WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Liquidsteel 279]

Synapse Springs have been removed.

 

And no, that's not how AD works. You get 1(ONE) extra Dark Soul over the course of the entire fight. As a result, AD is devalued when you take the glyph.

[Nytemare 2]

Synapse Springs have been removed.

 

And no, that's not how AD works. You get 1(ONE) extra Dark Soul over the course of the entire fight. As a result, AD is devalued when you take the glyph.

 

AD + Glyoh = 2 charges -ea w/ 1min recharge

Start of Fight = 1st DS -> 30 sec you pop 2nd charges (Now 1st ds has 30 sec left) -> 30 sec later you pop 1st one again (2nd has 30 sec) - 30 sec you pop 2nd, Unless I missing something here they seem to line up every 30 sec you can pop one. Each charge is on its on CD from when you used it right? Of course you could be right and all that just adds up to one extra Dark Soul.

 

 

Regarding SS forgot they decide to just remove it and not allow Eng to make everyone a version like they doing with mail box and stuff.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Have you actually used AD at all this tier? The charges do not have separate cooldowns, that would be OP (haha warlocks would be OP, get it?!).

 

With AD you basically float an extra charge, but you never gain more than one use, as once you use it you are locked into the first charges cooldown. Only once that one has come off cooldown will the second charge begin its cooldown process.

[Nytemare 2]

Have you actually used AD at all this tier? The charges do not have separate cooldowns, that would be OP (haha warlocks would be OP, get it?!).

 

With AD you basically float an extra charge, but you never gain more than one use, as once you use it you are locked into the first charges cooldown. Only once that one has come off cooldown will the second charge begin its cooldown process.

 

ROFL

 

I played around with it from time to time, I stick to KJC as I like being able to move and cast Incinerate. That makes sense, but now you got to factor in glyph that takes a whole minute off the cd. might not be ever 30 sec like I said, but at some point it will line up again allow for double Dark soul within 30 sec period (might be during Sub 20%) when it be useful. Even if it only lines up at the start and end, that makes your open burst strong, and then makes your Execute burst strong as well. Only other choices would be KJC (CD), or MF (CD) due to the changes you are limited on what good. I see KJC be super OP with Hunter Fox cd allow for something like 10 sec + of straight movement where you can use any spell. My raid teams has 3 hunters, so come WoD we already plan out it and form the Mystic so far we lose a Hunter but still. 2x Hunter + KJC used at the right time could be OP lol

[Orthios 271]

AD makes DS work like conflag/HoG.  You get 2 charges where the second will not charge until the first is done charging.  

 

If a fight is movement-heavy, the yes KJC+AotF will be great for casting on the move.  6 sec raid-wide movement liberty on a 3 min cd, plus 8 sec personal movement liberty on a 1 min cd.  So if you need to move for 14 sec every 3 min, this gives you a bit more freedom in doing so.  Or if you need to move for 8 sec every 1 min.

 

As for Mannoroth's Fury, I can see this being very good with Cataclysm on multi-target fights.  The cd's align every time (just too bad MF doesn't effect Cataclysm) for some very powerful AoE Burst potential.  Something like Cataclysm>MF>AoE rotation.

[Kazistrasz 216]

AD gives you one extra DS per fight. Period. There's nothing else about it. When you reduce the value of each DS to get it more often with the glyph, you still only get exactly one extra DS, and that one extra DS is at reduced value. The glyph devalues AD. There's nothing you can argue against it.

[Alphric 7]

Demo buffs?  http://replygif.net/i/979.gif

I rofled so freaking hard. 

[Nytemare 2]

AD gives you one extra DS per fight. Period. There's nothing else about it. When you reduce the value of each DS to get it more often with the glyph, you still only get exactly one extra DS, and that one extra DS is at reduced value. The glyph devalues AD. There's nothing you can argue against it.

