wow Memes and Funny Community Reactions to New Sylvanas Cutscene

[Starym 3,800]

 

Another big story cutscene, another strong reaction from the WoW community, as Youtube may have removed the dislike button, but the more vocal parts of the playerbase are letting their opinions be known and, luckily for us, in creative ways. In case you missed it, you can find the Shattered Legacies cinematic itself here.

Let's start with Baine finally moving off his butt in Oribos and adding to the conversation:

> Sits in Oribos for 2 years > "Maybe she shouldn't" > Refuses to elaborate further > Best character of the expansion - flyingepeto ... He spent all that time in Oribos thinking of that one line - dkumar6

The next one isn't quite a commentary on the story itself (although it could be interpreted as such), but it was pretty damn funny so it deserves to be included:

And then there's... this, which I won't spoil:

And finally we have a the capstone in the "amazing writing" category, which will live on with Bolvar's "let's bring the one thing the Jailer needs to his house":

I'll also be taking a look at the overall community reactions from comments, threads etc., but as I want to go through it in a more balanced way and show the whole spectrum of reactions (since I feel my personal negative take on the story is clouding my selection of some of the opinions), it'll take a while longer.

[Starym 3,800]

To clarify on that last part, I've been collecting community reactions (the usual quotes etc.) and noticed it was so overwhelmingly negative and thought it's probably due to my own opinion being VERY negative, so decided to pair it down to just the funny stuff for now and try to find some of the more balanced and positive quotes as well.

[Devylknyght 83]

If you want a semi-positive reaction here is mine that I put up on bellular's video comments section because he was looking for input from Sylvanas Loyalists. Not really funny or memed though:

As a Sylvanas Loyalist, this does kind of suck, BUT I don't think that Red-eye Sylvanas is gone or even ALL bad. I think that she was just incomplete and all tactical and ruthless with no compassion or mercy. That does NOT mean she did things without reason or justification. We can dig up all of the old arguments if you want, but while her motivations may have been crass and misguided, she was NEVER evil and taking joy in inflicting pain. 

Blue eye Sylvanas would not have done most of the things red eye Sylvanas did, but perhaps Azeroth would have fallen to the Legion, or the Horde would have been wiped out if Red Eye Sylvanas wasn't there. Do I regret following Red Eye Sylvanas at all? Not for a second. Do I want to see how she addresses her former incomplete self, her accusers, and me (the loyalists) now that she is presumably whole again? Yep, and I think how that plays out will decide for me how I feel about the story as a whole going back to the beginning.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Devylknyght
typo

[Swarf 110]

33 minutes ago, Starym said:

To clarify on that last part, I've been collecting community reactions (the usual quotes etc.) and noticed it was so overwhelmingly negative and thought it's probably due to my own opinion being VERY negative, so decided to pair it down to just the funny stuff for now and try to find some of the more balanced and positive quotes as well.

I admire your position but personally enjoy seeing some of the more negative community reactions, as I think they're entirely warranted. 

Never in WoW's history has the game's narrative evolved into such a mind numbingly awful dumpster fire.  An army of blessed story fixers armed with potions of curing and gnome treats could not eradicate Danuser's toxic poison from this game. 

[Grumar 188]

2 hours ago, Starym said:

To clarify on that last part, I've been collecting community reactions (the usual quotes etc.) and noticed it was so overwhelmingly negative and thought it's probably due to my own opinion being VERY negative, so decided to pair it down to just the funny stuff for now and try to find some of the more balanced and positive quotes as well.

No offense but this would be like NASA releasing an anazing new image of the earth, everyone saying how amazing it is but then saying "well actually I need to wait for some smooth brains to come along and say how the earth is flat before I can comment so I can present their side aswell"

Edited December 8, 2021 by Grumar

[Mishmish 65]

I hope you do find positive stuff cuzz well, its nice people wi have fun even if I'm not. I don't have good memes so instead I'll just say what ticks me off about this:

They're making her not responsible. Despite what Uther says, the fact full soul sylvanas would have acted differently means she was basically a different person, and can't really be held responsible for her actions. Kinda like vampires in Buffy if anyone's old enough to know it. 

 

Thats just not as interesting as when we believed its her own will. In wc3 and bfa, she seemed to be doing evil for a reason, but also because she just doesn't care about morality anymore. That was interesting, and made undeath much scarier - it was a force that could turn a noble ranger into a homicidical dictator. 

