WOD BETA DISCUSSION w/SCREENSHOTS

[Zilthy 36]

The one thing I have not seen mentioned yet, and is the greatest tragedy for locks is Demo losing GoSac.  Why?  Because I will no longer be able to charge as a warlock, and that is just plain funsies!  :D

[Soulzar 42]

The one thing I have not seen mentioned yet, and is the greatest tragedy for locks is Demo losing GoSac.  Why?  Because I will no longer be able to charge as a warlock, and that is just plain funsies! 

 

Haha, your felguard will be happy to charge for you! :D

 

I really like the design of Synergy for Demo.

[Desos 18]

And if it isn´t happy, get a glyph and a nice weapon for your guard. Felguards love weapons. Mine has a hc Xalatoh and is happy, although it now has to hold the blade to the direction it´s whirling to.

[Eddie 16]

I gave my Wrathguard a pair of Armageddon Blades, and he's never been happier!

 

*EDIT* Yes, I did hunt down two Armageddon so that Arix-Barash can have matching weapons.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Eddie

[Zagam 1,982]

Armageddon x2 is what the Wrathguard was skinned for.  Fact.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Sucks that they scale down the weapons though.

[Alphric 7]

Yeah I was disapoint when I put them on my wrathguard. I think the original Ashkandi ends up bigger? It at least looks bigger when being held by the felguard, which looks really really good together.

[Nytemare 2]

Maybe I missed it but been checking out the talents seems from my time either go

 

Charred Reamins + GoSac for Destro, or you go GoSup + Demonic Serv for the strong Terrorguard / Abyssal as they just superior version of Fel Imp + Observer (Terroguard) / Fel Imp + Observer + Voidlord (Abyssal)

 

Just base off what I seen and record those two seems to be the choices. I have not done any math to see which combo wins out

[Nytemare 2]

Chaos Bolt Damage Test @ 100 with Human/Dwarf/ Worgen race

 

Human w/ The Human Spirit (100 Versatlity scales with level) = 2.87 Vers (2.87% Damage increase)

 

1 20478

2 20479

3 20479

4 20478

5 20479

6 20479

 

Avg = 20478.67

 

Dwarf W/ Might of the Moutain (2% Bonus Crit Damage) + Versatlity (2.10%) 

 

1 20726

2 20726

3 20726

4 20726

5 20726

6 20726

 

Ave = 20726

 

Worgen W/ Viciousness (1% Crit chance) + Versatlity (2.10%)

 

1 20481

2 20482

3 20481

4 20481

5 20481

6 20481

 

Avg = 20481.17

 

All done on a Skull Training Dummy either in SW or Darn. No Talents, No Dark Intent or any other buffs.

 

So it seems with the new Human passive they pretty close to Worgen passive for CB damage, ave only yield 3 dps difference between Human and Worgen; however, it seem Dwarf new passive makes them do on avg 247-248 damage more than Human and 244-245 damage more then Worgen

 

So base off this information Dwarf is the better  Ally PvE race for Destro Locks as you do more damage with CB than other two races

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nytemare

[Zagam 1,982]

 

Chaos Bolt Damage Test @ 100 with Human/Dwarf/ Worgen race

 

Human w/ The Human Spirit (100 Versatlity scales with level) = 2.87 Vers (2.87% Damage increase)

 

1 20478

2 20479

3 20479

4 20478

5 20479

6 20479

 

Avg = 20478.67

 

Dwarf W/ Might of the Moutain (2% Bonus Crit Damage) + Versatlity (2.10%) 

 

1 20726

2 20726

3 20726

4 20726

5 20726

6 20726

 

Ave = 20726

 

Worgen W/ Viciousness (1% Crit chance) + Versatlity (2.10%)

 

1 20481

2 20482

3 20481

4 20481

5 20481

6 20481

 

Avg = 20481.17

 

All done on a Skull Training Dummy either in SW or Darn. No Talents, No Dark Intent or any other buffs.

