Heroic Progression - Please Evaluate My Dps

[Recklessfear 33]

 

 

Does Doomguard benefit from mastery?  Other than trinket procs is it worth it to time it during any phase?  Also why wouldn't you wait for DS to pop wrathstorm so pet benefits from the mastery?

 

No, you're using the felstorm for fury gen.

 

Also GoServ will assist in fury gen 

[Zagam 1,982]

Yeah, I need to modify the opener to get rid of the mindset of modifying rotation for Imp Swarm snapshotting.  Derp on my part - apologies.

 

Doomguard benefits from everything like all your pets.  Service is used for DF generation, but I've found it to be a non-contributor if you properly manage your DF from that point on.  It costs you one Soul Fire or a ToC in your opener which you can more than make up for later.  Wrathguard brings the advantage of never not having enough energy to use Wrathstorm unlike his inferior brethren.  He also looks way sexier.

[Zagam 1,982]

Opener fixed.  Sorry for confusion/lazy updating.

[Cardio33 3]

Opener fixed.  Sorry for confusion/lazy updating.

 

I did not mean to critique at all!  Thank you for the update.

 

Posting here not to make your eyes bleed (due to my poor play) but to celebrate that Demonology on Thok progression helped us get him down last night (and I was rewarded with helm tier piece).

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10

 

Playing the spec like complete trash at the moment but I'll get there.  My first time raiding the spec since TBC was last night, on heroic Thok lol, not exactly the easiest fight to get your rotation rolling.

 

I haven't downloaded any weak auras yet, never felt I needed to for destruction (easy mode) but probably should have a few weeks ago for afflic.  Demonology I can no longer get by without it, too much stuff to watch for.

 

 

I'm currently working on finding the optimal secondary stat set-up to allow me to swap between all 3 specs.  Maxing mastery then looking at a good haste breakpoint, probably will go for the destruction hard cap ~14k ish.

[Zagam 1,982]

You have a lot to work on with Demonology.  Are you asking for a critique?  Also, you shouldn't just roll into a heroic progression raid and use it to learn your rotation.  You should be hitting dummies, queueing for LFR, and doing other stuff to get into the swing of it.  There's no reason you should be doing sub 200k DPS on a Heroic fight.  Looks like your entire group's DPS needs a bit of work, but it was good enough for Thok.  Going to notice a substantial increase in fight difficulty on Siegecrafter if some DPS issues with your entire group aren't resolved.

[Cardio33 3]

Zagam,

 

I'm not ready for a critque :D

 

I was just giving you an update on my progress and let you know I took your advice and I'm improving.  Hopefully in a few weeks I will be ready for a deep dive :D

[Liquidsteel 279]

Why waste time when you can start improving now? What will a few more weeks of poor performances net you that couldn't be gained by finding and eliminating mistakes right now?

[Cardio33 3]

Why waste time when you can start improving now? What will a few more weeks of poor performances net you that couldn't be gained by finding and eliminating mistakes right now?

Actually heading out of town for 2 weeks then moving so most likely won't be able to play for ~3 weeks.

 

I just wanted to let everyone know that their effort analyzing my logs and giving me advice wasn't wasted.  I'll implement these changes and update this thread with my progress in a few weeks when I return :D

[Cardio33 3]

So I'm hanging out on vacation killing sometime looking through old logs.  I feel I can self analyze destruction and affliction pretty well at this point but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for with demonology yet.  Log below:

 

Heroic Thok

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10

 

I died during the encounter but if you crop for the time I was alive, I was doing about 250k dps which at 570 ilevel feels really low for this fight.  I looked at Zagam's dps faq and I see some of the basics in terms of demonology:

 

1. Doom uptime, 95%

2. Corruption uptime, 97%

3. Shadowflame uptime 31% and I shift into meta for stronger dot.

 

Mistakes:

1.  missed a few trinket procs by not swapping into meta

2.  too many soul fires in human form, did this mainly due to fight mechanic for quicker casts on interrupt.

3.  for some reason terroguard only had 4 casts and I'm pretty sure I used it on the opener.