 

If its just a magic hocus pocus "arthas cuts you and you might turn into a psycopath", it feels flat, and tyrande, night elves and everyone else wronged by her dont have a good reason to want her head anymore. Obviously they still will cuxz they're pissed, but it doesn't carry weight. 

 

Its same as wc3 illidan vs legion illidan. It was more interesting when his extreme methods weren't always given a moral justification. 

[darkgreenwax 412]

died @ the deal with it glasses

[Starym 3,800]

2 hours ago, Grumar said:

No offense but this would be like NASA releasing an anazing new image of the earth, everyone saying how amazing it is but then saying "well actually I need to wait for some smooth brains to come along and say how the earth is flat before I can comment so I can present their side aswell"

You know, I thought so too, but there are actually plenty of people who enjoyed it. I cannot fathom why but I'll include their comments as well.

[Starym 3,800]

5 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

If you want a semi-positive reaction here is mine that I put up on bellular's video comments section because he was looking for input from Sylvanas Loyalists. Not really funny or memed though:

As a Sylvanas Loyalist, this does kind of suck, BUT I don't think that Red-eye Sylvanas is gone or even ALL bad. I think that she was just incomplete and all tactical and ruthless with no compassion or mercy. That does NOT mean she did things without reason or justification. We can dig up all of the old arguments if you want, but while her motivations may have been crass and misguided, she was NEVER evil and taking joy in inflicting pain. 

Blue eye Sylvanas would not have done most of the things red eye Sylvanas did, but perhaps Azeroth would have fallen to the Legion, or the Horde would have been wiped out if Red Eye Sylvanas wasn't there. Do I regret following Red Eye Sylvanas at all? Not for a second. Do I want to see how she addresses her former incomplete self, her accusers, and me (the loyalists) now that she is presumably whole again? Yep, and I think how that plays out will decide for me how I feel about the story as a whole going back to the beginning.

Doesn't this cinematic anger you the most though? Like regardless if you liked or disliked old Sylvanas, this literally puts a gun to her head, kills her AND says "it wasn't the real Sylvanas ever, you never really saw her, the one that we've interacted with this ENTIRE TIME is gone, now have this disney princess who feels bad instead". If they did that to a character I actually liked that'd be it for me (it's pretty bad even with my hatred for Sylvanas already).

[Starym 3,800]

4 hours ago, Swarf said:

I admire your position but personally enjoy seeing some of the more negative community reactions, as I think they're entirely warranted. 

Never in WoW's history has the game's narrative evolved into such a mind numbingly awful dumpster fire.  An army of blessed story fixers armed with potions of curing and gnome treats could not eradicate Danuser's toxic poison from this game. 

You know what the goddamn saddest part is? It wouldn't that THAT much to fix it all. Obviously it can't be done now, but if this exact same story with the exact same effort/content we had was done properly it would have been solid to good at the very least. It's just utter incompetence at this point. And I CAN see people reacting positively because there is an ok/interesting story behind the godawful execution, it's just that I and many others can't look past the way it's been told while those enjoying it can.

[Starym 3,800]

1 hour ago, Mishmish said:

I hope you do find positive stuff cuzz well, its nice people wi have fun even if I'm not. I don't have good memes so instead I'll just say what ticks me off about this:

They're making her not responsible. Despite what Uther says, the fact full soul sylvanas would have acted differently means she was basically a different person, and can't really be held responsible for her actions. Kinda like vampires in Buffy if anyone's old enough to know it. 

 

Thats just not as interesting as when we believed its her own will. In wc3 and bfa, she seemed to be doing evil for a reason, but also because she just doesn't care about morality anymore. That was interesting, and made undeath much scarier - it was a force that could turn a noble ranger into a homicidical dictator. 

 

If its just a magic hocus pocus "arthas cuts you and you might turn into a psycopath", it feels flat, and tyrande, night elves and everyone else wronged by her dont have a good reason to want her head anymore. Obviously they still will cuxz they're pissed, but it doesn't carry weight. 

 

Its same as wc3 illidan vs legion illidan. It was more interesting when his extreme methods weren't always given a moral justification. 