 

So it seems with the new Human passive they pretty close to Worgen passive for CB damage, ave only yield 3 dps difference between Human and Worgen; however, it seem Dwarf new passive makes them do on avg 247-248 damage more than Human and 244-245 damage more then Worgen

 

So base off this information Dwarf is the better  Ally PvE race for Destro Locks as you do more damage with CB than other two races

 

You literally got 0 variance with 6 Chaos Bolts on each test?  I've never seen a situation or log where the same ability hit for the exact same damage, separated by a single point.

 

Also, you tested Chaos Bolt only and didn't factor in the rest.  Dwarf's racial bonus wouldn't affect an Incinerate, Immolate, or Conflagrate if it didn't crit.  With the Worgen's racial being an RNG factor of an additional percentage of crit, you can't just scale it based on Chaos Bolt and say "xyz wins."  You have to incorporate all of the factors of DPS.  When it comes down to it, the difference will be VERY small.

[Astynax 24]

You literally got 0 variance with 6 Chaos Bolts on each test?  I've never seen a situation or log where the same ability hit for the exact same damage, separated by a single point.

 

Also, you tested Chaos Bolt only and didn't factor in the rest.  Dwarf's racial bonus wouldn't affect an Incinerate, Immolate, or Conflagrate if it didn't crit.  With the Worgen's racial being an RNG factor of an additional percentage of crit, you can't just scale it based on Chaos Bolt and say "xyz wins."  You have to incorporate all of the factors of DPS.  When it comes down to it, the difference will be VERY small.

Also, to throw it in there, because reasons, (and again before I get a comment about it, you're right, it will not make a ****lick of difference in basically any circumstance) the human passive will apply better to high haste builds for Aff and Demo, where the worgen's passive is not as strong, and the dwarf's passive will be downplayed due to low crit builds, and int no longer granting crit.-[unless I misread the beta notes on this one?]

[Liquidsteel 279]

Going with Charred Remains and GoSac like 80% of your damage comes from Chaos Bolt or something stupid (can't remember the exact percentages, but it's ridiculous).

 

So in this instance Dwarf will likely be the clear winner as Chaos Bolt always crits.

 

As usual, I base this on 0 maths.

[Zagam 1,982]

haha, 0 maths.  I think GoSac + Charred Remains won't be a viable build for Mythic - too much turreting.  Surely with how dumbed down DPS will be, the mechanics will be moderately more difficult.  If the Dwarf is 2% crit damage and Worgen is 1% crit, theoretically, Worgen = 1/2 of Dwarf.  Since Versatility is a flat rating, it'll be worth more early than it will later, if I understand how it works correctly.  Usually if a racial or something gives a flat rating increase, it becomes less and less valuable as the expansion and gear grows.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah but doesn't 2% crit damage on the character sheet translate to 4% at the end result? Akin to how the 3% from burning primal actually provides 6% overall.

 

And I guess we'll see how things turn out. Blizzard still have a metric fuck ton of work to do (and not only on Warlocks) to get us in shape for WoD, I'm reserving judgement on talent choices for the most part. I think on any heavy movement fight you won't even want to play Destruction regardless.

 

I also feel like GoSac and Charred Remains will scale extremely well once we obtain a bunch of Mastery heavy gear.

[Soulzar 42]

 

I also feel like GoSac and Charred Remains will scale extremely well once we obtain a bunch of Mastery heavy gear.

 

Yeah, the 70%-80% total dmg from one ability is beyond dumb.  We may as well start saccing our Succubus and spamming Shadowbolt.    Its going to be mastery mastery mastery... since all the ember generation we used to get from haste/crit is just handed out Oprah style with CR.  Good thing our stat attunement is Crit....lol

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, the 70%-80% total dmg from one ability is beyond dumb.  

Cataclysm Arcane Mage says, "hello!"

[Nytemare 2]

I can do test with Immolate, Incin, Conflag. I limited to CB and did six of each figure that would give a good idea. I can always redo the Dwarf one, it was strangle that all six did the same damage while both worgen and human each didn't all do the same. 

 

if those other attacks don't crit then yeah maybe human / worgen wins out when you factor everything else. I am a human currently on live. Goal was just test out human redone Human spirit, Dwarf new Passive, and compare it kinda to Worgen right now.

 

I did this test as it seemed Dwarf were going to be the best ally lock race, and like you said in another thread BE for horde.  Also only did it with CB as even now in live most our damage come from that nuke, so it felt right to test around what our biggest damage/dps spell is.

