WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Alkeir 1]

I'm SO happy to hear demonology is doing good right now ^_^

[Nytemare 2]

No that's called a 'Thread'. You just linked the whole Beta thread.

 

Cuz you're lazy and I had to do it for you ^^.

 

Above is a link to Brusalk's most recent posts. You can see his results of testing Destro, the general conclusion is Single Target is trash tier but AoE is godlike; all of it done without CR.

 Lolz I see nothing but Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. I link the thread for Destro that he posted in, that what I was referring to. I figure some where in there is what you mention, just have not fully ready all 38 pages

Edited September 19, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

Well then just click his name and select 'view posts', it's not rocket science. He made these comments yesterday, that's why I said read his latest posts. The Beta threads were created months ago, reading all 38 pages would be retarded.

[Nytemare 2]

Well then just click his name and select 'view posts', it's not rocket science. He made these comments yesterday, that's why I said read his latest posts. The Beta threads were created months ago, reading all 38 pages would be retarded.

 

Saw some posts he made on page 37, but thanks I have a tab of his stuff, plan to do some reading

[Alphric 7]

Not a fan of that idea to be honest, I think MF should go back to what it was. The damage increase has effectively turned it into a crutch for Demonology which makes your AoE feel meh without it. For Destro and Afflic it's just worthless.

Bringing it back to a passive radius increase would be my dream, and would allow them to bring Immolation Aura back up to reasonable levels.

Just trying to think outside the box dawg :p

[Alphric 7]

But I can also agree with that, I liked the 90 talents in 5.2.

[Alphric 7]

How does demon bolt compare to chaos bolt? Is demon weaker on the first and about the same on the second, stronger on a third cast? I'm kind of excited to see max scores on demon bolt.

[Nytemare 2]

I think I going to use this time to try and relarn demo using the beta. Zag any chance we can get a whole demo rotation break down like you have for 5.4 (Opener, middle, Execute, etc) I can use SimC but since things are changing don't know if Alpha like a list built to follow to max DPS

[Lockybalboa 618]

Build DF. Dump DF. Repeat. 

[Nytemare 2]

Build DF. Dump DF. Repeat. 

 

That only works if you ever played Demo in MOP and have clue how to, for me I have no clue, and since Zag already when I asked that Demo rotation/Priotiry is different from live (where I was thinking just add in Demobolt / more HoD (w/2pc or 4pc (don't recall which gives charges)) and was told not, so now I like to know how to play Demo. 

 

Saying Build DF, Dump DF, Repeat is the same thing you can say to Destro - Build Embers, Dump embers, repeat; however, it doesn't tell a person on what spells to do when, what to open with etc.. So  I need/ would love that break down for Demo 6.0.1

Edited September 21, 2014 by Nytemare

[Lockybalboa 618]

You missed the sarcasm. Demo in MoP is complex and requires very high end play to produce high end DPS. Comparatively, WoD demo is stunningly dumbed down to the point where it is basically build, dump, repeat. 

[Nytemare 2]

You missed the sarcasm. Demo in MoP is complex and requires very high end play to produce high end DPS. Comparatively, WoD demo is stunningly dumbed down to the point where it is basically build, dump, repeat. 

 

I missed nothing, I know you are good at Demo, just like I know Zag is. So changes they made of course going to feel dumb down as maybe nothing changed much. But I am sure blizzard didn't gut Demo to the point anyone can pick it up learn it, and master it. They took Balance druid from Hard to learn, easy to Master to Easy to learn, hard to master. So that same principle has to apply to demo. 

 

So other words Demo is easy to play  - insane to master  (lol), even if it easy still need to know how to open up and what the priority/ rotation is. I just need that so I can start to learn it,

 

I could just learn 5.4 version but that does me no good with the changes they made in WoD, as CD were removed and everything. 

[Zilthy 36]

I missed nothing, I know you are good at Demo, just like I know Zag is. So changes they made of course going to feel dumb down as maybe nothing changed much. But I am sure blizzard didn't gut Demo to the point anyone can pick it up learn it, and master it. They took Balance druid from Hard to learn, easy to Master to Easy to learn, hard to master. So that same principle has to apply to demo. 

 

That same principle does not apply to Demo at all in this case.   With the removal of shapshotting on DoTs, and stance dancing for HoG shadowflame damage, and lot of the complexity has been removed from the spec.

