wow Jailer Attack Cutscene Showcases More of His Brilliance

[Starym 3,800]

 

There's a new cutscene on the 9.2 PTR from the Eternity's End story campaign before the raid, and it just adds to the narrative of the Jailer being the most generic villain of all time, both being behind everything that's ever happened since Warcraft 3 with super-genius level manipulations and plots, AND at the same time being the dumbest being alive in recent story developments.

The cutscene isn't a particularly important one but it continues the Sanctum of Domination finale trend of the Jailer basically doing his level best to lose, as he keeps making the stupidest decisions ever made (only rivaled by Bolvar's "hey let's bring this one thing the Jailer needs to his house, what could go wrong"). If you thought leaving Sylvanas (the literally only person in existence that knows your plans) with your enemies wasn't quite on the same level as plotting almost the entire history of Warcraft for your own gains, we get a nice little reminder of the Jailer's fluctuating brain power here:

When antagonists act like this, in typical Bond-villain/children's cartoon show fashion it just takes away from any feeling that we're actually doing or accomplishing anything with our actions as characters, since basically the only reason we ever won is due to the villain suddenly being a complete imbecile for no reason other than to let us win in the end, and it's getting really old.

Am I perhaps overreacting? What do you think of this cutscene and, more importantly, the Sanctum of Domination finale one?

[Frogspoison 63]

Making sure that their singlular trans character, of which the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't even know is trans, a "crucial lore character" is far more important then the actual lore itself, ofc.

Wish that was sarcasm, but that's exactly what I'm seeing.

[FelPlagued 13]

25 minutes ago, Frogspoison said:

Making sure that their singlular trans character, of which the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't even know is trans, a "crucial lore character" is far more important then the actual lore itself, ofc.

Wish that was sarcasm, but that's exactly what I'm seeing.

what are you even talking about? pelagos or the arbiter is literally brought up a whopping... 0 times in this entire article. 

 

also we see them a "crucial lore charecter" for all of 5 minutes so eh?

[Tenshinamy 10]

I do understand the frustration that is brought up on some players here by how the Jailer is the villian behind everything yadayada...but on the writing part of News here i guess it might be a bit better to be more neutral. Actually the community is full of hate and everyone is a professional critic to how things should be done and how they shouldn't.

But as a writer of those Posts and News...a bit more neutrality would not hurt. Times are hard enough, we do not need more hate, do we?

Maybe i am, again, alone with this Opinion and you are welcome to disagree, i just feel it is kind of hard to always read this hate
(yeah i know....i prob should go away and just not read it *rolling eyes*)

I will get eaten in minutes i guess

[Dejo93 1,023]

Compared to him, Doctor Evil looks like a genius mastermind

[Andser 34]

46 minutes ago, Tenshinamy said:

I do understand the frustration that is brought up on some players here by how the Jailer is the villian behind everything yadayada...but on the writing part of News here i guess it might be a bit better to be more neutral. Actually the community is full of hate and everyone is a professional critic to how things should be done and how they shouldn't.

But as a writer of those Posts and News...a bit more neutrality would not hurt. Times are hard enough, we do not need more hate, do we?

Maybe i am, again, alone with this Opinion and you are welcome to disagree, i just feel it is kind of hard to always read this hate
(yeah i know....i prob should go away and just not read it *rolling eyes*)

I will get eaten in minutes i guess

The post author is right to write what he wrote. If you want safe spaces go back to WoWhead where PC culture and censorship is the mainstream and your feelings won't get hurt.

 

4 hours ago, FelPlagued said:

what are you even talking about? pelagos or the arbiter is literally brought up a whopping... 0 times in this entire article. 

 

also we see them a "crucial lore charecter" for all of 5 minutes so eh?

You confirm what he said, it's a character no one gives a crap about and yet Activision pushed him as some super important one with his transformation. This really feels disingenuous as everyone sees the sole purpose of it was to push a trans character and had no real meaning regarding the lore development - why wasn't it Mograine? Draka? Ka'el? Some random goat from Ardenweald? or even Uther?