Couldn't agree more with what you said. My personal main issue (and there are plenty more) is the fact that they've basically said we've never met real Sylvanas. Literally every single moment after her death a short while into WC3 was this half-souled forced evil thing. And now that her other part is back the Sylvanas we've been interacting with and learning about is just gone, her sins with her, no punishment, no repercussions, just good Sylvanas will feel bad about it even though she shouldn't cos she didn't do anything. LITERALLY the entire fault for everything she's ever done is Arthas/the Jailer's. Everything else they throw in there for the willing fans about how she can't forgive herself is nonsense.

[Swarf 110]

3 minutes ago, Starym said:

My personal main issue (and there are plenty more) is the fact that they've basically said we've never met real Sylvanas. Literally every single moment after her death a short while into WC3 was this half-souled forced evil thing. And now that her other part is back the Sylvanas we've been interacting with and learning about is just gone, her sins with her, no punishment, no repercussions, just good Sylvanas will feel bad about it even though she shouldn't cos she didn't do anything. LITERALLY the entire fault for everything she's ever done is Arthas/the Jailer's. Everything else they throw in there for the willing fans about how she can't forgive herself is nonsense.

Oh my Yogg it's a beautiful thing when people get it.

It's so frickin' nauseating what they've done.  They willfully and deliberately inject the player with as much angst and tension as they possibly can orchestrate, making any halfway normal minded person long to see Sylbarfas held accountable... and then they essentially just leave this toxic vibe to fester in the player with no real absolution, because they take the villain of all villains, slap some blue eyes in her head, and finger paint some silly redemption arc to drastically reduce or outright remove her accountability . 

Her actions, all of them, have been continuously put forth as being the deeds of someone very intelligent and clear minded who has known exactly what they're doing every step of the way, and who has willfully chosen for herself each and every action she has taken... But now we're force fed this hot garbage.

In my mind I hear Danuser essentially saying 'hey yo chill, forget everything you ever knew 'cause it's matrix time.  Everything is just ol' baldy jailer's fault dawg 'cause he's a meanie head rite.  yall stop hate'n on mah girl Sylvie 'cause she was just trippin'.  Her drink was super spiked yo.  But she aight now.'

Be still my churning f'n stomach.

[Tenshinamy 10]

Hm well i am one of the rare ones who likes how everything comes out i guess.
I hated! Sylvanas like...always. As soon as it was about her, i got mad and was like "yeah nice, what crime will there be now again...."

They show now that it wasn't her and i can see that when i look at the Ranger General she ones was. Punishment you say. Then look in the eyes of her blue eyed self and see how she is suffering after this part of her soul got back and found out what Sylvanas did all the way until now. This IS punishment in my eyes.

She should not wake up because the Jailer thought it would destroy her to see, what she has done. So if she wasn't as strong, or maybe if Uther wouldn't have takled to her past self, she might not wake and would be like sleeping forever. All in one i guess the Jailer was sure she would not wake, so wasn't a high risk for him, why killing her then.

I am still not sure about the responible part. That is the only thing i am wondering about too. I guess she should pay a price for what she caused, even if it was the controlled Sylvanas all along. It does not need to be death tho

Just my two cents, please don't eat me 

[Starym 3,800]

2 hours ago, Tenshinamy said:

Hm well i am one of the rare ones who likes how everything comes out i guess.
I hated! Sylvanas like...always. As soon as it was about her, i got mad and was like "yeah nice, what crime will there be now again...."

They show now that it wasn't her and i can see that when i look at the Ranger General she ones was. Punishment you say. Then look in the eyes of her blue eyed self and see how she is suffering after this part of her soul got back and found out what Sylvanas did all the way until now. This IS punishment in my eyes.

She should not wake up because the Jailer thought it would destroy her to see, what she has done. So if she wasn't as strong, or maybe if Uther wouldn't have takled to her past self, she might not wake and would be like sleeping forever. All in one i guess the Jailer was sure she would not wake, so wasn't a high risk for him, why killing her then.

I am still not sure about the responible part. That is the only thing i am wondering about too. I guess she should pay a price for what she caused, even if it was the controlled Sylvanas all along. It does not need to be death tho

Just my two cents, please don't eat me 

Wasn't a high risk? She was literally the only being capable of messing his plan up. He literally did the idiot villain cliche generic "I'll just put the heroes in this room and assume they died" Austin powers nonsense. Not killing Jaina Thrall etc is one thing (although also idiotic) and could be explained away, but Sylvanas? No. It's plain moronic writing and nothing more, because actually setting things up so they make sense AND get you where you want to go story-wise is actually mildly hard and takes work.