 

Human @ 100 gives .77 Versatlity, it says it scales with level, but I don't think it give anymore then that until we can get pass lv 100. So if you removed all Versatlity but what human give, all your attacks do .77% more then none human lv 100 without Versatlity.

 

Still early, but I think human will keep tied with Worgen pretty much, and the Dwarf will be the stronger race for locks.

[Liquidsteel 279]

No offence but these tests are pointless unless all you're doing is comparing damage between spells.

Destro simcraft is up for download. Just change the race each time and you can see how they compare.

[Nytemare 2]

No offence but these tests are pointless unless all you're doing is comparing damage between spells.

Destro simcraft is up for download. Just change the race each time and you can see how they compare.

 

Idea was to test the spell damage damage with the human new human spirit, and the Dwarf new Might of the mountain to see which race gave a bigger CB and by how much. 

 

Where is the simcraft at? not the current 548-8 that I already have download. Is there a special beta version that has this data?

Edited September 12, 2014 by Nytemare

[Liquidsteel 279]

I saw you posted on MMO-C but yeah, just download the one you found and edit the race names to what you want them to be.

[Emy 1]

Is there a place where all the Simcraft logs are shown in 1 picture? Like the ones that used to be posted on Elitist Jerks. I can't seem to find any...

 

[Edit] N/m, I was able to dig this up. It's kinda recent, I'm aware numbers will probably change for certain specs, just trying to find out where we are now in the DPS spectrum. 

 

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/raid-postpatch-9-2-14.html

Edited September 14, 2014 by Emy

[vaeevictiss 17]

It's not obligatory hate - this is his first expansion where he's dealing with masses of criers, whiners, bitchers, and complainers.  I get that he wants to give it back to the people making his life miserable, but he's got a job to do and that's to maintain the best line of communication with the community.  His responses show very little effort, to me at least.

 

I'm not forcing Kaz or Locky to change - I'm pretty flexible with all classes and can min/max anything.  Just haven't decided what to do yet.  As a raid leader, simple classes do well - it's why I've stayed Destruction on most fights whereas I'd love to be Demo or Affliction - they just require too much attention to do as well as Destruction.  I can't really be a melee, so it MIGHT be Spriest or Mage since we're missing both.  We'll see what kinda recruits we get before I make my decision.  Regardless, this is my last expansion of WoW with my current life plan.  Just gotta do something that makes it fun.

 

Ive been a hardcore warlock since vanilla, and ive pushed through all the good and bad changes since then and found ways to make them work and pull good numbers (it only got better when i found your stuff on Icy Veins lol). So ive never gotten to that point where i was like "OH SHIT THE CLASS IS FUCKED! BAIL OUT! BAIL OUT!" like so many people do...until this xpac. People called me crazy and said i was over reacting way too soon but i saw this coming. We were due for it. We've been kings for 10 years.

 

Thats when it all sank in...10 years...Jesus fucking christ ive been playing this for 10 years. Across all my toons i have nearly 1 entire year of /played...over 10 years. Ive wasted one tenth of the last 10 years of my life.

 

Im feeling like you Zag. I basically stopped playing WoW myself in the past couple months. Sure i get on every now and then to check stuff, but i no longer raid. I got frustrated when my guild couldnt get hard modes down. One of the only ones we got was immersius, and due to attendance we had to get pugs, therefore having to be fair on loot with a roll system. Every heroic immersius kill dropped a binding, and every one i lost the roll to a pug who we never raided with again. So the lack of progression and heroic gear going to pugs were two nails in the coffin.

 

Then i was on beta, having fun, the usual character wipe happened but they let us have a premade level 100. Then there was a small group of us, for whatever reason, got wiped again. Blizz would not restore, nor even let us have a new lvl 100 premade...pissed off, this became the 3rd nail in the coffin.

 

Due to my schedule, im forced to be a weekend raider. For 10 years ive had to deal with the fact that weekend guilds, just are nowhere near the caliber of weekday guilds. Obviously, this killed my weekends. I dont get home from work during the week until late. I have time to eat dinner, spend about an hour or two with my wife, go to bed, and do it all over. So, when the weekend rolled around it was nice, but we could really never do much because i always had to be home in time to raid at night. Not raiding for the past two months has been a breath of fresh air. I said to her the other day "holy shit, it feels like i have so much time". I look at the clock at night after having gotten something done and think "jesus, id still be sitting there raiding". 4th nail in the coffin.