 

 

Basically I felt like I played better than 250k dps but can't find much more to change than shifting more soul fires to meta and timing trinkets better.

[Zagam 1,982]

While Doom uptime is important, the POWER of which Doom is ticking at is VERY important, MUCH more important than just having Doom applied.  Snapshotting is paramount to playing a Warlock well, and Demonology is a great example of this.  Trinket timing and doing Meta Soul Fires with procs will be the difference in your DPS.

[Cardio33 3]

What do you think is a reasonable gain to my dps?  Is 300k doable in my current gear?  I guess I'll have to play well to find out but I just can't see how I can add 50k dps just by snapshotting doom better and rolling out some soulfires.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10&type=casts&start=5256501&end=5640243&source=9&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24103958%5E0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24146184%5E0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24146046%5E0%24Separate%24%23DF5353%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24113861%5E0%24Separate%24rgb(78%25,+61%25,+43%25)%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24137590&ability=603

 

 

Lined up my first doom with the world (all trinkets, DS, etc) should have double casted it to extend. 

 

Second doom was with TR buff, I missed expanded mind which procced right after.

 

Final few dooms had BBOY buff and expanded mind.

[Cardio33 3]

Another thing I'm struggling with is setting reasonable goals.  I look at top logs and I'm not even close:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/5#size=10&boss=1599

 

 

I don't know how much is poor play and how much is people +580 ilevel still running these zones and padding numbers.

[Zagam 1,982]

What do you think is a reasonable gain to my dps?  Is 300k doable in my current gear?  I guess I'll have to play well to find out but I just can't see how I can add 50k dps just by snapshotting doom better and rolling out some soulfires.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10&type=casts&start=5256501&end=5640243&source=9&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24103958%5E0%24Separate%24%23909049%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24146184%5E0%24Separate%24%23a04D8A%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24146046%5E0%24Separate%24%23DF5353%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24113861%5E0%24Separate%24rgb(78%25,+61%25,+43%25)%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24153939682.0.0.Warlock%24false%24137590&ability=603

 

 

Lined up my first doom with the world (all trinkets, DS, etc) should have double casted it to extend. 

 

Second doom was with TR buff, I missed expanded mind which procced right after.

 

Final few dooms had BBOY buff and expanded mind.

Double casting Doom is HUGE in opener.  With all buffs and TR up, your tick interval should be around 5 seconds.  By missing the double cast, you missed out on 6-7 mega ticks of Doom.  This could be 3M damage JUST FOR DOOM ALONE for one global.  You can see it by tracking the damage by Doom how significant the damage is, but you should also observe the time between ticks.  This is very meaningful in terms of damage, but you also have to remember that more Dooms = more Imps = more Demonic Fury = more damage.  Demo is a big piling on.  This is a big reason why most think the spec is bad - you literally have to nail it to perform well.  If you miss a Chaos Bolt, it's not a big deal - you can make up for it later.  If you mess up your Doom timing by even 0.5 seconds, it can cost you 50-100k DPS, easy. 

 

Another thing I'm struggling with is setting reasonable goals.  I look at top logs and I'm not even close:

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/5#size=10&boss=1599

 

 

I don't know how much is poor play and how much is people +580 ilevel still running these zones and padding numbers.

Reasonable goals = you contribute to the boss dying.  Period.  You aren't going to rank if you're not 585+.  We're not "padding" the instance - we're rerunning it because Blizzard gives us nothing else to do.  So all the mega awesome Warlocks who are bored of playing Destro or Affliction are dabbling in Demo.  Because they're already incredible players, they're coming out of the gates with great gear setting the Demo bar high.  Do the very best you can and ignore the outside noise of other parses.  Focus on improving every week, not getting a rank.  That's like a fat person trying to burn 50 lbs in 2 weeks.  He'll be far less successful than someone losing 5 lbs per week.

[Zagam 1,982]

Analyzing this log: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10&type=damage-done&start=5256501&end=5640243&source=9

 

Your top damage was your pet's melee?  This doesn't even register to me.