In terms of liking the story that's a good thing, I mean you're definitely having a better time than those of us that are upset 😄 I tried to give SL a chance many times, but the writing team is just too basic for me (but don't get me wrong, so is 90% of the movie/tv show/game writing in general as well). You should never have to apologize for liking something, but honestly it's great that you can share your opinions without being defensive and knowing it's probably an unpopular opinion around here, so thank you for that! We can disagree np!

[Goldman 1]

If you think about it, they actually listened when ppl said "we dont want a redemption arc for sylvanas". It is a lot easier after all to just retcon her soul in one cutscene, rather than writing a whole arc of character development

[Devylknyght 83]

6 hours ago, Starym said:

Doesn't this cinematic anger you the most though? Like regardless if you liked or disliked old Sylvanas, this literally puts a gun to her head, kills her AND says "it wasn't the real Sylvanas ever, you never really saw her, the one that we've interacted with this ENTIRE TIME is gone, now have this disney princess who feels bad instead". If they did that to a character I actually liked that'd be it for me (it's pretty bad even with my hatred for Sylvanas already).

No, at least not yet. I don't think it confirms any of what you just said yet. I don't think red eye sylvanas is completely gone or wasn't at least part of the "real" Sylvanas. It looks like it might be leaning that way so yeah that would suck. But I think there is still a chance for her to keep some of her edge and not be full disney princess mode. Need to see a bit more of what happens before I make final judgement. See what the novel has in it. But there is a strong likelihood it will be the last wow novel i buy.

[Starym 3,800]

1 hour ago, Devylknyght said:

No, at least not yet. I don't think it confirms any of what you just said yet. I don't think red eye sylvanas is completely gone or wasn't at least part of the "real" Sylvanas. It looks like it might be leaning that way so yeah that would suck. But I think there is still a chance for her to keep some of her edge and not be full disney princess mode. Need to see a bit more of what happens before I make final judgement. See what the novel has in it. But there is a strong likelihood it will be the last wow novel i buy.

Ah ok, I get what you mean. For me the mere implication of innocence/redemption because of "lack of some soul" is enough 😄, coupled with "now she's different cos soul". I can't see a way around the fact that she simply would not have done ANY of the things she has in the past 16 years of the game if she had that piece of her soul and that's GG for me.

[Leodagan 19]

I laughed so much with the Baine thing, didn't expect that ! 🤣

[Nightfyre 1]

Secret assassin!  We can still get her!  Maybe a sister,  jailers spy, Marvel's black widow Baine!

[Devylknyght 83]

6 hours ago, Starym said:

Ah ok, I get what you mean. For me the mere implication of innocence/redemption because of "lack of some soul" is enough 😄, coupled with "now she's different cos soul". I can't see a way around the fact that she simply would not have done ANY of the things she has in the past 16 years of the game if she had that piece of her soul and that's GG for me.

For me there is a very narrow path that they can land this story on. But it is there. For the Sylvanas haters out there like yourself, is there ANY possible resolution that you find acceptable that doesn't include her entire character being completely punished, humiliated, executed, and removed from the game entirely, never to return? I have been trying to think of a middle ground that we could both at least find acceptable, so I am interested in if your viewpoint has any give in it at all.

[Nym85 72]

4 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

For me there is a very narrow path that they can land this story on. But it is there. For the Sylvanas haters out there like yourself, is there ANY possible resolution that you find acceptable that doesn't include her entire character being completely punished, humiliated, executed, and removed from the game entirely, never to return? I have been trying to think of a middle ground that we could both at least find acceptable, so I am interested in if your viewpoint has any give in it at all.

