WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Lockybalboa 618]

Still, stuff like that might have been possible again in WoD, you can thank the whiners that it won't...

 

QFT

[Oldtrout 7]

It would been cool to make Demo have a tank side, but I loved the glyph because it was cool.

 

Ah thanks, yeah not on 100 yet, will have to check that out.

100% agreed the coolness of it was totally cool

[RethulUrNo 2]

According to Xelnath, one of the earliest iterations of MoP Demonology was that of a full-fledged tank spec.  When the other Devs intervened at the defense of Demonology-as-DPS, the glyph was created as a way to sort of incompletely preserve the tank model as an alternate playstyle for Warlocks.

 

I don't think you can blame people for getting excited about the prospects of filling another role, as Dark Apotheosis in early MoP Beta was a somewhat effective "proof of concept".  The glyph was overtuned, but DA had a functional Active Mitigation system and -- for many people -- played like a tank spec.

 

Problem was, it would have been a bit of extra work for them to make stat conversions and set bonuses work, nor did they include any way to prevent bear-catting.  Even if we could parry, that stat wasn't on cloth gear nor was dodge.  In that respect they were only halfway there.

 

With them removing tank stats (other than bonus armor) and letting tier gear change between roles, some of those hurdles are now gone.  It would probably be easier now for them to make it work than it was in MoP, but either way the glyph is obviously dead.

 

I feel like Dark Apotheosis could have been removed as a glyph and attached to one of our talents (like Gladiator Stance for Warriors) that had a basic damage benefit that Demo could spec into for DPS, while also providing a combat-locked Meta form that would make players choose one role before a fight and stick with it.  Still, they likely would have had to design a set bonus for DA....so it wasn't without issue.

 

I would have enjoyed having it.  Druids and now Warriors each have four specs, so I don't feel like it would have been special treatment.  Blaming the people who campaigned for Lock tanking as the reason the glyph was removed is probably making a big logical leap.  If the devs said they removed it because of the players, I missed that communication.

 

"Go play a real tank if you want to tank" is too much of a punchless throwaway comment to me.  This is what they said to Paladins and Druids in Vanilla, and there's a reason why they moved away from that.  I love my Blood DK and Prot Warrior (never had more fun leveling a spec!) and would welcome another flavor of tanking as well.  It goes without saying that it's also easier to gear up an off-spec than it is to gear up an entirely different toon.

 

Variety is a good thing, but DA was just a little bit ahead of its time.

Edited September 28, 2014 by RethulUrNo

[Lockybalboa 618]

"Go play a real tank if you want to tank" is too much of a punchless throwaway comment to me.  This is what they said to Paladins and Druids in Vanilla, and there's a reason why they moved away from that.  I love my Blood DK and Prot Warrior (never had more fun leveling a spec!) and would welcome another flavor of tanking as well.  It goes without saying that it's also easier to gear up an off-spec than it is to gear up an entirely different toon.

 

Variety is a good thing, but DA was just a little bit ahead of its time.

 

 

Difference is that Druids, Paladins, Warriors, and Death Knights all have dedicated TANKING specs and dedicated DPS specs. The problems in Vanilla where only warriors tanked because they were the best for it were a numbers and mechanics fail on Blizz's part, because classes that HAD tank specs couldn't use them. You can see this happen a few more times during Blizz's history, such as (but not limited to) Ret pally in BC, frost mage for...most of WoW, Resto Shaman during first 2/3rds of Cata, etc.

 

Warlocks are one of the very few dedicated DPS classes. Randomly turning one of their specs in to a tanking spec just wasn't logical. Maybe if there was a 4th spec added for ALL of the classes then it would have worked, but the idea of stealing a DPS spec and replacing it with a tanking spec after 8 years of three dedicated DPS specs was moronic. Thus why the over Devs stepped in and stopped the madness.

 

I'm totally open to the idea of a new tanking model, the DA glyph would be a good jumping off point to build one, but only if it was given to a new class. Such as a Demon Hunter Hero class in the next xpack (the one after WoD) I could see that as being very cool and working well with the game and the dynamic set forth.

 

Giving the ability to tank to any class that didn't already have a tanking spec is a mistake, especially after they took the ability to off-tank away from classes like Shaman years ago. I have a Brady Games first Ed. World of Warcraft guide book laying around my house somewhere but I'm not sure where it is, but if I remember right it had 3 or 4 of the OG classes listed as "Possible off tanks" shamans being one of them, because they could use a shield, had Rockbiter, and used mail armor. Sadly, they lost that ability. Blizz had there reasons and took the off tank slot away from pretend tanks to give it to real tanks only.

 

A game as large as WoW needs two things above all else, consistency and balance. Both were violated with the addition of the DA glyph.

[Alphric 7]

#reasons

[Hurtlocker 11]

With demon bolt, the cost increase is reduced by haste.  Anyone now how haste is affecting it?  Not sure if there is a formula out there for it.  Forgive me if I am asking a question that was already answered.  

Edited September 29, 2014 by Hurtlocker

[Zagam 1,982]

I believe the debuff to the cost increase is what is affected by Haste, not the actual Demonic Fury cost.

 

Baseline debuff is 40 seconds, so CD would be reduced similar to other things.  50% Haste would reduce the CD down to 20 sec, 25% Haste would reduce it to 30 seconds, etc.

[Hurtlocker 11]

Derp, read it wrong.  tnx.

[Orthios 271]

I believe the debuff to the cost increase is what is affected by Haste, not the actual Demonic Fury cost.

 

Baseline debuff is 40 seconds, so CD would be reduced similar to other things.  50% Haste would reduce the CD down to 20 sec, 25% Haste would reduce it to 30 seconds, etc.