 

Now it is a lot simpler:  Keep dots up, build resources and spend them wisely.  Locky was spot on here.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Zilthy

[Nytemare 2]

That same principle does not apply to Demo at all in this case.   With the removal of shapshotting on DoTs, and stance dancing for HoG shadowflame damage, and lot of the complexity has been removed from the spec.

 

Now it is a lot simpler:  Keep dots up, build resources and spend them wisely.  Locky was spot on here.

 

Maybe spec is easier, fine, still need a rotation on what to cast at the start. Once you get opener going then we can worry about stance dancing and everything else. Like I figure we cast HoD only when In Meta (after of course opener part), but I have no clue on what I do at the start of a fight. This is part I trying to get. 

 

Break down of Priority would be great so I have something to follow as I learn. Could just start a lv 1 but that does no good as you don't get all the tools until later. 

[Rrasis 13]

1. Keep Corruption applied on the target.
   • Corruption is extended when you cast Touch of Chaos while in Metamorphosis, so you will generally not have to refresh it manually. That said, if Corruption is about to drop and you have no reason to enter Metamorphosis, then you can refresh it manually.
2. Cast Hand of Gul'dan when you have two charges.
3. Cast Hand of Gul'dan when you have a charge and Shadowflame has between 3 and 4 seconds left on the target.
4. Cast Soul Fire if you are about to reach 10 stacks of Molten Core.
5. Cast Shadow Bolt as a filler.

While in Metamorphosis, use the following rotation.

1. Apply Doom or reapply it
   • if it has less than 30 seconds remaining;
2. Use Soul Fire on Molten Core procs.
   • If you feel your Demonic Fury generation is too low, then you can save some Molten Core procs to cast Soul Fire outside Metamorphosis and generate Demonic Fury.
3. Spam Touch of Chaos.

When the target is below 25% health, you will be able to cast Soul Fire on demand, thanks to Decimation. In this case, spam Soul Fire while in Metamorphosis and cast Touch of Chaos when you need to extend Corruption. If your Demonic Fury generation feels too low to spam Soul Fire, you can cast Soul Fire from time to time and spam Touch of Chaos the rest of the time.

[Zilthy 36]

The opener is going look pretty much the same as it is currently, and that is in the guides.  You just won't be doing the second Doom on big procs (that will happen about 30 seconds in to the fight to extend with pandemic and every minute after that) and you won't necessarily need to pop in to meta right after the 2nd HoG although you will want to be able to dump as much fury as you during opener cds and procs (and your choices there will be demon bolt or soul fire).

 

The current openers will serve you well there, just ignore the snapshotting items.  They detail the quick build and release of the opener quite well.

[Nytemare 2]

Well that helps a little I guess, not really want I was hoping. Hoping for more of a WoD breakdown with the changes.

 

Also lose CD so that throws a wrench into the rotation, plus we now have LV 100 talents, new Dark Soul Glyph. See where I am going here, due to new stuff rotation is not the same, and from those who test Demo in raid test I hoping can give me a full breakdown on it from start to finish using all the current tools + new change (talents, glyphs, etc...)

Edited September 22, 2014 by Nytemare

[Rrasis 13]

That Demo now, not how it played in beta according Zag when I asked that. We add in Hod dancing, and other stuff. That gives me idea on what I can do after the opener.

 

I figured you were just being lazy and not wanting to look up information on your own. Asking for a complete rotation breakdown before the expansion even goes live is pretty retarded. A lot can change in the next 8 weeks and asking someone else to do the work for you when he'll just end up having to redo the work once there are changes is pretty selfish.

You really don't need to know more than the information above the play the spec competently in beta, based off your 6/14 status that's probably all you'll need anyways until raids start 3 weeks into the expansion roughly 3 months away.

[Nytemare 2]

I figured you were just being lazy and not wanting to look up information on your own. Asking for a complete rotation breakdown before the expansion even goes live is pretty retarded. A lot can change in the next 8 weeks and asking someone else to do the work for you when he'll just end up having to redo the work once there are changes is pretty selfish.

You really don't need to know more than the information above the play the spec competently in beta, based off your 6/14 status that's probably all you'll need anyways until raids start 3 weeks into the expansion roughly 3 months away.