Nope, not really. I don't even care about humiliated and executed even at this point, haven't since the start of SL. I'm just ok with her being removed from the story forward. Redeem her, give her a personal paradise with Nathanos, do whatever, just chuck her somewhere and let us go forward without her.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Nym85

[Calorat 78]

On 12/8/2021 at 12:24 PM, Devylknyght said:

If you want a semi-positive reaction here is mine that I put up on bellular's video comments section because he was looking for input from Sylvanas Loyalists. Not really funny or memed though:

As a Sylvanas Loyalist, this does kind of suck, BUT I don't think that Red-eye Sylvanas is gone or even ALL bad. I think that she was just incomplete and all tactical and ruthless with no compassion or mercy. That does NOT mean she did things without reason or justification. We can dig up all of the old arguments if you want, but while her motivations may have been crass and misguided, she was NEVER evil and taking joy in inflicting pain. 

Blue eye Sylvanas would not have done most of the things red eye Sylvanas did, but perhaps Azeroth would have fallen to the Legion, or the Horde would have been wiped out if Red Eye Sylvanas wasn't there. Do I regret following Red Eye Sylvanas at all? Not for a second. Do I want to see how she addresses her former incomplete self, her accusers, and me (the loyalists) now that she is presumably whole again? Yep, and I think how that plays out will decide for me how I feel about the story as a whole going back to the beginning.

Stories are coherent though, everything in the last few years (especially everything Sylvanas related) has just been a mess of random garbage ideas thrown at a wall. It's like they have a big wheel in the office with half the sections marked "she is good" and the other half marked "she is bad" and every morning they spin the wheel to decide on how to write her that day.   Imagine saying that with all those people let go from Blizz recently for misconduct that it wasn't their fault cause they were drunk or somehow not in control of their actions, that's the route Blizz is going with Sylvanas.  They spend years embracing her bad behavior, then try to cover it up by trying to make it all a misunderstanding and she really didn't do anything and wasn't responsible.  Just like how Blizz kept people in positions they should not have been in for years because they were "buddies" and well like by certain people so they justified their actions to keep them around, Blizz is keeping Sylvanas around because some vocal people like her, doing anything they can to justify her actions, no matter how much it angers and causes harm to the greater community cause she was part of the "old frat house Blizz" and they feel they need to protect her no matter what she has done.   Sure seems like some big correlations there.  Sylvanas is the emblem of everything thats been wrong with Blizz as a company and the best thing they could do is show her the door and not reward her.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Calorat
addition

[Starym 3,800]

5 hours ago, Devylknyght said:

For me there is a very narrow path that they can land this story on. But it is there. For the Sylvanas haters out there like yourself, is there ANY possible resolution that you find acceptable that doesn't include her entire character being completely punished, humiliated, executed, and removed from the game entirely, never to return? I have been trying to think of a middle ground that we could both at least find acceptable, so I am interested in if your viewpoint has any give in it at all.

I'm not a Sylvanas hater, I hate what they did to her character since BfA. And no, after the last 2 cinematics (Sanctum and this) there's is nothing they can do (including her death, I just don't care anymore, they ruined her). I was very positive and open minded about SL, even with the missteps and the BLATANT disregard for lore, I gave it a shot and was actually hyped. They managed to destroy all that. I'm not like angry in the way many others are in terms of Sylvanas, I'm just very depressed because I see the shitty writer syndrome rearing its ugly head here. It's people without the skills to pull storylines like this off doing it anyway. There were MANY ways to make this story work and make it amazing, it wasn't doomed from the start (even with the stupid decision to make the Jailer the fucking Wizard of Oz behind the curtain of EVERYTHING Warcraft).

The only hope I have for WoW's storytelling is that they either replace the head writers or that the ones in charge realize they can't keep alienating a giant (majority?) part of the playerbase with their crappy fanfiction. And look, this isn't and never has been about "Sylvanas Stans" and "Sylvanas haters", it's about the writing. They opened a small door with the SL intro cinematic where some that HATED her story in BfA saw a road to redemption (of the story, not the character) and they now shut it down. Because simply, instead of working with the character they butchered and making something out of it (not necessarily death etc, but SOMETHING that is her), they just went the easy route, as most media writers do these days, and said MAGIC SOLUTION, IT WASN'T HER AT ALL ALL ALONG! HERE'S A NEW CHARACTER THAT SORT OF IS HER BUT ACTUALLY ISN'T IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!