[Tenshinamy 10]

55 minutes ago, Andser said:

The post author is right to write what he wrote. If you want safe spaces go back to WoWhead where PC culture and censorship is the mainstream and your feelings won't get hurt.

My feelings aren't hurt, i do not know what you mean 🙂

[Liebanana 4]

6 hours ago, Frogspoison said:

Making sure that their singlular trans character, of which the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't even know is trans, a "crucial lore character" is far more important then the actual lore itself, ofc.

Wish that was sarcasm, but that's exactly what I'm seeing.

Wdym? Like whats the connection between these 2 facts??? If the lore its s*, it still be s* pelagos being trans or not. Literally the department developing the lore didnt decide about pelagos being trans. I feel like the bast majorit of wow players are literally republican grandpas and love to think that blizzard is pushing the lgtbq+ agenda down your throat, when  they are just trying to represent reality, I get that u don't go out much and that u are a cis het male so u think that what u got at home its all there is, but I swear thats not how the world is. Just grow up(mentally, bc I'm sure u are 30ish) I'm tired of seeing these kind of "harmless" comments (just bc u dont use bad words they are not harmless but u couldnt understand bc u ve never been a minority), can't u say that the lore is crap without saying nothing about pelagos being trans? I bet u can. Think about everyone that felt represented when they first saw a trans character, be critical if u wanna be critical but be also mature and a 21 century person.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Liebanana
bad words

[Liebanana 4]

1 hour ago, Andser said:

 

 

You confirm what he said, it's a character no one gives a crap about and yet Activision pushed him as some super important one with his transformation. This really feels disingenuous as everyone sees the sole purpose of it was to push a trans character and had no real meaning regarding the lore development - why wasn't it Mograine? Draka? Ka'el? Some random goat from Ardenweald? or even Uther?

U are saying it just now, why do u care the arbitrer being a trans character if we all don't give a f about who the new arbitrer is? It is just that u don't like trans ppl or what, bc litrly it doesnt matter who the arbiter is, u are saying that why not a random goat from ardenweald? thats how important the role of the arbiter is, so just let it be a trans guy holly jesus is it that hard for u ppl to just accept that not everyone feels represented by cis het males?

[Starym 3,800]

3 hours ago, Tenshinamy said:

I do understand the frustration that is brought up on some players here by how the Jailer is the villian behind everything yadayada...but on the writing part of News here i guess it might be a bit better to be more neutral. Actually the community is full of hate and everyone is a professional critic to how things should be done and how they shouldn't.

But as a writer of those Posts and News...a bit more neutrality would not hurt. Times are hard enough, we do not need more hate, do we?

Maybe i am, again, alone with this Opinion and you are welcome to disagree, i just feel it is kind of hard to always read this hate
(yeah i know....i prob should go away and just not read it *rolling eyes*)

I will get eaten in minutes i guess

There's no hate, there's just commentary of the situation we're in. Pretending it's all great on the story side is exactly how we'll get more bad stories. I still like the game and defend it plenty of times, but I have a big issue with the story and expressing that is the only way I know how to improve it from my position.

I get what you mean though with the negativity, but just doing positive stuff just because there's a lot of negativity isn't the answer either. IMO we need to express what we don't like and also what we do like so our game can become better.

And you should always express your opinion, I actually appreciate it, so thanks!

[Starym 3,800]

2 hours ago, Andser said:

The post author is right to write what he wrote. If you want safe spaces go back to WoWhead where PC culture and censorship is the mainstream and your feelings won't get hurt.

 

You confirm what he said, it's a character no one gives a crap about and yet Activision pushed him as some super important one with his transformation. This really feels disingenuous as everyone sees the sole purpose of it was to push a trans character and had no real meaning regarding the lore development - why wasn't it Mograine? Draka? Ka'el? Some random goat from Ardenweald? or even Uther?

