Retribution. How does your DPS compare?

[xero 1]

Hey guys, 

I'm currently progressing through Heroic SoO on Spoils at the moment and last night on Malkorok one of our Officers whispered me saying he wanted more DPS from me. Now I am never near the bottom of the charts in DPS, I always prioritise mechanics and staying alive over pure DPS, then as I see it, I am only not doing enough DPS if we hit an enrage timer or healers get overrun because they're OOM. 

Anyway. I have been looking at the realistic DPS charts on Noxxic and I notice retribution paladins are very near the bottom at the highest gear levels. The problem seems to be that this guy: 

 

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Spookiê/simple

 

is complaining that I am always behind him on malkorok but not other bosses (I am always top on Spoils attempts and Galakras and many others. 

Here is my Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/twilights-hammer/Xero/simple

 

I'll be able to post logs next reset. What I am looking for ideally is how does your DPS compare against other specs of the same ilvl? And when I post logs I would love some constructive criticism to see if I can improve my DPS. 

 

Thanks,

Xero

Edited July 14, 2014 by xero

[Oreoxd 165]

Depending on the fight, I can be near the top, or near the middle/bottom. But on a lot of fights a hunter will beat you because it's a hunter, and hunter's have amazing dps this patch/expansion. Not often am I the very lowest, and I even beat our other ret, but I by no means would ask another ret to step up in dps unless I know for a fact he's the reason we're losing to timers.

 

A ret paladin is not played to be the top dps. A ret paladin, as it is currently, is played to push yourself to the limits of the tools you've been given, with the expectation that you will be outdone by all other classes. But not giving up. A lot of people don't know this, but I haven't been playing ret hardcore for very long, I always played for fun and to just enjoy myself. I only recently (since mop came out) became a progression raider as a ret. And I've gone from being in the dark and struggling even against the lowest dps in lfr, to being a respected player of my class, and a source of knowledge. 

 

If anyone tells you the expect more dps from you, currently, you can tell them this. Ret is not a high dps class, and ret will struggle against most other people in the raids, but I am doing my best, and getting help from others, just bear with me. 

 

I will take a look at your logs and help you as best as I can. But, and I'm not saying this just for you, or that you feel this way, if you feel down because other classes are doing better than you, don't. It's not always something you can control.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Auriel

[AMonkeyCourier 2]

Higher output doesn't only make fights easier if you're hitting the enrage timer or healers are going OOM. It massively reduces the potential for mistakes from everyone in the raid.

[xero 1]

Sure, I get that it helps with being less burden on everyone else if the boss does quicker, but again, I wouldn't say my dps is so low it causes a problem.

I'm not down about looking bad next to other classes, I expect to be a little lower as a ret, but the fact I can chain two hand of sacrifices on the tank soloing blood frenzy, the fact I can keep my own shield at green after soaking puddles with selfless healer, or emergency heal someone else when low, freedom on myself when adds are slowing me so I can still get to puddles, bubble and speed of light to get orbs during breath.... It's the utility of the class I love. And I feel I'm being unfairly judged because of playing my class as utility, while not doing as much dps as other classes. (But not far off).

As I said before I'm consistently top on fights that suit my class like galakras and spoils, and some others.

[Oreoxd 165]

Ret excels at what it does is utility, if your officers can see that, then that's what matters, if you need to show them then do that. I'm sure others in your guild aren't performing optimal if you're hitting enrage, it's never one person. But just show us the logs when you get a chance. 

 

Mastering ret, a balance between maximizing utility and dps, will take a long time.

[xero 1]

Someone in the guild has been uploading logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/324891/ I should be on every heroic raid in the guild under character name Xero  

Thanks for looking into it Auriel.

 

Also just to clear confusion: We've never been near an enrage timer and only time DPS has been an issue is clearing the second spoils room (which I am top DPS in most of the time)

 

Edit: On Dark Shamans I am the third tank and there will be a few Malkorok attempts where I'm tanking too.

Edited July 14, 2014 by xero

[sexybeast 3]

Im no ret pro but I do talk with the rets in my guild alot (us palas have to stick together and all that!) But one thing I would say is that the glyph of mass exorcism is a waste on malk as it is, in reality, a single target fight. Yes the add (or adds in 25man) need to die however in reality being able to use judgment/exorsism when your soaking a pool will help your dps.