Ok maybe I am angry 😄

As an example of what I mean, I HATED/hate Garroshes character as they ruined him as well back in the post-BC days (aka when they went full evil Disney villain and ignored that one questing zone storyline where he's actually honorable). BUT I thoroughly enjoyed his end in Shadowlands, since he was true to his character. Imagine if they pulled some idiotic "oh nono, you see the Sha/Od Gods got to Garrosh back before he was Warchief and removed part of this soul, so literally his whole character and everything he's done since then doesn't matter/wasn't him".

[Devylknyght 83]

6 hours ago, Starym said:

I'm not a Sylvanas hater, I hate what they did to her character since BfA. And no, after the last 2 cinematics (Sanctum and this) there's is nothing they can do (including her death, I just don't care anymore, they ruined her). I was very positive and open minded about SL, even with the missteps and the BLATANT disregard for lore, I gave it a shot and was actually hyped. They managed to destroy all that. I'm not like angry in the way many others are in terms of Sylvanas, I'm just very depressed because I see the shitty writer syndrome rearing its ugly head here. It's people without the skills to pull storylines like this off doing it anyway. There were MANY ways to make this story work and make it amazing, it wasn't doomed from the start (even with the stupid decision to make the Jailer the *filtered* Wizard of Oz behind the curtain of EVERYTHING Warcraft).

The only hope I have for WoW's storytelling is that they either replace the head writers or that the ones in charge realize they can't keep alienating a giant (majority?) part of the playerbase with their crappy fanfiction. And look, this isn't and never has been about "Sylvanas Stans" and "Sylvanas haters", it's about the writing. They opened a small door with the SL intro cinematic where some that HATED her story in BfA saw a road to redemption (of the story, not the character) and they now shut it down. Because simply, instead of working with the character they butchered and making something out of it (not necessarily death etc, but SOMETHING that is her), they just went the easy route, as most media writers do these days, and said MAGIC SOLUTION, IT WASN'T HER AT ALL ALL ALONG! HERE'S A NEW CHARACTER THAT SORT OF IS HER BUT ACTUALLY ISN'T IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!

Ok maybe I am angry 😄

As an example of what I mean, I HATED/hate Garroshes character as they ruined him as well back in the post-BC days (aka when they went full evil Disney villain and ignored that one questing zone storyline where he's actually honorable). BUT I thoroughly enjoyed his end in Shadowlands, since he was true to his character. Imagine if they pulled some idiotic "oh nono, you see the Sha/Od Gods got to Garrosh back before he was Warchief and removed part of this soul, so literally his whole character and everything he's done since then doesn't matter/wasn't him".

Well I definitely agree and share your frustration with the writing. I spent over a decade being a hardcore Fosaken, Sylvanas, and Horde member/fan whatever. BFA literally put me at odds with myself and forced me to choose. Now the Horde is just a joke. And no idea how to feel about the Forsaken and Sylvanas. Basically just destroyed my entire emotional investment in the game.

[Helvorn 57]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:43 PM, Starym said:

There were MANY ways to make this story work and make it amazing, it wasn't doomed from the start (even with the stupid decision to make the Jailer the *filtered* Wizard of Oz behind the curtain of EVERYTHING Warcraft).

I am with you concerning the anger, well no, for me it already turned into bland frustration and annoyance. I played some BfA and SL but after some weeks, it was just enough.

For me, when she burned Teldrassil, I knew this would went bollocks. Because, if she was mentally responsible for that, there would be no turning back for this. She had to be destroyed. Or, if she was "under some influence", we will go full-Garrosh AGAIN. With another Disney storyline of MAGIC. Obviously they´ve chosen the latter.

It wouldnt be that bad, because stories of repentance/atonement is bread and butter in fantasy world. But NOT if there is some "evil spirit" doing mind control. Then, its just nonsense.

Just let her mentally go berserk after her main target for revenge was gone. Without Arthas, without her target, everything became the target. Because she was left in a world. aimlessly without clear purpose. So *filtered* hit the fan. Let her go wild, then let the Alliance/Horde, her sisters, beat some reason into her mind.

That there is some purpose, the Forsaken. Her "new" people. She couldnt protect her people back then, but she has new people she has to lead and to protect from the myriads of threats for them. Reluctantly, but slowly she understands and accepts her role in the world.

For example, any Orcs of the old times will very much understand what it takes to adapt to a new life, to find some purpose, after your anger and rage is gone.

No mind-control mumbo jumbo, just a result of actions in WotLK, that would have consequences some years later. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Helvorn