I have to disagree here, I think Pelagos was a great choice for Arbiter considering his and the overall Shadowlands story. What's more it actually fits with the theme and is logical, as in he's new and inexperienced (but has seen all of the Shadowlands recently, in-game), and that's exactly why he should be the Arbiter, because all the old and experienced people messed it all up (the Archon, Kyrian etc). Of all the things the story did wrong this really isn't one of them IMO.

[Teufel 331]

57 minutes ago, Liebanana said:

U are saying it just now, why do u care the arbitrer being a trans character if we all don't give a f about who the new arbitrer is? It is just that u don't like trans ppl or what, bc litrly it doesnt matter who the arbiter is, u are saying that why not a random goat from ardenweald? thats how important the role of the arbiter is, so just let it be a trans guy holly jesus is it that hard for u ppl to just accept that not everyone feels represented by cis het males?

You're missing the point.

Who Arbiter is does matter because it is possible to develop existing characters with established histories and personalities by making them one - even shoving Sylvanas in would have some implications, because she'd be the centerpiece of the system she claimed to detest, an exquisite punishment. Not to mention we ruin one of the most iconic WoW artifacts for the Arbiter.

Shoving a noname who has no character, who has shown qualification whatsoever to be one, nor the strength of will to endure this job (which ultimately made Zovaal into the Jailer) is stupid as is. Doing so with a character whose only major defining trait is being LGBTQ+ is just another instance of "woke" culture insulting the modern writing.

So yeah, a goat would be better. Preferring Sika, personally, at least she is occasionally hillarious.

[Teufel 331]

8 hours ago, Starym said:

I have to disagree here, I think Pelagos was a great choice for Arbiter considering his and the overall Shadowlands story. What's more it actually fits with the theme and is logical, as in he's new and inexperienced (but has seen all of the Shadowlands recently, in-game), and that's exactly why he should be the Arbiter, because all the old and experienced people messed it all up (the Archon, Kyrian etc). Of all the things the story did wrong this really isn't one of them IMO.

Which story?

He knows literally nothing of Maldraxxi, he barely touched the cornerstones of Venthyr society, let alone the grim job they are supposed to be doing, and yay, he played pranks with fairies of Ardenweald, screw the great cycle and the sacrifices the Winter Queen made recently to keep her realm functioning. What else? Oh. Kyrian. "WORK TOGETHER, WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER". Very insightful, even the "New Path" 9.1 chapter has him do nothing to contribute to it. On top of it, there are countless other realms he didn't even know existed which need sorting. What makes him qualified for the role?

The Eternals were right to put the machine on the job, because it is a soultion that worked the entire time, the one "screwing up" was a (un)living, thinking individual.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Teufel

[SidonisAntares 290]

Everyone knows Blizzard has a Knaak for storytelling, it's their Golden child.

Seriously though, it's a video game not Kierkegaard, the days of grand storytelling in video games died with games like Xenogears.

[Liebanana 4]

20 minutes ago, Teufel said:

You're missing the point.

Who Arbiter is does matter because it is possible to develop existing characters with established histories and personalities by making them one - even shoving Sylvanas in would have some implications, because she'd be the centerpiece of the system she claimed to detest, an exquisite punishment. Not to mention we ruin one of the most iconic WoW artifacts for the Arbiter.

Shoving a noname who has no character, who has shown qualification whatsoever to be one, nor the strength of will to endure this job (which ultimately made Zovaal into the Jailer) is stupid as is. Doing so with a character whose only major defining trait is being LGBTQ+ is just another instance of "woke" culture insulting the modern writing.

So yeah, a goat would be better. Preferring Sika, personally, at least she is occasionally hillarious.

Not missing anything, my point is not to discuss if pelagos is a good choice for the arbiter taking into account the lore or the story line, u did that and I can agree with u in some points, there are a lot of others characters that would fit in that role better than pelagos. I can see that u are into the lore and the writing and u want it to make sense and I am not gonna argue nothing about that I respect it and maybe u are right and pelagos does not make sense being the arbiter, but the majority of ppl do not care that deeply about lore or the changes that blizzard does,  I am so tired of seeing that kind of comments in everything that blizzard does lgbtq+, sexism related I ve seen it in tracer being gay, the 2 night warriors being gay, the removal of toxic jokes from the game, the fact that u can now change genders in the barbershop and so on.. and I can assure u that the arguments that I ve seen are not anything like what u just exposed to us. Take care. 

