Heroic Progression - Please Evaluate My Dps

[Lockybalboa 618]

Any other recommendations to balance out our current comp?

 

 

DK go hunter, Enh go Ele, Arc learn frost for mines. 

[Cardio33 3]

Get rid of the DKs. 

 

If they are going to melee, Rogue or Warrior.  Hard to gear up someone, so swapping isn't really an option.  In 10 man, it is absolutely bring the class, not the player until you get certain levels of gear.  Certain classes remove complexity from fights with properly utilized toolkits.  DKs bring nothing.  I don't even think their AoE grip is useful outside of Sha of Pride's Reflection adds.  Rogues bring Smokebomb and Warriors bring Vig, banners, and Rallying Cry.  AMZ isn't even noteworthy.   

 

If you can, swap both to ranged.  We run 2 melee, but we hardly ever use them on the same fight since we have a deeper roster.  I have a 15 man roster with 2 melee and you have 3 in a 10.

I definitly feel like lack of a warrior kills my opener as destro, I have yet to see a 3 mil CB outside of goofy mechanics.

Just curious, since several of us have decent alts, how far would you be willing to dip in item level for an ideal comp? Would you swap a 580 DK for a 550 hunter? Or a 580 DK for a 540 warrior?

[Lockybalboa 618]

Cutting edge progression on Blackfuse was done around 550-555, so in theory it's totally doable with one or two persons at that ilvl - but it won't be easy. 

 

No cloak = no way I would take them.

 

560 is about as low as I would go personally, maybe a bit lower if they had some really good items like a H or HWF weapon/trinkets.

 

You also need to look at the class though, a hunter with 4pc, weapon, and AoC is very powerful even at low-mid ilvl. On the other hand a 540 warrior even with two okay weapons and a Tail Tip or Evil Eye is going to be fairly weak because they need SO much gear to meet their requirements. 35% crit, two good weapons, both of the RIGHT trinkets, 2pc - but not 4pc, and then they are about on par with the hunter that only needs 4pc, weapon, and 1 AoC.

 

Additionally player skill and versatility is key, the ability to change mains for a fight or for a raid isn't something that everyone has. I'm the kind of player that with an okay ilvl, an IV guide, two hours on a target dummy, and another hour for weakauras can play any DPS to 95%+. Takes me a little longer for healers and a lot less for tanks. 

 

If you or your raiders are able to switch classes like that, than that is amazing and likely will help your comp a lot. But if they can't then it would be far worse then having a sub-optimal comp.

 

I'm semi main swapping till WoD, warlock to shaman, so I'm kind of going through this processes right now - but it's a lot easier for me because the raid group is all 585, so the 560 shaman that is there as a buff slut isn't felt as much of a loss Vs. if we were doing progression still.

[Cardio33 3]

Additionally player skill and versatility is key, the ability to change mains for a fight or for a raid isn't something that everyone has. I'm the kind of player that with an okay ilvl, an IV guide, two hours on a target dummy, and another hour for weakauras can play any DPS to 95%+. Takes me a little longer for healers and a lot less for tanks. 

I'm definitly not this way and always feel I need to

Level a class from the ground up to learn all of the abilities pre IV guide walk throughs. I think it's even more important for high utility classes like hunter. People look at damage rotation guides only and miss a lot of key utilities that are introduced slowly while leveling. I can't tell you how many times we had picked up a PUG hunter +580 ilevel that do fine damge but don't know they have an MS effect or dispell.

Also, shameless warlock plug here, we play one of the more complex and deep dps classes from my experience. This makes it a lot easier to swap to simpler classes. Granted destro is simple and easy but afflic and demon can be tricky.

Disclaimer, only other classes I have raided on during MOP are frost Mage, boomer, hunter, and assassin rogue. Definitely found those classes/specs painfully easy and boring.

[Cardio33 3]

Greetings again fellow locks,

 

 

Quick question for everyone, I was lucky enough to coin a heroic KTT last night and debating what to use.  I also have a 4/4 upgraded reg BBOY.  For destro it's a no brainer.

 

 

For afflic, reg BBOY or heroic KTT?

 

I'm sitting at 576 ilevel and have no issues hitting 13737 haste soft cap.

[Liquidsteel 279]

Bboy for sure. No brainer.

Also the difference between 13736 and 13737 haste is nothing tbh. Don't get hung up on breakpoints unless the DoTs aren't permanent like shadowflame, or you want to hit an Agony or Doom breakpoint with full haste procs up on the pull.

Outside of those situations breakpoints are mostly irrelevant.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Liquidsteel

[Cardio33 3]

God damn mr.robot and simcraft are frustrating.  Dunno why the simulations seem wayy off.  I equiped 2-3 solid upgrades from reg to heroic and only seemed to gain 3-4k dps.

 

So I've heard from several guys to not put much value into Simcraft but do you guys use is for anything?

[Liquidsteel 279]

Simcraft is a single target simulation by default. As such it favours haste for both Affliction and Demonology, when real encounters in SoO lean towards mastery.

If you gained mastery but lost haste, this could be a reason. Similarly it overvalues the 4pc so breaking that does funny things.

Overall though don't bother with simc for Affliction. Just go mastery > haste and be happy.

[Cardio33 3]

Got it thanks for the advice.

I'm def goin mastery> haste for both afflic and destroy but what I'm struggling with is mastery vs int. That's what I'm trying to use sim craft for, the stat weights.

As a JC, all simulations tell me to go mastery gems but I see pros like Zagam still doin int.

My armory

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/Medschool/advanced

I've improved12 I level since starting this thread.

[Liquidsteel 279]

2 Mastery > 1 Int, but it's close.

 

I'm pretty sure the JC gems don't give double the amount of secondaries as they do primaries, so that why people still use Int gems.

[Zagam 1,982]

JC Int gems give 320, or 2x the 160 amount.  JC Secondary gems give 480, only 1.5x the amount.  Armory my Warlock - 2 320 Int gems.  I think people who greatly devalue their primary like Paladins, Warriors, and DKs take the 480 of a secondary.

[Cardio33 3]

Agreed I'm in the int gems camp but for some reason mr.robot spits out mastery gems when I put in simcraft stat weights.

 

 

 

Direct comparison of the two options (assuming red and yellow gem slots obv)

 

 

Option 1:  320 int

Reds: 320 int x2

Yellow: 320 mastery x2

 

Total: 640 int & 640 mastery

 

Option 2:  480 mastery

Reds:  160 exp/mastery x2

Yellow:  480 mastery x2

 

Total:  1,280 mastery & 320 exp

 

Basically looking at 640 int vs 640 mastery + 320 exp.  Doesn't seem to make the slightest bit of difference if you line it up that way.  I can see why option 2 wins on mr.robot b/c over-valued numbers for hit.

[Zagam 1,982]

At some point, expertise and hit devalue - when you cap.  If you use normal exp/mastery gems, you won't have a hit problem as you come near BiS gear.  Also, 640 Int >> 640 Mastery.  The only time secondaries beat primaries is when the secondary has at least half the value of primary.  The weight at BiS is somewhere between 0.65 and 0.75 - not even close to a 1:1 ratio.  It's relatively minor in the end, but the JC Int gems win out.