- Many other classes got stackable raid buffs like Mages and Hunters.

- Many other classes got improved mobility, warlocks got reduced; blizzard still claiming the mobility nerfs were a global thing, a blatant lie as only warlocks and elementals got nerfed, everyone else got buffed.

Probably a bunch more things but all I can think of sitting here on my phone.

[Desos 18]

Is there a link to a tweet or something said by celestalon that rustled aforementioned jimmies?

 

And besides the mechanical and scaling issues mentioned by Liquid, it´s the way of communication in general.

Imo these are the last two posts on twitter:

"General discrepancy"

"FYI Shadowbolt"

Edited September 17, 2014 by Desos

[Alkeir 1]

So...demo is going to be trash again, and I'm going to be stuck playing boring-as-fuck destro the entire first raid tier, at least?