[Kuarinofu 78]

Didn't feel like playing this expansion past the first two weeks so I've missed a lot. But this:

Quote

There's a new cutscene on the 9.2 PTR from the Eternity's End story campaign before the raid, and it just adds to the narrative of the Jailer being the most generic villain of all time, both being behind everything that's ever happened since Warcraft 3 with super-genius level manipulations and plots, AND at the same time being the dumbest being alive in recent story developments.

gave me a good laugh, thanks.

[Logarithm 40]

2 hours ago, Liebanana said:

Not missing anything, my point is not to discuss if pelagos is a good choice for the arbiter taking into account the lore or the story line, u did that and I can agree with u in some points, there are a lot of others characters that would fit in that role better than pelagos. I can see that u are into the lore and the writing and u want it to make sense and I am not gonna argue nothing about that I respect it and maybe u are right and pelagos does not make sense being the arbiter, but the majority of ppl do not care that deeply about lore or the changes that blizzard does,  I am so tired of seeing that kind of comments in everything that blizzard does lgbtq+, sexism related I ve seen it in tracer being gay, the 2 night warriors being gay, the removal of toxic jokes from the game, the fact that u can now change genders in the barbershop and so on.. and I can assure u that the arguments that I ve seen are not anything like what u just exposed to us. Take care. 

And some of us are tired of having that BS pushed down our throats at every turn. Stop letting 0.1% of the population control the narrative of everything.

[Arcling 898]

19 minutes ago, Logarithm said:

Stop letting 0.1% of the population control the narrative of everything.

It's actually more than that, also how is that population "controlling everything"? It's just acknowledging that they exist. Arguably, it could have been done better. Pelagos is just a minor character, he is barely present there and we likely won't see him again after this patch.

But what Jailer did there is a classic villain mistake. Overconfident, he's just letting his enemies go.

 

[Halock 156]

4 hours ago, Liebanana said:

I feel like the bast majorit of wow players are literally republican grandpas and love to think that blizzard is pushing the lgtbq+ agenda down your throat, when  they are just trying to represent reality, I get that u don't go out much 

Firstly, my old chap, you want to cut down the personal attacks. Arguing for goodness while using bitter words will undermine you. 

But your point --

Had I written the story, Pelagos nor anybody else would be trans. I am therefore probably a good, if more realistic, version of whoever you mean by republican grandpas.

I thought Pelagos' trans thing was done well. I liked it. I liked it because it was subtle. It almost worked within the setting. I didn't relate to it, but I was pleased for some people I know who I thought might.

But I dislike the fact he has become the arbiter. It's too massive a coincidence. It's too central a post. It moves it from subtle to wildly unsubtle. 

Meanwhile, although the base logic for it as a conclusion to his story work... It doesn't work excellently. It doesn't make me feel anything. It's kinda humdrum. And I think that magnifies the issue.

Had it been told really well I could have swallowed the extremely fortuitous coincidence that our first trans character has also happened to replace one of the central icons of SL, the lore-wise center. 

But it wasn't. So I struggle. Not because of any wild political reasons but just because it feels terribly suspiciously like outside motivations (and I don't care what they are!) have invaded the game's storytelling. 

And mushed an okay character in the process.

[Starym 3,800]

3 hours ago, Teufel said:

Which story?

He knows literally nothing of Maldraxxi, he barely touched the cornerstones of Venthyr society, let alone the grim job they are supposed to be doing, and yay, he played with faries of Ardenweald, screw the great cycle and sacrifices Winter Queen made recently. What else? Oh. Kyrian. "WORK TOGETHER, WE CAN DO THIS TOGETHER". Very insightful, even the "New Path" 9.1 chapter has him do nothing to contribute to it. On top of it, there are countless other realms he didn't even know existed which need sorting. What makes him qualified for the role?