 

One extra, fifty extra doesn't matter DS is our biggest CD so even one extra burst window is good. Other two options are not appealing if not movement heavy fight, or you have to move more then one every 1 min for 8 sec. While MF only good for fight with straight AOE. Just our choices are limited. So regardless of glyph devalue it, if the other two choices are worthless for the fight, extra DS is a big thing.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

Sorry but who are you arguing with? Nobody said DS was bad. Nobody said AD was bad. People were just explaining how the talents worked because you clearly didn't understand. Just accept that and move on, instead of trying to spin a new angle on your argument like that's what you always meant.

[Zagam 1,982]

I rofled so freaking hard. 

That gif - anytime I'm excited about something, I have to watch this gif - he's just SO excited about whatever his defense did.  Best part is it was on network TV and the announcers are like 'Rob is clearly excited.'  No shit - if anyone speaking English can't tell what he's saying, they ain't been around enough.

 

One extra, fifty extra doesn't matter DS is our biggest CD so even one extra burst window is good. Other two options are not appealing if not movement heavy fight, or you have to move more then one every 1 min for 8 sec. While MF only good for fight with straight AOE. Just our choices are not limited. So regardless of glyph devalue it, if the other two choices are worthless for the fight, extra DS is a big thing.

DS is our ONLY CD in WoD.  The point with AD is that if you're using the glyph, you're getting 60 second intervals on burst, so AD is inconsequential.  Demo has to build fury to have a burst window, not just click Dark Soul and generate extra damage.  If you haven't played on the beta or played Demo extensively, you might not know that building DF is going to take more than 20 seconds to spend it in 10.  AD won't be the talent taken with the glyph if the current model of Demo goes live. 

[Soulzar 42]

Sucks because Glyphing DS cuts the benefit you could get from AD in half :(

[Kazistrasz 216]

It does, and then our choices are between new KJC and MF.

I guess KJC will be nice if there's some sort of movement during a burst phase, but it's kind of lackluster. Then there's MF. To be honest I actually like MF any time I get to use it on live. There are some fights where it can even be useful just to quickly generate some DF, like Spoils.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I'll be taking glyphed Dark Soul with Cataclysm and MF on most fights considering how many have adds.

For those that are more ST oriented, I'll again be taking glyphed DS with Demonbolt and either KJC or AD. KJC is actually much more attractive this tier for Demonology as so much damage comes from those burst windows; it's pretty painful to have to move so the change is good.

[Zagam 1,982]

People haven't put a lot of thought into how badass it'll be to cast your 2-4 Demonbolts WHILE MOVING.  8 second duration on 60 sec CD is legit.  I still wish KJC was a baseline CD, like Shamans have, with a new talent going in place.  Pipedream since we're too close to release. 

[Alphric 7]

The 90 talents have become rather meh worthy. Kiljaedens cunning has the potential to be awesome, but is kinda sketchy as far as coolness goes. Like you said being baseline would be the tits. Archimonde Darkness. This glyph is fucking it....and At least Archimonde's Vengeance was a cool idea.....but mannoroth's fury could be cool too, especially if it affected cataclysm, but that would make it mandatory maybe, maybe not. But what if mannoroth's fury gave you a third guardian demon, a pitlord that was stronger than the demonguard/abyssal, or had a seperate cool down?

[Alphric 7]

like your pit lord from mannoroths fury could have a 5 min cd so that we have more uptime on our big dicks like shamans do. 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Not a fan of that idea to be honest, I think MF should go back to what it was. The damage increase has effectively turned it into a crutch for Demonology which makes your AoE feel meh without it. For Destro and Afflic it's just worthless.

Bringing it back to a passive radius increase would be my dream, and would allow them to bring Immolation Aura back up to reasonable levels.

[Zagam 1,982]

Not a fan of that idea to be honest, I think MF should go back to what it was. The damage increase has effectively turned it into a crutch for Demonology which makes your AoE feel meh without it. For Destro and Afflic it's just worthless.

Bringing it back to a passive radius increase would be my dream, and would allow them to bring Immolation Aura back up to reasonable levels.

Completely agreed.  Wasn't anything wrong with MF back in ToT. 

[Nytemare 2]

Liquid my comments about DS was direct toward Destro not Demo. Like I said in a post I have not done demo in years. about time I was relearning it they nerf the trinket and imps and destro became king so I just stayed with Destro. 