 

Your average Doom crit tick was below 500k - most are over 800k.  However, you only had 6 crit ticks out of a total of 40.  Welcome to RNG hell that I mentioned before.  Your first 6 casts had 0 crits.  This is pretty darn unlucky.  However, I notice that you didn't land a Doom tick until 19 seconds in - why are you waiting so long?  This leads me to my next point...

 

You need to work on your opener a bit.  You barely spiked over 500k, yet you hit over 750k at the 3:15 mark when the bats came down.  Most of that damage is Shadowflame, but the important part of Demo's DPS is the opener.  It's absolutely paramount that you nail your opener.  The DF generation is affected for over 60 seconds by how well you do your opener.

 

Both of the Warlocks in your group need some significant help regarding the bats.  70% of your damage came from Shadowflame and Essence of Yu'lon.  The confusing part is Void Ray coming in at 14%.  You're dumping your DF with Void Ray which is a CRITICAL mistake.  Void Ray is ass - debind it, remove it, get rid of it, forget it exists.  Your Immolation Aura was so weak on the bats that I don't even think it was worth moving over to them or using it.  Bluegum didn't even try to AoE them.  Watching a Mage beat a Demo and Destro lock on bats makes me cry on the inside.  Whoop his ass next week. 

[Cardio33 3]

Analyzing this log: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10&type=damage-done&start=5256501&end=5640243&source=9

 

Your top damage was your pet's melee?  This doesn't even register to me.

 

Your average Doom crit tick was below 500k - most are over 800k.  However, you only had 6 crit ticks out of a total of 40.  Welcome to RNG hell that I mentioned before.  Your first 6 casts had 0 crits.  This is pretty darn unlucky.  However, I notice that you didn't land a Doom tick until 19 seconds in - why are you waiting so long?  This leads me to my next point...

 

You need to work on your opener a bit.  You barely spiked over 500k, yet you hit over 750k at the 3:15 mark when the bats came down.  Most of that damage is Shadowflame, but the important part of Demo's DPS is the opener.  It's absolutely paramount that you nail your opener.  The DF generation is affected for over 60 seconds by how well you do your opener.

 

Both of the Warlocks in your group need some significant help regarding the bats.  70% of your damage came from Shadowflame and Essence of Yu'lon.  The confusing part is Void Ray coming in at 14%.  You're dumping your DF with Void Ray which is a CRITICAL mistake.  Void Ray is ass - debind it, remove it, get rid of it, forget it exists.  Your Immolation Aura was so weak on the bats that I don't even think it was worth moving over to them or using it.  Bluegum didn't even try to AoE them.  Watching a Mage beat a Demo and Destro lock on bats makes me cry on the inside.  Whoop his ass next week. 

Great points, double doom on the opener w/ lust + TR would really help build imps with some front end doom ticks.

 

It's really interesting taking a look at where my aoe damage is coming from,

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Fc7W1G8wmCY2LtPg#fight=10&type=damage-done&target=52&source=9

 

I'm really enjoying demonology, I don't know much about the spec, haven't played it since tbc, but enjoying struggling and learning.  I feel I have a great grasp on destruction and can play it 75-100k above demonology, but it's boring as hell and will be using it for siegecraft.  I don't feel like our group is really struggling with content, we are a mix of new raiders (myself) old experienced players that have been playing for months (the +580 ilevel mage for example).  If damage felt like the issue I would go destro.

 

On the topic of demonology aoe burst, my thought process was:

 

1. spread corruption while tank picks up adds

2. pop DS + 2xshadowflames + pop into meta

3.  pop immolation aura and spam void ray

4.  If chaos wave Cd comes up let it fly

 

I didn't realize how shitty immolation aura damage is along with void ray.  I don't feel the bats will live long enough for doom ticks but they live long enough for +4 corruption ticks.

 

I'm not even sure how many ticks of doom we get in 60 sec without haste buffs to be honest.

[Cardio33 3]

  Watching a Mage beat a Demo and Destro lock on bats makes me cry on the inside.  Whoop his ass next week. 

I'll take him to the woodshed next week.  That little pointy hat wizard.  

[Cardio33 3]

Couple random questions for more experienced warlocks.  How would you rank the 3 specs in terms of:

 

 

Short fight single target dps and long term single target dps?