The Eternals were right to put the machine on the job, because it is a soultion that worked the entire time, the one "screwing up" was a (un)living, thinking individual.

To me all that knowledge comes with the position and the power. It's the person behind the decisions that matters - and this is where I think Pelagos is a good choice because we had a lot of contact with him as players. Putting ANOTHER Azeroth character into a universal spot of power would just be dumb IMO (despite Uther being a better fit), as the "Azeroth is the center of everything" thing is getting old really fast.

Also, who the Arbiter is is the definition of irrelevant for the game going forward, so it's not like it'll ever come up again. I just think a new perspective in the role is good, because "the machine" wasn't really doing a good job since the afterlives are all kinds of messed up (which was the entire point of this expansion), so a change is good. That's just my opinion obviously, while the Jailer being a dumbass is a fact 😄

[Starym 3,800]

5 minutes ago, Halock said:

Firstly, my old chap, you want to cut down the personal attacks. Arguing for goodness while using bitter words will undermine you. 

But your point --

Had I written the story, Pelagos nor anybody else would be trans. I am therefore probably a good, if more realistic, version of whoever you mean by republican grandpas.

I thought Pelagos' trans thing was done well. I liked it. I liked it because it was subtle. It almost worked within the setting. I didn't relate to it, but I was pleased for some people I know who I thought might.

But I dislike the fact he has become the arbiter. It's too massive a coincidence. It's too central a post. It moves it from subtle to wildly unsubtle. 

Meanwhile, although the base logic for it as a conclusion to his story work... It doesn't work excellently. It doesn't make me feel anything. It's kinda humdrum. And I think that magnifies the issue.

Had it been told really well I could have swallowed the extremely fortuitous coincidence that our first trans character has also happened to replace one of the central icons of SL, the lore-wise center. 

But it wasn't. So I struggle. Not because of any wild political reasons but just because it feels terribly suspiciously like outside motivations (and I don't care what they are!) have invaded the game's storytelling. 

And mushed an okay character in the process.

An interesting perspective. To me it's the basic nature of games - there simply were not that many new characters introduced in the expansion that could fit the role. Theotar? Lady Moonberry? It really was basically Kleia, Pelagos or one of the Azeroth characters, there wasn't much choice there.

[darkgreenwax 412]

7 hours ago, Tenshinamy said:

I do understand the frustration that is brought up on some players here by how the Jailer is the villian behind everything yadayada...but on the writing part of News here i guess it might be a bit better to be more neutral. Actually the community is full of hate and everyone is a professional critic to how things should be done and how they shouldn't.

But as a writer of those Posts and News...a bit more neutrality would not hurt. Times are hard enough, we do not need more hate, do we?

Maybe i am, again, alone with this Opinion and you are welcome to disagree, i just feel it is kind of hard to always read this hate
(yeah i know....i prob should go away and just not read it *rolling eyes*)

I will get eaten in minutes i guess

Starym generally is quite neutral in my opinion. I LAUGHED at how un-neutral they were here, because it just shows not even they could hold back their frustration of this writing.

 

My warcraft heart is broken with how they've been writing everything for the past several years.

Also, the new writers have killed off beloved and rich characters, and unceremoniously discarded others into the trash, all for the sake of their weird direction or ego.

[Grumar 188]

4 hours ago, Starym said:

I have to disagree here, I think Pelagos was a great choice for Arbiter considering his and the overall Shadowlands story. What's more it actually fits with the theme and is logical, as in he's new and inexperienced (but has seen all of the Shadowlands recently, in-game), and that's exactly why he should be the Arbiter, because all the old and experienced people messed it all up (the Archon, Kyrian etc). Of all the things the story did wrong this really isn't one of them IMO.

Pelagos is actually a terrible choice, it reminds me of all the the end of Cats where the one cat who just wanted to belong and have friends got what she wanted just to be sent off and die.  Pelagic just went through a journey of self discovery (not that majority of player base would know that since his story was locked behind covs) just to be striped of who he was to become the Arbiter. Talk about a shaggy dog story. 