 

I have no clue how demo plays or how fast it can gain DF, my comments are for destro only. Due to being on beta I figure it was best to test and play spec I knew top to bottom and report back on it for my guild/raid then to try and play a spec I don't nothing about, and report back wrong information.

 

Your idea of taking MF + Cata is great for Demo, seem to know that spec. Regardless MF+ Cata is crap to a destro lock. We don't need some weak 1min cd to apply immolate to all target we have a simple FNB that can do it for the same 1gcd. So for the AE fights you mention I see Charred Remains + maybe MF but most likely come down to either AD or KJC. Since destro can get mass ember fast I thinking AD will win out. Me Personally I most likely just stick to KJC for the Oh shit movement that might happen during CB cast.

 

 

Regarding Pit Lord idea, I second that. So want a Pit Lord

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

You should check out Brusalk's posts about his experiences with Destro over on MMO-C, Nytemare.

 

Chaotic Resources isn't that great for Destro AoE, and he's actually (iirc) using Cataclysm for those scenarios. FnB Chaos Bolts aren't that big of a deal because of how nerfed your Incinerates are with that talent. What you lose in Incinerates you gain in Chaos Bolts, if that makes sense. As such Cataclysm seems to be the preferred choice, at least in his opinion.

 

I haven't really tested anything other than Demo because if I stick with my Warlock, that is the spec I'm going to play. Otherwise it will be Mage as I'm not going to touch Affliction if I can help it, and after playing nothing but Destro for 8 months of this tier I'm kind of burned out with it.

 

Personally, for Destruction I prefer not using the Dark Soul glyph in favour of taking AD. Rain of Fire isn't worth much so MF is still kinda useless. KJC is a potential contender, but as I mentioned previously, any fight which forces too much movement won't be a Destruction fight - you'll play Demo.

 

This kinda brings me onto another point, in that I get the feeling that Destruction will be a niche spec next tier. If Demonology outclasses or matches it in ST damage, then it will become the de facto spec due to its vastly superior mobility. The only fights Destro will shine on are continuous AoE such as Beastlord Darmac. And even then, Demo with 2pc will literally be swimming in continuous fury thanks to 100% HoG uptime and will likely hold its own anyway.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[juribe 1]

They were testing Beastlord and I caught a few streams, Demo locks were doing extremely well. It was the top spec on the streams I was seeing. I think I saw some destro doing well though.

[Nytemare 2]

Liquid that is cool, if Charred Remains is crap I am cool with that, then I take Cata as I mostly likely be still using GoSac (so glad they made it give CB a flat damage buff (not in the form of a lame Dot that could be clipped).

 

Charred Remains just seems nice, but Destroy never needed help getting embers so it was nice bonus, but not needed. On live for fights like General (Start), Sha of Pride (with reflections), and Garry (P1) I can drop a FnB + Immolate -> ROF and spam 5+ CB and still have 2.5+ embers left when all adds are dead. This is when I start at one ember. So extra passive that makes me get more CB off I am cool. Immolate has always been a weak spell (dot) so not big deal there. Incinerate on the other hand is a big deal. 

 

Personally I like to go GoSupp + KjC + Demonic Serv as running around/using a Terrorguard 100% of the time is epic. Also love using Abyssal for AOE fights. He my new tank pet, so much better than a Voidlord

 

You mention a post on MM-C would you mind linking it, since you have it right now.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

I don't have it right now, just go look up Brusalk and go through his most recent posts.

[Nytemare 2]

I don't have it right now, just go look up Brusalk and go through his most recent posts.

 

I believe this was the post you were talking about? http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1531700-WoD-Beta-Destruction-Discussion

[Liquidsteel 279]

No that's called a 'Thread'. You just linked the whole Beta thread.

 

Cuz you're lazy and I had to do it for you ^^.

 

Above is a link to Brusalk's most recent posts. You can see his results of testing Destro, the general conclusion is Single Target is trash tier but AoE is godlike; all of it done without CR.