 

These nerfs have obviously have been yet another nail in the coffin.

 

The last nail...I really wouldnt even call a nail. Its more of a realization of all previous nails. I have immersed myself deeply into not only the game, but the lore surrounding it. I ran around as the leveling warlock meleeing stuff because the sword i had looked cool lol....to exploring every nook and cranny of Azeroth and Draenor/Outlands and reading every single WoW book. Ive probably killed every last creature in the game...twice. Ive seen things in the game that can never be seen again. Ive made and lost good friends in the game. Ive been a GM in guilds and ive been just the lowly raider that wanted nothing to do with supervisory positions. Im no Zagam, but apparently my name got around because since BC i had people from other servers make toons on mine just to ask me for help with warlock stuff. 

 

But alas, with the coming of MoP. There was a change. I got impatient with people more often. I rage quit groups and raids, including my own guilds. I was in three guilds this xpac because i wasnt happy with any of them. Id yell at people for any mistake they made...and worse of all, my DPS dropped...and i could never get it where it was supposed to be. You'll find more than one post here asking for help. But in the end, it was all me. I just couldnt concentrate...because i honestly didnt care enough to. 

 

So, in closing of my long winded post, and the compiled "nails in the coffin"...I remember a conversation with a guildie the other day...

 

HIM: I saw you havnt been on much lately

ME: yea, just got fed up, maybe WoD will be better

HIM: yea i cant wait to play it and start raiding

 

then i just sat there for a minute...thinking about all this stuff i just wrote here, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Sure, we locks are masochists but i finally had that answer to the question i didnt even have to ask;

 

"WHY"?

 

Ive been much happier since i stopped playing. 10 years has been long enough to see a lot and leave behind a legacy in a game that created a pop culture of its own. I know one thing for sure. I will give WoD a chance...but if it isnt the most out fucking standing thing ive ever played...im done. These nerfs absolutely sealed my fate, as i have no desire to play any other class as a main.

 

If this is also your last Zagam, I have to at least extend a deep thanks for everything you have done for this community...so Thank You.

 

 

 

This shadowbolt nerf reminds me of the great corruption nerf of the pre TBC patch.

 

Ahh hell, that was a buff! That shit scaled infinitely! for about a week at least.

Edited September 14, 2014 by vaeevictiss

[Zagam 1,982]

My biggest contribution was building the community.  I'm far from the best and far from the smartest on these forums, but I'll take the credit for bringing everyone together and keeping the community a great place. 

 

I, too, have a backup plan of going casual if my schedule gets heavy, but I don't know if I could ever play in a casual setting.  For now, full steam ahead into WoD.

 

BTW, you can find some great weekend groups.  As this game ages, so does its players.  There are lots of groups who have different schedules.  While they may be harder to find, if you want, persistence will surely pay off.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Similar(ish) situation here.

 

Three months ago I was expecting to still be playing full on hardcore in WoD (actually stepping up to 5 days a week, no less), however in the past month I managed to find a career which I'll be starting in 8 days, and just this week signed a lease on my own apartment which I'll moving into next weekend.

 

Highly doubt (in fact I'm certain) that I'll likely only be raiding 2-3 days a week despite my guild's plans to do 5 for initial progress. They're an understanding bunch so I'll likely keep my raid spot, but I'm unsure how it will pan out. If I'm missing raids I'll fall behind in both gear and experience. I only play this game to raid, and only if it's at a high level, so I can see myself 'burning out' if I'm unable to properly experience the game.

[Lockybalboa 618]

This is likely my last xpack also, I have about a year of school left then it's real job time and such. Depending on the real job I might keep raiding a little, some mid level progression stuff. But I've also been looking at the Navy and if I go that way then I know for sure this is my last xpack. 

 

*IF* I try to carve out time for some pro faced gaming it will be for Heroes of the Storm. I might get a weekend team for that going. But I feel that is just a pipe dream to keep my soul from dying.