 

Zag and them play Demo on beta, done raid testing with Demo they best person to ask for how to play Demo in WoD right now. They had a chance to learn it with all the new tools, I know how to play Destro with the new tools, just not Demo. I knew destro as I main that now so figuring on how new tools fit in was easier. Now for Demo I do not play that spec, nor have I played it since WotLK (took cata off), so I am completely lost on how to fit the new tools into what demo does.

 

New lv 100 talents, new glyphs,, GoSin (or whatever it is called), plus fact snap shooting is removed, and CD have been removed leaving only like what? 1 DS.

I wasn't expect him to write up a whole guide like he did with 5.4 spec, just more of a quick break down Priority wise. 

Can be what you post, then at some point we want to pop Cata/MF something like that so I have idea. Demonbolt gets added  (ST) so that is just using 2x then going back to Soul Fire until debuff or whatever is off, then back to 2x Demonbolt when over soul fire when its time.

 

To learn a spec at max level and test it out, one must know how to play it, and who better to help then Zag and those who done the testing with the spec in question. Not trying to be lazy, I just have no clue what to even do.

[Desos 18]

Right now, it would be sisyphus work to write down something larger and more detailed than what Rrasis posted. Beta is all about finding out what is best. You can actually participate in this by trying different stuff and posting numbers/logs, because you have the opportunity to beta test, which is something not everyone has(I don´t). If you just want to train for WoD, you will have almost 3 weeks until raiding starts.

[Zagam 1,982]

Damage tuning is still (unfortunately) not complete.  Demonbolt will change in priority and how we use it based on final calculations.  Right now, it's the run away winner and there's debate on how many times you should cast it per burn phase.  I've seen anywhere from 2 to 4.  Personally, I've been using 2 if I have 5+ Molten Core charges and 3 if I have less than 5.  There's some math behind that, but I'm not divulging it yet until I see if the damage coefficient drops from 375% to something more reasonable like 275-325%.  If it stays at 375%, Molten Core charges will be more valuable in caster form building DF back up to burn in Meta.  The spec is completely done except for Demonbolt - once it's figured out, a few of us will optimize how to play it.

 

With that said, remember that no spec ever plays just like it is.  Just because we tell you it's a maximum DPS situation to cast 3 Demonbolts each burn phase doesn't mean the encounter you're in will let you stand and cast.  With the "dumbing down" of each spec, there will be opportunities for skilled players to differentiate themselves from lesser skilled players with pre-positioning plans and rotational adjustments made on the fly.  There won't be any more of the rules like 'wait until you're below 65% to cast Life Tap' for Affliction, for example.  Instead, if all your DoTs are at a high duration and you have to move, boom, there's your Life Tap opportunity.  Same goes for Demonology - let's say you have to move in today's raid.  You might pop Meta and cast a few ToCs or just Fel Flame.  In WoD, FF is gone and ToC is garbage - you might also not want to toss 80 Demonic Fury because of a need to build for it, so you'd just Life Tap instead of trying to dish more damage since in the long haul, you'll gain more damage by getting your Life Tap in there. 

 

Playstyle wise, none of the specs have changed except for all the 'nuances' like snapshotting the 4pc for Immolate Burning Ember generation, snapshotting Doom, and snapshotting Affliction DoTs.  Below is how you'll play each spec to 90-95% of theoretical max...

 

Destro = keep Immolate up, use Conflagrate while moving or capped on charges, use Chaos Bolt during procs, use Incinerate otherwise. 

Demo = keep Doom and Corruption up, use Life Tap while moving, use Shadow Bolt to build DF, use Soul Fire and Demonbolt to spend DF, use Metamorphosis during procs if more powerful than Dark Soul

Afflic = keep DoTs up, use Haunt during procs, use Drain Soul, Life Tap while moving

[Nytemare 2]

Thanks Zag that help. Not full detailed list like a guide but does tell me why to look for. I forgot Demo has to life tap to get mana. So for Meta only you say go Meta if more powerful procs then Dark Soul. What proc would beat Dark Soul 30% Mastery?

 

Also is the Dark Soul Glyph used for Demo much? I keep hearing DF hard to get, so being able to do it every 50sec but not be worth it for Demo is they can't get DF needed in time?

 

 

Regarding tuning I have a feeling this go live like this. Then they all sudden nerf Demo and change everything week 1 or 2 into raiding when they should of took care of it now. 