Also side note not sure why people keep calling him trans. He's a male character who thinks they are male. Past lives amount to nothing, I promise you Hindus and other religions do not consider themselves all trans based on past lives. 

[Teufel 331]

2 hours ago, Starym said:

I just think a new perspective in the role is good, because "the machine" wasn't really doing a good job since the afterlives are all kinds of messed up (which was the entire point of this expansion), so a change is good. That's just my opinion obviously, while the Jailer being a dumbass is a fact 

Wasn't it?

The only time the machine Arbiter made a mistake was Garrosh, who doesn't feel repentant even after all his time in Revendreth, which would mean his destination was the Maw. And even then older Venthyr claim that soul being absolved of their sins takes eons, so they might just have not get a proper go at him. You are also shown, which is the case with Mograine, that the machine Arbiter is capable of nuanced approach.

All the "messed up afterlives" you've mentioned are also the result of Zovaal's and Denathrius' machinations which followed the Arbiter breaking because suddenly it was forced to process a soul of a Titan, which not only had no place in the Shadowlands, but the Arbiter wasn't built for it in the first place.

But it's intended job? It was doing just fine for millenia, and it never had a chance of suffering a mental breakdown... which Pelagos has, for he does not show the qualities of being willful and impartial, to add to his lack of understanding of the Shadowlands' many worlds, which are essential for what Arbiter should be doing.

Ps: for the record, even Lady Moonberry in a chapter of 9.1 had a better go of being an actual Venthyr, which just further diminishes Pelagos' interaction with other covenants.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Teufel

[FelPlagued 13]

9 hours ago, Andser said:

The post author is right to write what he wrote. If you want safe spaces go back to WoWhead where PC culture and censorship is the mainstream and your feelings won't get hurt.

 

You confirm what he said, it's a character no one gives a crap about and yet Activision pushed him as some super important one with his transformation. This really feels disingenuous as everyone sees the sole purpose of it was to push a trans character and had no real meaning regarding the lore development - why wasn't it Mograine? Draka? Ka'el? Some random goat from Ardenweald? or even Uther?

Because all of them would literally be the worst arbiter ever, all of them are bias. also they did not push him as "super important with his transformation" there is 1 post about it cause people asked.

also the arbiter could be literally anyone, but they have to be unbias, and pelagos is. plus the fact who cares if its "a super important charecter or not" cause its literally a charecter we see for 5 minutes after the transformation and then never again.

 

also its funny cause im pretty sure pelagos gets more screentime in the shadowlands then mograine, so i mean...

 

46 minutes ago, Teufel said:

Wasn't it?

The only time the machine Arbiter made a mistake was Garrosh, who doesn't feel repentant even after all his time in Revendreth, which would mean his destination was the Maw. And even then older Venthyr claim that soul being absolved of their sins takes eons, so they might just have not get a proper go at him. You are also shown, which is the case with Mograine, that the machine Arbiter is capable of nuanced approach.

All the "messed up afterlives" you've mentioned are also the result of Zovaal's and Denathrius' machinations which followed the Arbiter breaking because suddenly it was forced to process a soul of a Titan, which not only had no place in the Shadowlands, but the Arbiter wasn't built for it in the first place.

But it's intended job? It was doing just fine for millenia, and it never had a chance of suffering a mental breakdown... which Pelagos has, for he does not show the qualities of being willful and impartial, to add to his lack of understanding of the Shadowlands' many worlds, which are essential for what Arbiter should be doing.

Ps: for the record, even Lady Moonberry in a chapter of 9.1 had a better go of being an actual Venthyr, which just further diminishes Pelagos' interaction with other covenants.

no one goes directly to the maw, so the arbiter did not make a mistake. anyone evil goes to revendreth, there they are given 1 final chance for redemption. so no it was not the arbiter messing up.

Edited January 6, 2022 by FelPlagued