A huntard turning around and saying that your above him in most fights is, in all honesty, a bad hunter. We currently stack 5 hunters in my guild as they are just op atm. He is able to soak all the pools, be smashed in the air, and clear all the orbs in the blood phase (assuming you dont stack up) whilst dpsing the boss meanwhile your 40 yards away from the boss bubbled and clearing orbs.

Every fight this tier since we have been on farm our hunters are beating our rets.

[xero 1]

I switched in mass ex for the spoils fight. On malk I run Templar, sacrifice and double jeaopardy

[Gwenymph 414]

I know what I'm about to post does not answer your question directly.  I just want to reiterate something that I'm sure you know but maybe others in your guild hierarchy may lose sight of is to compare your dps against others of the same class and spec. From there find the ones that are in similar gear and use the same fight tactics.  Raidbots has the comparebot tool if you are not using WCL which will show you their movement strategy and provide you with a more precise look at where others in similar circumstances are pulling away from you.  Comparing a Ret you run w/ and taking into account their utility is very important and looks to be already covered! 

 

GL w/ Spoils!

 

Edit: Switch to using WCL when you start running your own logs and enable Advanced Combat Logging

[Fouton 266]

A huntard turning around and saying that your above him in most fights is, in all honesty, a bad hunter. We currently stack 5 hunters in my guild as they are just op atm. He is able to soak all the pools, be smashed in the air, and clear all the orbs in the blood phase (assuming you dont stack up) whilst dpsing the boss meanwhile your 40 yards away from the boss bubbled and clearing orbs.

Every fight this tier since we have been on farm our hunters are beating our rets.

 

As blunt as this is, it's directly on the point. Hunter's are extremely good, and they should be walloping rets on Malk. The biggest thing that upsets me about this is that the hunter you are talking about is BM, which is a single-target based hunter. Malkorok is one of his best fights, in fact only two specs have averaged better DPS according to http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Malkorok/10H/100/14/60/default/

 

Overall I'd say the difference in your DPS is about right, though you probably can do more than that. However, due to the logs being from worldoflogs instead of warcraftlogs, I can't tell exactly where the loss is coming from. Your armory looks correct as well, so I can't say there's any visible room for improvement. It could just be RNG that gave him an edge or you a disadvantage overall, but you two are about on par.

 

I don't see him beating you on other fights, but thats exactly how it should be. He's doing great, you're doing good, the rest of your raid, especially that warlock, concerns me. His ilvl is only 569, but he does so little DPS overall. I'd recommend sending him over to our warlock section to set him straight.

[Elro 47]

I don't see him beating you on other fights, but thats exactly how it should be. He's doing great, you're doing good, the rest of your raid, especially that warlock, concerns me. His ilvl is only 569, but he does so little DPS overall. I'd recommend sending him over to our warlock section to set him straight.

This, so much. I think your raid leader(s) should first concern themselves with boosting the dps performance of the lowest dps players, before coming after you. Those of us in the Warlock section would be happy to help, if you can direct him to us. And preferably have logs through Warcraftlogs, we're picky people :P

[xero 1]

Spoils down first try with me in the raid. Top DPS with 265k :) Will post logs later but I'm afraid it's the other guy that's doing it on world of logs again. I only joined late on in the raid so I didn't think I'd be getting logs and didn't do it myself.

[Geoda 253]

Grats! Now time to wrestle T-Rex! Have fun ;)

[Oreoxd 165]

Looking at the logs your guild as a whole seems to have absurdly low dps, with the honest exception being you and spookie. That's just from my opinion, I've never ever seen a ret be top 2 on nazgrim. Now idk how 10m works so that could just be me but your ranged dps seems to be struggling.

[xero 1]

After trying to explain my situation and feelings of how I was happy to always try to improve,but didn't feel I was doing anything wrong, I didn't feel I got my message across. After tonight's raid I informed them I'd be leaving.

[Oreoxd 165]

Well I wish you luck in finding a new guild! I know there are a bunch who would gladly take someone like you in as you are a decent ret and you understand the mechanics of your class.

[Fouton 266]

If only you were US :P

[xero 1]

Thanks guys!

Unfortunately there is an abundance of retribution paladins on my server and the majority of heroic guilds have stopped raiding. I think mythic being 20 person only will kill off a lot and others will merge. I have found a guild, but there are tons of players here and I may not get a spot in any raids.

I'll get Warcraft logs up and running and start a separate thread once I have some logs to show. Thanks again guys!