Wouldn't it work like the current CDR trinkets (and everything else that's effected by haste for that matter) where the debuff timer is 40/(1+Haste%)?  So that 50% haste is 26.67s and 25% is 32s.

[Zagam 1,982]

Most likely, since with a combination of Haste buffs, having a CD of 0 isn't likely.  I haven't looked into the actual formulas yet - waiting on that magnificent posting of RPPM, ICD, and other values with the latest bout of trinkets to know if they're changing that formula at all.

[Hurtlocker 11]

The basis for my question was that there is a Haste on use trinket from one of the raid bosses in WoD based on current loot tables.  I was just thinking ahead on possible synergies.  

[JvChequer 43]

Looks like Orc > Belf for both Demo and Belf to WOD, am I right?

[Zagam 1,982]

Looks like Orc > Belf for both Demo and Belf to WOD, am I right?

Looks to be largely irrelevant.  Pick which one looks better to you.

 

Blood Fury + 1% pet damage vs 1% Crit and 3% mana return + interrupt.  Don't devalue Arcane Torrent - that ability single-handedly makes Garrosh transitions smooth as hell and surely will come into play in WoD.

[Janglybits 1]

Looks to be largely irrelevant.  Pick which one looks better to you.

 

Blood Fury + 1% pet damage vs 1% Crit and 3% mana return + interrupt.  Don't devalue Arcane Torrent - that ability single-handedly makes Garrosh transitions smooth as hell and surely will come into play in WoD.

I'm really, really sick of being a Troll.  I was convinced I was going to race change back to Forsaken, but the new Orc models look really good, and I keep feeling like I'd be leaving some damage on the table.

[Zagam 1,982]

I'm really, really sick of being a Troll.  I was convinced I was going to race change back to Forsaken, but the new Orc models look really good, and I keep feeling like I'd be leaving some damage on the table.

I was, too.  So far this tier, I've been an Orc, Troll, Goblin, Troll, Orc, Troll, and finally, a Blood Elf.  That's just T16.  To be fair, it's been a year, but I get a little crazy ordering race changes.  If you could only see my transaction history - it's embarrassing. 

 

I could argue for and against each.  I won't stick with one, I can assure you of that.

[Zagam 1,982]

Oh god.  I just calculated my transaction history total.

 

$1,451.37.  Must...control...impulse...to buy pets, game time for friends, and stuff.

 

21 Transfers @ 25/per = $525.00

13 Race Changes @ 25/per = $325.00

4 Faction Changes @ 30/per = $120.00

2 Reaper of Souls @ 49.99/per = $99.98

4 Game Time @ 14.99/per = $59.96

WoD = $49.99

Cata = $39.99

3 Name Changes @ 10/per = $30.00

8 pets @10/per = $80.00

 

I have a bunch of random WoW/MoP keys purchased that I gifted.  I've gifted all of those pets except 2 of them.  I guess over 5+ years, that's not terrible.  Hopefully no more transfers!  The worst was leaving Mal'Ganis and bringing all 11 of my 90s with me (11 x 25 = $275) and then bringing 8 of them back (8 x 25 = 200) for a total of $475 just to join a guild to have it break up just over 4 months later.

[Hurtlocker 11]

Haha, I got scolded by my wife for my transactions.  I had a few xfers to Cho'gall only to have to move them too.

[Zagam 1,982]

Danielle would only scold me if some of those pets didn't end up in her pocket.  I'm not the brightest guy in the world, but I'm ok staying ahead of the curve.

[Hurtlocker 11]

Unfortunately, my wife does not play wow.  I have to use other means to smooth things over, namely, jewelry or flowers.

[Liquidsteel 279]

I've spent £632.97 on transactions since August 2011. I actually started playing back in 2006, and I know for sure that I bought at least a few services during WotLK in 2009/10.

[Nytemare 2]

IN 9yrs my lock has transfer sever twice, and went from female to male (in start of wotlk) but that it. extra money I spend usually just on new pet/mount to be added.

[Zagam 1,982]

When I do my Extra-Life event coming up on Oct 25, I'll be spending around $200 as I give away pets and a copy of WoD to some of the participants/viewers of the 24 hour stream.  My total will go up, but for a good cause.

[juribe 1]

Looks to be largely irrelevant.  Pick which one looks better to you.

 

Blood Fury + 1% pet damage vs 1% Crit and 3% mana return + interrupt.  Don't devalue Arcane Torrent - that ability single-handedly makes Garrosh transitions smooth as hell and surely will come into play in WoD.

fight the good fight

 

#TaurenWarlocks2015

[Doonga 0]

Oh god.  I just calculated my transaction history total.

 

$1,451.37.  Must...control...impulse...to buy pets, game time for friends, and stuff.

 

21 Transfers @ 25/per = $525.00

13 Race Changes @ 25/per = $325.00

4 Faction Changes @ 30/per = $120.00

2 Reaper of Souls @ 49.99/per = $99.98

4 Game Time @ 14.99/per = $59.96

WoD = $49.99

Cata = $39.99

3 Name Changes @ 10/per = $30.00

8 pets @10/per = $80.00

 

I have a bunch of random WoW/MoP keys purchased that I gifted.  I've gifted all of those pets except 2 of them.  I guess over 5+ years, that's not terrible.  Hopefully no more transfers!  The worst was leaving Mal'Ganis and bringing all 11 of my 90s with me (11 x 25 = $275) and then bringing 8 of them back (8 x 25 = 200) for a total of $475 just to join a guild to have it break up just over 4 months later.

 

If it makes you feel any better I have over $1000 in just server transfers. Never mind the race changes and recustomizations...

[kijahroo 1]

I have not noticed the new abilities with quests... Perhaps that's for pet classes? I was playing on an ele shaman and did not see a quest reward like that once. Also has anyone else noticed how rare Spirit seems to be?

Edited September 30, 2014 by kijahroo