 

Maybe I just blind, but where can I pick up my lock T17 set at so I can play using it? Do I need to do raid like I would for live? I try to stay away from raids so I don't have to deal with bosses being bug (if any).

[Zagam 1,982]

So for Meta only you say go Meta if more powerful procs then Dark Soul. What proc would beat Dark Soul 30% Mastery?

Haven't seen/measured the procs to know this yet. 

 

Also is the Dark Soul Glyph used for Demo much? I keep hearing DF hard to get, so being able to do it every 50sec but not be worth it for Demo is they can't get DF needed in time?

We're not in WoD yet, so it can't be measured if it's being used much yet.  We also have to wait until Demonbolt scaling is done to see if the glyph will facilitate its proper use.  If we can't generate enough DF to burn in 10 second cycles, then it won't be much.  Currently, you can get 5 spells in 10 seconds, so it's usually 2 DBs and 3 SFs or 3 DBs and 2 SFs.  With some Haste, not likely to be in the first tier, you might get more spells in.  That means we have 50 seconds to generate about 600 DF - which should be more than enough time considering HoG, Shadowbolt, and pets generating DF.

 

Regarding tuning I have a feeling this go live like this. Then they all sudden nerf Demo and change everything week 1 or 2 into raiding when they should of took care of it now. 

 

Maybe I just blind, but where can I pick up my lock T17 set at so I can play using it? Do I need to do raid like I would for live? I try to stay away from raids so I don't have to deal with bosses being bug (if any).

Tuning takes weird turns.  People bitch about Demo not being tuned well now, but it's fine.  More people will bitch if you have to play the spec properly to do good DPS.  Affliction and Destruction will be, without a doubt, easier to play. 

 

Your T17 set on the beta is located near the Horde AH closest to the entrance of the city.  There are two oversized Taurens wearing top hats that sell lots of good shit.  Make a premade level 100 on the PvP server so you come equipped with 660 gear.  Sub in the 680 tier pieces to see where you'll sit in the equivalent of today's "Normal" type gear.

[Scathbais 1]

Maybe spec is easier, fine, still need a rotation on what to cast at the start. Once you get opener going then we can worry about stance dancing and everything else. Like I figure we cast HoD only when In Meta (after of course opener part), but I have no clue on what I do at the start of a fight. This is part I trying to get. 

 

Break down of Priority would be great so I have something to follow as I learn. Could just start a lv 1 but that does no good as you don't get all the tools until later. 

The old EJ Forum mods would love you.

[Alphric 7]

So

 

With that said, remember that no spec ever plays just like it is.  Just because we tell you it's a maximum DPS situation to cast 3 Demonbolts each burn phase doesn't mean the encounter you're in will let you stand and cast.  With the "dumbing down" of each spec, there will be opportunities for skilled players to differentiate themselves from lesser skilled players with pre-positioning plans and rotational adjustments made on the fly.  There won't be any more of the rules like 'wait until you're below 65% to cast Life Tap' for Affliction, for example.  Instead, if all your DoTs are at a high duration and you have to move, boom, there's your Life Tap opportunity.  Same goes for Demonology - let's say you have to move in today's raid.  You might pop Meta and cast a few ToCs or just Fel Flame.  In WoD, FF is gone and ToC is garbage - you might also not want to toss 80 Demonic Fury because of a need to build for it, so you'd just Life Tap instead of trying to dish more damage since in the long haul, you'll gain more damage by getting your Life Tap in there. 

 

 

So really by "dumbing it down" they've made it to where there's less use X because Y and they've made things more situational, make you think about more stuff going on during the fight instead of just stand in a spot and press the buttons Zagam/Spark/ETC. told me to. Seems pretty welcome to me. There could even be fights where you can't do an opener....but pretty much the rule of the opener has been pop your shit, throw down your dots, and hit the bitch with your hardest shit as much as possible. That's the general idea right?

 

Also I'm just going to say:

 

EVERYBODY JUST CALM YOUR TITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and wait....

 

because.

 

it.

is.

coming.

 

.....

SOOON!!!!!

 

There's no use in worrying about it until after 6.0 happens and then just wait until we get the new, FINALIZED mechanics and tunings and test them out in the live world. And then roll with the findings. And in 6.0 we still won't have demonbolt, so the aforementioned rotation is good to go.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Alphric