 

 

I feel afflic is obviously best for multi target where you can keep dots rolling (protectors/dark shaman) and destro is great for burst and sustained aoe (galakras).

 

 

Also did you guys notice a scaling difference between the 3 specs moving from 570 to 585 ilevel?

[Zagam 1,982]

Short term - Affliction > Demo = Destro

Long term - Destro > Demo = Affliction

 

In terms of growth of item level, they all scale incredibly well because they all prioritize Mastery, which scales linearly and infinitely.  The other variances in growth are negligible.

[Cardio33 3]

Update:

 

Everything has been going well and we conquered Throk in less than 15 attempts.  Got him down 3 weeks in a row now and starting progression on Siegecrafter.

 

We decided to have me (lock, 576 ilevel) try to solo odd belts.  Any recommendations?  I've been able to solo the first pull rather easily but it has been a bit more difficult when Dark Soul isn't up.

[Phenax 12]

Update:

 

Everything has been going well and we conquered Throk in less than 15 attempts.  Got him down 3 weeks in a row now and starting progression on Siegecrafter.

 

We decided to have me (lock, 576 ilevel) try to solo odd belts.  Any recommendations?  I've been able to solo the first pull rather easily but it has been a bit more difficult when Dark Soul isn't up.

My recommendation is to convince your raid leader that putting a warlock on belts on heroic is a bad idea. You are much better suited towards decimating mines and have to cast a long spell in order to put real damage on the belt. Hunters, melee (esp. rogues) have a much easier time on belts because of personal cooldowns and mobility with respect to the belt.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Phenax

[Zagam 1,982]

Sometimes you have to put the best players on the belts to minimize attempts.  However, I warn you that if you try to compensate bad play with good players in bad roles, even if you get Siege down, Paragons will stomp on your faces and laugh as they slaughter those unable to get mechanics.

 

Follow Phenax's suggestion and get the melee in a rotating order with a Hunter.  If you have 1 Hunter, Hunter always on belt and 2 melee swap with him.  Soloing belts is kinda tough, especially since Warlocks only have one CD.  Soloing without Dark Soul would be very difficult.

[Cardio33 3]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'm confident we have a strong group of players however, we struggle with a less than ideal comp.

Tanks - blood DK, prot pal

Healers - hpal, disc (has resto Druid alt)

Dps - enh sham, arc Mage, frost DK, unholy DK, me (afflic/destro/demon), boomer

Who would you guys recommend for belts?

[Zagam 1,982]

Eww. 

 

Um...Going to want Arcane Mage, Boomkin, and Destro to handle ground mechanics of Empowered Missiles, Mines, etc.  Melee are simply unable to reliably do mines in 10 man.  Since the Boomkin is the weakest, I'd send up...

 

Odd belts = Frost DK + Boomkin

Even belts = Enhancement + UH DK

 

DKs can alternate CDs and Boomkin can do what it can, but will mostly be support.  You're going to have a tough time with this comp on Siegecrafter, and you're going to have an AWFUL time on Paragons with it.  3x melee in 10 man is a recipe for pain in the dick.

[Cardio33 3]

Yea it's pretty terrible hah.

The frost dk boosted a hunter to 90 but he's still pushing 500 ilevel so mind of useless hah. We've been carrying him front end.

Any other recommendations to balance out our current comp?

[Zagam 1,982]

Get rid of the DKs. 

 

If they are going to melee, Rogue or Warrior.  Hard to gear up someone, so swapping isn't really an option.  In 10 man, it is absolutely bring the class, not the player until you get certain levels of gear.  Certain classes remove complexity from fights with properly utilized toolkits.  DKs bring nothing.  I don't even think their AoE grip is useful outside of Sha of Pride's Reflection adds.  Rogues bring Smokebomb and Warriors bring Vig, banners, and Rallying Cry.  AMZ isn't even noteworthy.   

 

If you can, swap both to ranged.  We run 2 melee, but we hardly ever use them on the same fight since we have a deeper roster.  I have a 15 man roster with 2 melee and you have 3 in a 10.